Myths Surrounding the Lawyer’s Movement

One possible reason Pakistan is always struggling for democracy could be it like the struggle more than democracy.

mukhtar.ameer writes "attempts of using theories based on western class struggles and institutional hierarchies to explain social conditions and outcomes in Pakistan"

Please explain where I have done that, I require specific quotes from my article, and tell us which theories specifically. Regarding institutional analysis, you don't even understand what a social institution is so how can you grasp any analysis based on it? Only a damn fool will deny the existance of institutions while studying any society. Regarding social classes are you denying that social classes exist in this country? You are talking through your a$$ and you know it...

mukhtaar ameer writes "Then you come back to the country, and like to drop photocopied philosophies in front of those who know nothing better. ..."

Once again the fool claims that the people of this country are ignorant. They are smarter than you think fool and I do not drop any "philosophies", just the events from which I draw logical (and not dishonest PPP=Musharraf) conclusions. In fact one of my very vocal opponents here Mr. tahmed claims that what I write is known to every rickshaw driver, that is how close to the pulse of the common conscious public my points come and they recognize the truth when they hear it because they have lived it and they live it on a daily basis, not some a-hole claiming that an PMA graduate, with a gun pointed at their face knows what is best for them and every time he comes he leaves them in worse shape that when he found them....

Here were my points that everyone understood but this fool deliberately tried to mask because they revealed his BS for all to see:

i) He claims that a vote for PPP was a vote for Musharraf, this is absolute BS because:

1.If people wanted to vote for Musharraf they had a clearer choice for which they didn't vote
2. The deal of BB/Musharraf was dead as was BB, the voting was held after the murder of BB for which the people blamed the current admn of Musharraf and was not held when the wheeling and dealing was going on.
3. 34 million voters do not constitute a scientific sample using which (actually manipulating which as this fool did with the PPP) you can pontificate on national support. Scientific polls, which overwhelmingly show how hated Musharraf is in this country, do that much more accurately
4. Given the manipulation preceding the elections, and the use of state resources and the butchering of the opposition's leader no election results (with or without manipulation of the sort of this fool including the PPP in the pro musharraf camp) can every be taken as "proof" of anything

Regarding his support of dictatorship using quotes of others regarding democracy, I have already presented my points challenging that not one of which he has answered. This person is a military implant who is trying to legitimize military rule and dictatorship in Pakistan, he is so pathetic in his reasoning and so dishonest in his narrative that only spineless immoral fools will take him seriously, his hypocrisy, writing an entire article in support of the dictator but not owning up to it, claiming not be elitist while calling for the rule of the many (collective ignorance his quote states) by the few, his claim that he understand sampling and surveys yet making the totally outrageous claim when I suggest polls are more accurate are glaring examples for all to see... As far as mills is concerned, Wallersteins, World Systems Analysis, (something much more extensive, empirical and fact based than anything this fool or his philosophers making big claims about the ignorance of the common man can come up with) was based in part on the unfinished work by Mills on comparative sociology where employing those concepts he successfully studied social structures that were not country specific and quite successfully I must add. Just a look at my articles on the Pakistan political situation employing an institutional analysis tells any fool that the sociological imagination can get a deeper more accurate grasp than the garbage this fool has produced....

Ameer Mukhtar writes "There is little to respond to in your posts...when you actually make a point, I will let you know what I think..."

You wouldn't know a point if it hit you in your face fool. You write a whole article in support of Musharraf and then claim that that wasn't your point! go figure

Then he writes "As things stand, given your poor grasp of social statistics, and with your feeble, incoherent and often contradictory attempts of using theories based on western class struggles and institutional hierarchies..."

At least be original in your claims. Where was I "poor" in social statistics, on the other hand your claim that the 34 million are better generalizing material than scientific polls based on scientific samples stands out as a glaring example of how poor you are in understanding social statistics and survey methods. Regarding theories I use, understanding social structure based on historical/empirical precident of this country is not "a theory" and please explain to us where the "contradiction" is because like your article your baseless allegations are just hot air.

