Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State

Re: # 148
NiKKamayG
Your only remedy if it works is available from Roto Rooter since the drains are overly clogged which is forcing you to use other avenues to spew what you should be spewing from the exits nature has designed to keep you sane.
Under your present conditions I cant think of discussing any of your ideas since due to the consequences of the back up you are downright stinky and not presentable.
Would not even consider you for slavery even if you paid your cost out of pocket. Go back to hiding in your hole.

Re: # 145
IJuber...

Ans: When you debate, you should not bother about hurting. If you keep faith on your drug addicted father, do it make your father innocent?
Love for the land and its culture do not conflict with democracy. It strengthens democracy. Your arab slavery is basically root of all these problems.
In the earlier post, I have already told the source of secularism. It was to isolate "faith" from civil administration. More precisely, Church will not be source of any administrative power.
Your deep rooted arab slavery, that also from mediaval (called as dark period) age, will not allow you to create a functional democracy in the muslim majority state of Pakistan. Turkey survived due to closeness to Europe. Rest of the muslim countries has shown miserable record in participatory democracy.

Re: # 139
What would one understand or state about Secularism or Democracy when s/he is pre-occupied with hinduvta in principle, when one claims to be secular but feels at liberty to inflict indignities on other's faith, how in any manner such an individual can even be trusted with his/her definition of the word secular let alone it's roots?
NKG take some lessons in carrying a conversation before you go to the next step, if you began to run before you learn to walk properly you are prone to get hurt bad, bad enough to lose any ability to walk again.
Those who carry a malaise against other faiths don't qualify for anything equal to democracy, and those who live in a glass castle don't throw stones at others.
You are therefore admonished not to address matters that are beyond your level of intellect, i.e. mind your own business. Those who have a faith do not humiliate other's faith.

Re: # 142
Tahir sahab a complete definition of mis-firing is posted for NKG hope the mughalizaat have not flown all the way to the top floor due to malfunction of his elevator and perhaps he will get his clogged drains cleaned and restored on a timely basis just in case.
Otherwise even the world famous Roto Rooter may not be able to restore his back-up depending on the stage of ailment that presents evidence of being terminal.

Re: # 140
Same difference NKG, if you believe that inflicting insults on those holy to others solves any problems then you are talking about Indian Politics not as meant to be but as being practiced.
Unless it is your second nature to use your mouth for natural actions that should use other passages provided by nature, what can anyone say on such a distressed condition, other than, put your diaper where your mouth is.
In as much as rhetorical statements are concerned I can only pray that God gives you the sense to stay clean as God is the only entity that can guide misguided and astray.

Re: # 135
Mr. Echo Boom,

Please clarify your comments for the benefit of those whose IQ is lower than the average temperature in Toronto during winter nights.

Regards.

Re: # 135
Mr. Echo Boom,

Please clarify your comments for the benefit of those whose IQ is lower than the average winter teperature in Toronto.

Regards.

Re: # 139
NGK, you're mis-firing again! Don't you have a loving Pushpa in your life who'd gladly see to it that you waste yourself completely?

Think of your deceased pita ji or mata ji's troubled souls in 'svarga' listening to your tirades against Isalm.

Turn away from 'narkh' murakh balak...

#137 Posted by akcheema on May 25, 2008 7:27:41 pm
Re: # 136; NangaPir
"The national wars are labeled as religious conflicts."

''I thought it was the other way around''

You missed the point. You have every right to presume. The conflicts are labelled according to their benefits to the one who labels them. They are nationalist in Ireland though we know it is Catholic vs. protestant. However, if tomorrow there is difference between UK and USA then USA will label it religious and UK will label it nationalists. Now my being suffering from religious fervor or Pakistani, I am proud of what I am. Thanks for introducing me to myself.

#139
To
ijuber not Tahir...

Rashid...

Yes, widows were deeeply exploited before Muhammed...

...and he was married to a lady who inherited the entire property of her father and married at least twice, before marrying to Muhammed at the age of 40....

