Persecution of Religious Minorities In Islamic Countries

Re: # 356
"never knew her as FG"

I named her that! Every other school in Islamabad is named after her: FG Sir Syed College, FG Boys High School etc. Poor Jamal Shah is now PNCA Executive Director, and says that 'nude art was a creation of senior artist Naseem Hafiz Qazi, which was put on display on a temporary basis. However, he denied its unacceptability by the public.'

See #798 at http://www.chowk.com/interacts/13955/1/0/224 for details!

"youngest brother of the abducted Ambassador to Kabul"

Maybe they were trying to kill the brother of the 'evidence'!

Now, on my next trip to H.K. I will have to send 'those' sperm samples (from the flat) to the lab and get my hands on irrefutable evidence of great-going.

Then, I can, I can, I can, well.....do nothing but laugh about it!

#372 Posted by tahir,

LoL ... the author of that article is my cousin .... no further please ....

Re: # 355
"I am referring to the owners of...C..."

Mr.86,

Is naming the 'greats' forbidden? Which ones are these at http://www.chowk.com/articles/6442

One might learn how to play the the sitar, the other may wish to embrace Isalm. I can help them achieve greater heights--through 'rooh ki ghiza' and a glass of Rooh Afza!

Dr. Watson, could you pass me that magical Yahoo People Search tool?

#366 Posted by tahmed32

#364 zeemax: so now, in order to align what you are saying with urstruly, you are contradicting what you said earlier about taliban destroying the girls school because women's education is against their culture!!

Not at all. I just hadn't thought of that. Urstruly did and i agree it was another factor.

Remember the girls college across the street from Jamia Hafsa which was taken over by SSG? Did you forget Sir?

Again I say folks' memories are short.

Re: # 368; urstruly sahib

I just saw your post when I was about to head off to bed (its late where I live).

My issues were not simply those of the apparent differences between the two. It was more in the context of a political Islamic State and the logistics involved in the day to day running of such a state.

You have rightly commented that the differences between the two sects are perhaps less in terms of the core belief and more so in political terms; makes one wonder about an Islamic state with a sizeable representation from both sects. One example would be Iraq; more close to home perhaps Pakistan as well.

I'll no doubt think about this, as I am sure you will too. If you'd be kind enough, we can continue this discussion in 'dribs and drabs' here and there. I don't think it is fair to confine this only to this board. Also, I'll take your advice and read up more on the subject in question too.

I thank you again for you time sir.

Kind regards.

#365 Posted by tahmed32

#363 zeemax: you mean what urstruly says about soldiers hiding in that girls school is correct.

Not hiding, but taking them over as accomodation.

... and that you are correct in saying "pathan culture" calls for keeping girls out of school.

The curriculum changed in 2005. Pushtuns did not accept that curriculum in Government run schools.

in fact, in #359 urstruly contradicts what you say in #363 when he says "These schools were operating for years and the same jahils were sending their girls to those schools".

Yes. See above.

Seems to me you both agree only on one thing - that the taliban should rule Pakistan.

Not at all. But Taliban are people too, and they must be given the right on how to educate their girls. Are you going to decide how they must? Who gave you that right?

akcheema:

about shia sunni differences:

If you are serious about finding about the true nature of differences (if you can call them so, I would recommend reading the book written by Shaheed-e-Islam Moulana Yousaf Ludhianwi, titled "Ikhtilaf-e-Ummat aur Sirat-ul-Mustaqeem". This 576 page book is a comprehensive account of different so called sects in Islam and their mutual differences including shias and sunnis.

It is not possible to do justice with the subject in a short post; but in short the nature of shia sunni differences is:

1. Political difference that arose due to Ali's (RA) caliphate; murder of third caliph Uthman (RA) by rebels and inaction of Ali(RA) to bring them to justice. (I do not think that it was his fault, since he was in a catch 22 situation).

2. The issue of heirarchy - the shi'an-e-Ali (the friends of Ali) always contended that the political leadership of Muslims should always be by someone from the family of Holy prophet (pbuh)' specifically from the family of Ali (RA). The Sunnis contend that since Holy Prophet (pbuh) did not appoint his successor; therefore it must be left upon popular vote to decide.

3. The spiritual leadership of Muslims according to Shias should always be among the same as described in point number 3; which for Sunnis is akin to Roman Catholic Popery. According to Sunnis, since, Holy Prophet (pbuh) did not specifically appoint an Aaron (pbuh) to his Moses (pbuh) self, therefore, there should be no concept of "religious ledaership". Every Muslim has a direct connection to God and does not need a pope like intercession.

4. Interpretational differences.

Propbably about 95% of interpretation s of Qura'n and Ahadith are same or similar between the two., however, they dispute on the authenticity of the chain of a narration of hadith. For shias all those narrators who were against Ali (RA) in the battle against Ali for the Qisas of blood of Uthman (RA) are liars. This really pains Sunnis, because it is against the common sense. When both belive a certain hadith to be true, but creating dispute over the authenticity of narrators and hence hadith itself defies all logic and modicum of decency and truthfulness. The 5% disputed ones are those interpretaions that Shia interpret to reinforce their political and heirarcichal issue as described above.