Then he writes "You people go and study abroad, only to emerge critical of the very system that produces you. Then you come back to the country, and like to drop photocopied philosophies in front of those who know nothing better..."

There is nothing wrong in going to study abroad, it broadens the perspective and more than any "theories" that your type copy paste as quotes from dead philosophers, my type learn more from the experience, first hand than any theories as such. There is nothing "photocopied" that I have ever dropped unlike your drivel against democracy that was copy-pasted, pure xerox which you didn't even attempt to explain using your fifth grade comprehension abilities. My articles are original, my thought is non mainstream and if I can use concepts of the social sciences to understand this society which I do very well, there is nothing wrong or anti intellectual in that. Given by what I've produced, not a bit of which you have been able to counter with arguments (and copy pasted quotes from white men is no proof of either your intellect or your maturity), experienced people well aware with the politics and dynamics of this society will tell you such (just as the American professors will tell you that my grasp of their society is better than the natives). Finally sociological concepts are not society specific, comparative sociology can very well grasp the dynamics behind the international system, which in the current setup are quite visible for all to see except dumb f'cks like you who lie shamelessly in their so called articles and then try to cover that up with their ignorance about statistics and hide their motivations behind their articles in a most hypocritical manner.

Re: # 47

Skeptical

The point is not what happened to the PPP in urban Punjab. Other than me trying to show my weak grasp of social statistics, my pro dictatorship leanings, my ambitions of being an anti-people peon, the point seemed to be heading to debating what the PPP won their votes on the basis of.

And while I respect the fact that you do not agree with my assessment (or lack thereof according to some posts), I remain unconvinced that people voted the way they did, to remove Musharraf from power.

Re: # 61

Correction:

apnay mum mein doob kar paja suragh-e-zindagi
tu agar mera nahi bunta na bun...apna toh bun

Re: # 57

masadi, some Iqbal for you--may help:

apnay mum mein doob kar paya paja suragh-e-zindagi
tu agar mera nahi bunta na bun...apna toh bun

Re: # 56

Masadi,

There is little to respond to in your posts...when you actually make a point, I will let you know what I think.

As things stand, given your poor grasp of social statistics, and with your feeble, incoherent and often contradictory attempts of using theories based on western class struggles and institutional hierarchies to explain social conditions and outcomes in Pakistan, you are, at best, an intellectual nightmare for some neanderthals that form part of your online posse. At worst, the word runt comes to mind, and worse still, a runt with no originality.

I know your type very well. You people go and study abroad, only to emerge critical of the very system that produces you. Then you come back to the country, and like to drop photocopied philosophies in front of those who know nothing better. Your safest bet is to go to the U.S., and use what you have learned to may be try and explain what happened in Detroit in the 1930s. But that’s about the best you could do.

No, wait, there something else you should credit yourself for: you have so far managed to avoid being institutionalized. But be warned, if you continue down the line you are going, the day is not far when you could end up sitting a dark corner, rocking back and forth; or if things don’t turn out as bad, you could be a fantastic guest for Dr Phil.

Re: # 58

Nasah, Zardari is a corrupt vile individual. And Aitzaz Ahsan probably even more morally bankrupt that him, since he is a "lawyer". He defended Zardari, Bhutto and Nusrat in nearly all corruption cases, which he now says are justified, only to then turn around because it is now more politically expedient to do so.

One lawyer who is not a myth but a legend:

"Aitzaz blasts Asif, says most graft charges justified

By Masood Haider

NEW YORK, June 1: Barrister Aitzaz Ahsan, President of Supreme Court Bar Association and a leader of Pakistan People’s Party, has severely criticised his party’s co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari for dragging his feet on restoration of the judiciary because he “doesn’t want independent judges”.