Re: # 95
Tahir...
Secularism does not mean equal treatment for all faiths. The term evolved in UK to separate authority of Church from civil administration.
The primary role of religion is to provide moral/spiritual guidance to people. It should not enter into administrative matters.
Islam itself is a dirty political concept (not good one like Democracy) based on cheating, coercion, destruction etc...which Muhammed was quite expert at.
A spiritual leader convinces through his words. He doesn't need to pick up sword and kill couple of people such that others submit to "Allahs will", otherwise they will suffer the same fate. Successful extortion gangs follow similar modus operandi. And this cheating etc.. made Muhammed,a ragpicker in childhood, a rich person with multiple wives at ripe age....
Islamic secularism people are experiencing in Pakistan, Malayasia, Saudi Arabia very well; with its secular Sharia law and Sharia court etc...

Arjun,BJ:
The partition of India was supposed to be. When a section of society gets infected with mediaval, middle east barbarism, the best way to live without trouble is, ampute it. That is the way cancer is treated for secondary organs (even in some cases people ampute hand or leg).
India is big enough and great enough to survive and grow without couple of areas. Unfortunately, neither Nehru nor Gandhi wanted to study the nature of this cancer and neither they had faith/confidence on India. If you study the background of these two leaders, they were brought up in such areas (Gandhi from Gujrat, and Nehru from Kashmir and UP), that had witnessed the maximum onslaught from islamists/barbarians. Entire civilisation(education, art & culture, literature...) was destroyed completely for couple of centuries. In UP ( for that matter, entire cow belt), the language got distorted to 3/4 urdooo and no quality literature for 4-5 centuties (at least). What you expect from such people or leaders of such people? Confident enough to bounce back!!!!
The ancestors of the same people, who have composed great literature (Vishnu Sharma-PanchaTantra, Som Dev Bhatta- Katha Sarit Sagar, Kalidasa-Avigyan Sakuntalam..., Bana Bhatta-Kadambari...), were busy writing Allohpanishad and distorting Atharva Veda. No fundemantal work. And poor Tulsidas, distorted Ramayana and even tried to protray Valmiki as robber!!!
I wish UP and entire cow belt should have been fortunate enough, the way Bengal was shaped after British kicked out moslems. We have got luminaries in all fields during this period (mid 19th century to mid to late 20th century...)
(literature - Bankim Chandra Chattyopadhyay, Rabindranath Tagore, Sarat Chandra Chattyopadhyay,Bibhuti Bhusan Bandyopadhyay...
Art- Nandalala Bose, Ram Kinkar Baize, Abanindranath Tagore...
Science-J C Bose, Meghnad Saha, Satyendranath Bose, P C Roy...
Medicine- U N Brahmachari
Industry- Biren Mukherjee (IISCO)
Social Activist-Rammohan Roy, Vivekananda...)

At.#121.
Although the vexing issue of marriage of Ayisha to Muhammad given in so called ‘traditions’ should be a non- issue to the learned on this forum in the context of Quran, it may be of help to conceder the TREND (historically given) set by him in all his marriages to the widows and disadvantaged women in some way or other in the society.
Therefore Dr Shabir Ahmad’s (http://ourbeacon.com)findings and statements that this person Ayisha was NOT Abu Bakar’s daughter but his widowed sister Ayisha!
Was ‘Muhammad the man’ practicing socially accepted practice of the time, in order to give societal protection and "dignity" to the women he is supposed to have married?
Then it is logical to accept baby Ayisha to be a ‘blip’ on the trend chart and a fabricated drama at that...…well so that?:
Khey gulshan kaa karobaar chaley!
Some thing to think about depends upon one take on Hadis!
Rashid

Re: # 136; NangaPir
"The national wars are labeled as religious conflicts."

I thought it was the other way around.....Northern Ireland Catholics were euphemistically labelled as "Nationalists" and the Unionist Protestants as "Loyalists" to avoid religious labels.

