Zardari and the Politics of Defiance

hamidm: of course, of course. ha! ha!

Pakistani people zindabad!
Hamidm and his lota heroes..er..um..whatever..

#66 Posted by ijaz_gul o
Hp,
I agree. we are on the difficult 50% now."

well Ijaz we are moving forward.The progress has been made in the last couple of months.

I think Zaradri's move to the lash out at Mush takes it to 60% but still a long way in Pakistan's context.

We don't know what the US pov is. The WOT is the the primary factor and no one should forget that.

.... this is all dramay bazee ...

nobody - the badmash zardari, the droopy eyed cj, zia's step-son nawaz, musharaf the dictator wannabe, the lawyers and the unwashed masses - nobody, is doing what they are doing because they believe in democracy or in the constitution ..... the constitution is like that other book that these idiots claim to hold holy - it is not worth the paper it is written on ... maybe they should have written it on palm leaves so that we could blame it on the goats ....

........ everyone is doing it for their own personal reasons - power, money, absolute power, hatred for their adversary, revenge ..... all of them are driven by their ego and lust for power and they are willing to throw abdul and his ten starving children under the bus as long as they can get what they want ..... zardari is playing games with nawaz and nawaz is playing games with the lawyers; mushy is playing games with zardari and the army is playing him for a fool ...... none of these bast*#ds deserve to rule ..... and the pakis don't deserve a state of their own .........

.... maybe that is why negroponte is on his way .... it might not be a bad idea for general petreus to move into the army house (if he can get mushy to vacate it) ....... if that happens, my ancestral house will be in the green zone with baitullah mehsud lobbing mortars at me ...... it is a lost cause, to hell with third-world politics !..... it is time to have a drink and settle down to watch the wings beat the crap out of the penguins ....

#62 Posted by zeemax
"And, I further suspect you have scant respect for a constitution as well. I think you're a shallow person and not really loyal to Pakistan."

That is just childish and tells me you don't know squat abt the issues here.

A common person like me does not break the constitution. Common folks don't deal with the constitution on every day bases. The people who have the responsibility to adhere to the constitution are the state institutions like the parliament, the Judiciary, and the Army.

I can keep respecting the constitution but the army doesn't and flaunts it and amends it via unconstitutional means.

You got to read some political science and also read something abt what the constitution is. You must think it is some penal code that every chabriwala worries abt.

with ignorant defenders like you, the constitution has no prays!

Hp,
I agree. we are on the difficult 50% now.

#55 Posted by tahmed32

For the first time, the country is learning abt respecting the laws and the constitution. On Nov 3, majority of Judges in all courts did not resign. The majority in only the SC did and replacements were found fairly quickly from the lawyers community.

When the Judiciary itself does not respect the constitution, don't expect that the politicians and others would do it.

Imo, the part of respecting the constitution is better than just the CJ restoration. But since he was the reason the army shredded the constitution, he should be restored along with the constitution.

The longer this movement goes, the better it would be. Bring more people out on the street so that the army knows the people of Pakistan would defend the constitution.
That would ensure that the army respects the constitution in future.

Mushy is unimportant. It is the army you are fighting against. You are fighting an institution and not some nincompoop who lives in the army house. You need to understand the difference.

Otherwise it is like Bhains kay agay been...

Zee,
How is repeal of 58(2)b stop the army from another coup? Didn't mush ignore it in 1999?

zeemax: no need for personal insults. people can arrive at their own judgements based on what someone writes. and in HPs case, he demonstrates respect for Pakistani people's rights that is either explicitly rejected (in case of Hamidm and others who think Pakistanis are fit only to be slaves) or implicitly (which includes you when you call for mullah rule-by-the-gun in Pakistan).

#61 ijazgul: possible. or more likely it is pressure to back off from any deal-making with taliban (since mush himself made such deals too).

#58 Posted by HP,

Yaar HP Saeen I didn't miss your point that a constituition is just a book unless people abide by it. But I suspect you forgot who wrote the constitution in the first place if not the people.

What realpolitik are you talking about? All realpolitik will be swept away in an instant if constitution is not upheld.

And, I further suspect you have scant respect for a constitution as well. I think you're a shallow person and not really loyal to Pakistan.

What are you loyal to?

Most Likely. pressure on military. Mush is on the way to be ditched.
Most dangerous. Pressure on Military to back Mush.
Common. Zardari, a pawn.
You know the joke when the mirasi said to the lambardar. should I take it as a yes or no. Thats It.

#56 Posted by ijaz_gul

Actually Ijaz people have read this too. What is the linkage in your opinion?

ijazgul: instead of blanketing this board with lengthy cuts and pastes, why dont you simply state the point you are trying to make? what is your point?

Zee
You have gone off the deep end so hard you're going to be wandering in the wildness of irrelevancy for the next forty years.

I am not going to explain it to you that when no one respects the constitution, it becomes a book. This is one constitution that every tom, dick, and harry has amended at will to fit their view of the country.