In a highly volatile and extensive interview with the New York Times magazine (Ahsan was on the cover of the magazine), he said that most charges of corruption against Ms Benazir Bhutto and Mr Asif Ali Zardari were justified. It may be mentioned that Barrister Ahsan was the minister of interior in the first government of Benazir Bhutto.

The author of the article, James Traub, writes: “I asked him (Mr Ahsan) how many of the allegations of corruption he believed were justified.

“Most of them,” Mr Ahsan said, after a moment’s reflection.

“The type of expenses that she had and he has are not from sources of income that can be lawfully explained and accounted for.”

In the interview which was conducted over a week, James Traub said that Mr Ahsan recognised that the PPP was itself a feudal and only marginally democratic body led by a figure accused of corruption and violence.

Mr Ahsan, who defended both Ms Benazir Bhutto and Mr Zardari in 14 cases, told Times that the charges of “corruption against both” and in Mr Zardari’s case also of “kidnapping, ransom and murder”, were justified.

“Ahsan”, said the interviewer, “is almost recklessly outspoken about PPP leaders, even though they are his own political patrons.

He speaks admiringly of Benazir Bhutto’s courage and steadfastness but also points out with disdain that she viewed herself as the PPP’s ‘life chairperson’. And he does not bother to conceal his dim view of Zardari.”(dawn)

In #56 "...and then claiming that I've overdone it with the Mills "wobbly" approach while not understanding at all anything about Mills, I'm sure he hasn't studied a single one of his works with any level of concentration, and even if he tried he couldn't have grasped them, they are written at a much higher level than the fifth-grade level of comprehension he possesses...

mukhtar ameer writes "PS: you’re not a freemason are you? "

As we all can see the fool cannot respond to anything I came up with against his manipulation regarding the PPP, regarding the benefits of dictatorship or the interpretation of data, rather he choose to pick on my "sentence construction"- (and I can guarantee you my command of the english language, just as of social research methodology is much superior to his) terming me a "free mason" in his secret-society conspiracy (not knowing what function secret-soceities of the elite serve- and conspiracy is not one of them, rather its social cohesion, worldview congruence, class consciousness and separation etc), and then claiming that I've overdone it with the Mills "wobbly" approach while not understanding at all anything about Mills, I'm sure he hasn't studied a single one of his works with any level of concentration.

Fool, I'm not a free mason but I'm certainly the worst intellectual nightmare of dictators and their peons like you. A person like yourself with the comprehension level of a fifth grader, the infantile understanding of social issues, a non existant grasp of social statistics and their interpretation, the downright dishonest rendition befitting a GWB, and the hypocrisy of a Tony Blair in his peace-mission to Palestine, is in NO POSITION to edit anything I write.....

Re: # 48

Masadi, indeed your work is out for the many to see, and I can see how well it is appreciated as well.

Look, I think you may have overdone it with this Mills-inspired ‘wobbly’ approach – this is not working for you. Anyway, I can understand that sending me your work for editing may dent your visions of self grandeur, I have another suggestion. Please consider a basic book in sentence construction and paragraphing. I think then you may be able to move your work past appreciation by the few. May be the generally oppressed Pakistani public will then be able to see the vision you possess – for if you are unable to articulate it, your messianic message will be lost forever in the folds of the internet.

PS: you’re not a freemason are you?

masadi:

i am ana. i keep forgetting i do not log in as ana anymore. :)

In #51

This person (Ameer Mukhtar) has the reading comprehension of a fifth grader (as is usual with military peons), after supporting the rule of the many by the very few and deriding democracy using BS "authoritative" quotes by those who have as little clue about social structure as he does about social statistics, he says he is not "elitist". After supporting Musharraf as the gist of his article he says it was not written in his support. Then he calls someone supporting the people and their right of self-determination a "bigot" while deriding them all as ignorant (in one of his quotes) he claims to be free of bigotry. The guy is a glaring dimwit hypocrite. (Ana)Please make it a principle never to apologize to such a-holes, learn to keep and maintain your stand when it is based on honesty and justice or these spineless morons will eat you alive...