Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice

Re: # 251

And mind you ... I only came in after Harish mian claimed that he had never heard of Aga Khan's palace being the place of Gandhi's incarceration which it certainly was.

masanamuthu,

Like I said earlier... there was no debate on how many times Gandhi was arrested or had to pay a fine.

The discussion here was about conditions and treatment in incarceration. I knew of two incarcerations and they were in brilliant conditions ... for example the Aga Khan's palace... a full fledge doctor on call ... acres of land etc...

If you know of other incarcerations - which you certainly do- please enlighten us on the conditions of these incarcerations? Was Gandhi in solitary confinement like ZAB and Mandela? Was he tortured? Kicked around? Buggered?

I do acknowledge that you came up with one other bonafide incarceration

Oh.. comeon dude, I just provided the list. He has been arrested and jailed so many times. I provided the link too. you can go ahead and see for yourself.

May I remind again that this site is to discuss Miss Fatima Bhutto and has nothing whatsoever to do with Jinnah or Gandhi.

Thank you

Re: # 247

I do acknowledge that you came up with one other bonafide incarceration ... but you still didn't give the name of the palace he was put up in... or was it the entire village in Yerdava?

Re: # 246

I was not aware that we were arguing about the number of times he was jailed but the conditions of his jail.

The reason I brought up the two I knew of was to ask if there were any other and what facilities were they ... were they better or worse than Aga Khan's palace in Pune.

So far no one has managed to answer that simple question.

Well..

you mean like how you got to know that Gandhi was arrested and jailed more than twice today.

we'll see.

Re: # 244

It takes time for knowledge to have the trickle down effect. Your children's children have a chance.

Gandhi has also to a large extent been exposed for what he is- a fraud and a charlatan... but as an old Indian friend wrote to me a few days ago:


Looks like I missed it. Anyways, it doesn't matter.

Re: # 241

"Manto darling, neither Gandhiji nor Jinnah need any defending. They were what they were and the world (by and large) sees them for what they were."

Jinnah certainly does not. Not even his worst critics accuse him of dishonesty... most consider him the most incorruptible leader of the subcontinent. As time has gone by and hidden facts have come out historians have revised the old nationalist mythologies by India and Pakistan.

Gandhi has also to a large extent been exposed for what he is- a fraud and a charlatan... but as an old Indian friend wrote to me a few days ago:


I guess the thinking lot among us Indians know
that the G-man was a charlatan. But it is not accpeted
publicly 'cos the G-man is a good publicity tool for
the GoI. And I am sure for all your hostility to the
G-man you will appreciate that the G-man is a better
product to sell to the aam junta than the J-man. It is
easy to sell poverty, bramcharya, imprisonment and all
that jazz. But the farsightedness of the J-man's 8/11
speech, the Lahore Resolution and the rest of his work
is not easy to explain to a layman.


"and no, not any half-truths, because those are also untruths"

That basically throws you out of the window.


May you find peace and have the courage to denounce Gandhi and his works.

neither Gandhiji nor Jinnah need any defending. They were what they were and the world (by and large) sees them for what they were.

That's right.

Both of them are good leaders and ended up doing tremendous good for what is known as "India" today.

Re: # 236

[You stop lying about Jinnah. I'll stop telling the truth about Gandhi.]

Manto darling, neither Gandhiji nor Jinnah need any defending. They were what they were and the world (by and large) sees them for what they were.

You should stick to speaking the truth only (and no, not any half-truths, because those are also untruths) in my view, but not for the purpose of "defending" anybody. You should do so in order to establish your own credibility among your peers and among Pakistani intelligentsia. And you should do so for an even more important reason - to find peace within yourself.

Just to remind all that the topic of discussion is actually Miss Fatima Bhutto. I have a great deal of respect for her and would like to share this article from an Indian newspaper on Miss Bhutto:

India and Pakistan are 'siblings': Fatima Bhutto
Islamabad (PTI): Describing India and Pakistan as "siblings", slain former Pakistani premier Benazir Bhutto's fiery niece Fatima Bhutto said there was more fortune in peace between the "two sister nations" than war.

"We have, like siblings, more in common than we appreciate and our differences, though vast, are not impossible to overcome. They are barely visible," wrote 25-year-old Fatima, who was in Jaipur recently to attend a literary event.

"Our countries, India and Pakistan, are sister nations. We are one half of each genetically and physically," she said.

"There is more fortune in peace between our two countries than war will ever bring us. We must build bridges between our people, not bombs.

"Siblings, though stymied by rivalries at times and shadowed by each other's ghosts, are still siblings. They have to protect each other in order to survive. We can't help our pasts, but we have an amazing opportunity to push for radical change in our futures," she wrote in her weekly column in The News.

Fatima said she had gone to India "to speak on Pakistan and to be a conduit for a message other than what we see reported on our country every day hate".

"I wanted to speak for what a majority of Pakistanis truly want, inside our borders and outside -- peace."

On her first visit to India two years ago with her best friend Sabeen, Fatima says she stared in horror when her friend revealed that she was from Pakistan to a shopkeeper.

Re: # 238

That is a novel idea... in order to defend the racist casteist bigot Gandhi... lets abuse the one man (Jinnah) who had been calling for racial equality for all people when Gandhi was still calling black people savages and subhuman.

But you are right... your very logic is contradictory - a complete contradiction in terms.

Re: # 235
[if you were an honest man you would just admit that you are a horrible liar.]

Manto dear, you are not in your best form today! :(
If I am an honest man (which I am), then of course, I am not a "horrible liar", so why would you expect me to say that?! It would be a contradiction in terms.

I have no doubt however, that had Jinnah been alive, he would honestly admit that he made a horrible mistake!

"Gandhiji was simply ahead of the times in some of these ideas."

Absolutely. Adolf Hitler hadn't even written Mein Kempf yet and Gandhi had all the same arguments when Hitler was still a failed artist.