5. The fifth and most contentious issue of differences of all is that Shias as an indoctrinated religious practice condemn in no uncertain terms all those Companions of Holy Prophet (pbuh) who sided against Ali (RA) in the dispute above. Many of these companions are those whom Holy prophet (pbuh) during his life declared as going to heaven. The Qura'nic edict, in no uncertain terms, declares all companions of Holy prophet (pbuh) as the one who were rightly guided and had blessing of Allah.

Come to think of it, it is impossible for an ordinary Muslim to think falsely about any of prophet's companions, even if he is a shia. The religious orthodoxy in shias whish is akin to Roman Catholic Popery reinforces this hatered thru a cult like indoctrination. Hence we have that Maatams, and rona peetna that is a signature mark of shias. These are nothing but cult practices.

So cheema:

If you look at my post below where I summarised the set of beliefs that constitute a Muslim you will see that there is no difference between Sunnis and Shias. The difference between Shias and Sunnis is basically that of political in nature and that of bad manners.

urstruly/zeemax: i have to go - but rest assured that if Paksitanis will not be enslaved by a rogue general, they will not be enslaved by rogue mullahs either.

So - either join the Chief Justice and the civil society of Pakistan in fighting to put power with the people, or else join the rogues who seek to take this power away from them on one pretext ("Supreme National Interest", like musharraf) or another ("Islamic State", like maudoodiites). Please dont play games like Zardari by trying to be too clever.

#364 zeemax: so now, in order to align what you are saying with urstruly, you are contradicting what you said earlier about taliban destroying the girls school because women's education is against their culture!!

#363 zeemax: you mean what urstruly says about soldiers hiding in that girls school is correct. and that you are correct in saying "pathan culture" calls for keeping girls out of school.

in fact, in #359 urstruly contradicts what you say in #363 when he says "These schools were operating for years and the same jahils were sending their girls to those schools".

Seems to me you both agree only on one thing - that the taliban should rule Pakistan.

...contd ... #363,

tahmed do you remember the riot that started the Fellujah massacres in Iraq? It was over US marines taking over a girls school. Urstruly is right that Pakistan army was doing the same.

Problem is, disappointingly, people have short memories and do not co-relate past events with present ones.

#360 Posted by tahmed32,

zeemax: So we agree on the reason the taliban destroyed the school- namely, in their "culture" they dont want to see girls getting educated. btw, Urstruly (see my post #359 below) likes to believe otherwise.

Both are right. Me, as well as Urstruly. Both reasons came into play.

Have you heard that Pink Floyd song "We don't want no education, we don't want no mind control"? (Though it is nowhere close to Pink Floyd's best ... and far from my favorites). The thought may interest you.

#361 urstruly: Your post is good soap opera..but it still does not change the fact that even the taliban never claimed what you are claiming in their defense (that there were Pakistani military hiding in that girls school they destroyed).

Re: # 359

ah pahleez. These were the same jahils who let those schools establish in the first place. These schools were operating for years and the same jahils were sending their girls to those schools, until an army of kaffirs, zindeeques, and their local mercenaries attacked them. Propaganda is cheap and it is for your foreign masters to scare the shit out of their pants and tell them what kind of monsters they are up against. These people are my people; I have lived among them; I know them more than any propagandist.

zeemax: So we agree on the reason the taliban destroyed the school- namely, in their "culture" they dont want to see girls getting educated. btw, Urstruly (see my post #359 below) likes to believe otherwise.

Contrary to the impression you may have, I am quite familiar with this jehaliyat that is excused as "pathan culture".

This is not "pathan culture", but rather the culture of all primitive people - I know of a gentleman who started an NGO that has opened hundreds of girls schools in remote areas in the panjab. And he told me how initially people were suspicious of their girls coming to school, and would actually send a male member of the household to stand and watch what the girls were being taught. That was 10 years ago. Today he tells me that they are no longer suspicious, and in fact the demand for new girls schools in other villages exceeds his capacity to supply them.

Similarly, a friend who is from a village near Kohat, told me how people have realized the benefits of education and there is now even a coeducational intermediate college in his district. The pathan elite send their daughters to some of the best girls schools in the panjab. Even the baluch tribals send their sons to the west for education. They all know the value of education!

I have myself seen in many countries - bangladesh, pakistan, indonesia, east africa - the joy and pride of girls from poor families who have started attending school. To destroy girls schools that in the name of "tribal culture" may be excusable for the ignorant foot soldiers of the taliban who is an animal in his thinking to begin with, but is in fact the cruelest way I can think of to keep a people enslaved!!

Urstruly #319: you say that you are certain there were pakistan military hiding in that girls school in Swat and that is why the taliban destroyed that school. There is no factual basis for your certainty (even the mullahs never claimed what you are claiming!! and what about the degree college that they also destroyed??).

If you really care for ordinary people in Pakistan, you should not turn a blind eye to the obvious!! And the obvious is that these are jahils for whom education is anathema. The same kind of jahils who kept muslims from getting education in the 19th century, declared Sir Syed Ahmed a kafir, and because of whom muslims in the subcontinent were left behind. The same jahils who have given musharraf the excuse to remain in illegal power until 2007 when the lawyers and human rights activists showed the world that the alternative to musharraf was not a madman with access to a nuclear bomb - instead it was honorable men who were prepared to sacrifice their careers rather than join the dictator in enriching themselves at the expense of the nation.