I think you have been the victim of the same disease that has infested the muslim mind and now we are reaping the results of centuries of stagnation and fermentation....blame the other...the colonial...the west...the american....the jew....the mirzaee....the hindu......infinitum

Nothing, absolutely nothing, will change ever unless we first look at ourselves and our interactions with those we class as "others".....otherwise, since we have nothing else to offer humanity except for our more than generaous and disproportionately high birth rates, we may as well NOT exist as an entity

Good day to all of you...I have no patience for nonsense

The national wars are labeled as religious conflicts. There is Polisario struggle, Ireland, Columbia, Etta in Spain, you just name it. There is also in Sudan but there is oil so it not considered religious. The problem is the understanding between eastern VALUES and western POLITICS (Poly Tics). People in the east trust. Do you know that in Caribbean Brits issued licenses to pirates to use them against Spanish? They launched war against China since China refused to import opium from them. It was that China was not opening its Market. Indians never learnt. Brits East India company bought all the rice in Orrisa as business. Farmers were so naïve that they trusted Brits promise. Then Brits wanted twice the price. Look in your record. 3 million perish due to starvation. It was not Christnity but imperialism. Roosevelt was awarded Nobel peace price but in fact he conspired with Japan to trade Korea for the Philippines. Even in Iraq Chalabi was accused of spying for Iran and he is in official post. Muqtadda Saddar was accused of killing but negotiations are going on with him. They do not honor as there is no term like honor in their politics. In fact they have cultivated people who are fighting against honor starting with our Begharet army. Having said that “some people” of east are so shallow and so ignorant that they do not know history which is RADAR for their analysis. Mullahs, though they have a lot of other sins in their account, never ever supported Indian partition except those who were nurtured by Brits. For example, Atta Ullah Shah Bokari's the leader of Aehrar, famous speeches were "I will kiss the hoofs of that pig that will ruin the imperialist crop. I will kiss the mouth of that rabid dog who will bit the colonizers". I believe Hindus are at least more acceptable to a Muslim than a pig and a rabid dog. Maulana Hassart was given rigorous imprisonment and his famous verse:
Hai Chukki key Mushqat be Jari aur Hurfe Sukhan Be
Turfa Tamasha hai Hassret key Tabiat Ka.
Maulana Obid Ullah Sindi was de facto communist but not like those who welcomed partition like Sajjad Zaheer of India Communist Party. Bengal Reshmi Rumal Therik and Wahibi Tahreeks were all for national liberations. Subash Chandra Bose second in command was Muslim and they wanted national liberation. So Indian division was in fact division of land and of Muslims. But Brits made it a Muslim Nationalism versus Hindu domination issue and these entire modern IntelKetual toe the same line. Today these mullahs are incorrectly blamed for something they did not do. But this is the Western politics “get the job done”. However this is conscious dishonesty and betrayal with historical facts. That is one reason all these religious forces are rethinking their stand and preparing for Ghezwae Hind. Unless you have some insight into historical materialism it is very difficult to understand how these things are moved around. Today these movements are no different than Christian or Tamil movement but no one gives them religious color. In fact Tamils are mainly Hindus and Sinhalese are others (Mainly Buddhists but also some Christian and Muslim). Even Kurds against Turkey are not termed religious because Turkey is in NATO. But Achenes in Indonesia are sometimes called fundamentalist others times nationalist depends who is ruling Jakarta. I hope this elaborated explanation is sufficient - worth my efforts.

Tahir & NangaPir


A bit belated acknowledgement but better late....

Tahir & NangaPir, you are truly a very valuable asset here...and Nangapir, even when I do not agree with your anti- stances, I look forward to them..because you are consistent and unwavering in your belief.

P.S: Please continue to share your knowledge & insight even if it seemingly "hurts" muslims & Islam....The rest here do not matter & as they are unwitting partcipants and know not what awaits them ahead.


This has always been the pattern before they swallow it hook, line & sinker.
" Jin ko matlab naheeN hotaa voh satatay bhhee naheeN"
Those who want no truck with it, never venture near & bait the ones they "dislike". :) :)

Re: # 124
Then follow YOUR thing and avoid useless commentary on Islam.

Someday you'll find the truth for yourself if you keep looking.

Shaanti.