If the CJ had respected it, he would have gone off the bench a long time ago. If Nawaz had respected it he would have not stayed with Zia until the end.

The only difference now is that the Lawyers are pressing for the respect. Before that they too were glad to take the positions in various courts under the army. The CJ was not upholding the constitution when he went against mushy.
He did not ask Mushy to resign. He looked at some cases to confront him.

His removal was an unconstitutional act. That is what the whole movement abt. Since his removal was politically motivate, he will be restored by political methods.

This is not abt taliban banging their way in to the caves. That same approach wouldn't do any good.
Now drink some cold water or perhaps aabe zamzam and get off the rocker!

zeemax: Let us pray that this brave man, the CJ, lives to see the rule of law restored in Pakistan.

Read this too and see the linkages.

APCs denied to Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: The American government is said to have stopped Germany to contract a multi-million dollar deal for the sale of 800 Armoured personnel carriers (APCs) to the Pakistan army, after getting annoyed with the recent moves of the new political government in Islamabad to strike peace deals with the Taliban in the tribal areas.

Earlier, the American state department which actually hold the license for the manufacturing and sale of these APCs, being prepared in Germany as a part of defence agreement, had granted the permission to the Germany authorities to provide these APCs to Pakistan. But, now all of sudden, it has reviewed its decision. The sources said, the only consideration behind this move was none other than the recent peace deals in the tribal areas of Pakistan, as the Americans were found to be annoyed with the new political government at Islamabad.

This recent move was actually being seen as an attempt to put pressure on the new leadership of the Pakistan army so that the peace deals should not be contracted with Taliban elements in the tribal and other parts of the NWFP.

Earlier, this deal was put on the hold because of the European Union concerns after President General Æ Pervez Musharraf had staged a mini coup on November 3, 2007 after he sacked the judges and suspended the basic human rights. These drastic steps against the political forces and the judges had greatly provoked the European union to slap sanctions on the supply of the military equipments to Pakistan.

But, sources said, now after the return of the new political government in Islamabad, the German government again gave indication to contract the supply of the APCs, but this time, it is said the Americans have stopped the Germany to supply the APC.

When contacted by The News, Brig Æ Samson Simon confirmed that there were certain EU sanction because of action taken on November 3. “All the military trading of the equipments have been put on hold including the deal for the 800 APC�, said Brig Simon who is the director of Eastern Management Services, a business partner of the German supplier Fahrzeugwerk Gmbh (FWW)—-confirmed. He, however, refused to make any comment that now this time the Americans were behind the sudden move to block the supply of these 800 modified APCs for their use in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

Earlier, sources said, the German army had abandoned using these APCs after upgrading their own war weapons after handing over those used weapons to the North bound official Armies and repair and overhaul workshops in the Northern of Germany. The Germany was ready to sell these second hand weapons to different countries after their upgradation including Pakistan. After initial negotiations, the Germans were ready to provide these modified weapons to the Pakistan army, so that it could fight in the tribal areas more effectively. Although, the Pakistan was also using its locally manufactured APCs in the tribal areas, but they were said to be not as effective as these German could be because of their standards and quality. These APCs were being sold at very cheap price, if compared to their actual prices of these items, so that Pakistan could effectively fight against the terrorists in the tribal areas of the country.

Earlier, in December 2007, the FWW had got obtained the export license from the Germany as well from the US state department was granted for Pakistan. But, all of sudden, the government of Pakistan was informed that because of the political situation in Pakistan arising out of the judicial crises, the firm was asked to postpone the release of APCs for the next two months. Before the suspension in the supply of these APCs, the Germans were offerings these weapons after repair and maintenance in the workshops of Germany. These APCs were to be modernize with engine, gearbox, braking and stearing system and suspension system and protection according to the requirements of the tribal areas.

But, sources said now the German firm has been told that it should not further negotiate the deal as the Americans who actually hold the licenses for the sale of the APCs were not ready for their immediate supply.

When contacted by The News, ISPR Major General Athar Abbas said, he did not have any idea about this proposed deal. He said, however, Pakistan was using the locally manufactured APCs in the tribal areas where the police and FC were given these machines to fight against the local fighters. He said he would check with the concerned officials and return the call to give the full version.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print3.asp?id=14884

HP: the constitution may only be a piece of paper.

but the protections it provides to the citizen are something else - it is the constitution that ensures that the police cannot enter a house and "disappear" a father, a son, or anyone else. it is the constitution that ensures that a minister or president or MNA cannot enrich himself without fear of being checked by any organ of the government.

and the people of Pakistan have been educated on this by the civil society of Pakistan. Which, unlike those who seek to keep the Pakistani enslaved for one excuse or another ("Supreme National Interest", "Islamic State") , does not believe in a caste system of kshatriyas (military) or brahmins (mullahs) and the untouchables (Hamidm's "unwashed masses") who are fit only to be ruled.