Zardari and the Politics of Defiance

Tahmed,
Hamidm is right. Ghairat has no place in politics. It is a personal trait and as archaic as the tribalism and Feudalism.
Politics is all about making compromises, and moving forward.
Please don't equate Ghairt with Honor. A politician can make honorable compromises but he will have to kill his adversaries if he relied on Ghairat to resolve political issues.

Zardari has no choice. He will come down to make some deals with the lawyers. He is dropping hints and making threats that is how it is done.

Now he is asking Musharaf to go but he is actually telling Nawaz and the Lawyers that he will get the president, if they would give him something to work with. He is baiting not only the Lawyers but the army too.
I hope we see a counter offer from Nawaz. And that is how the whole thing will proceed. As long as Lawyers and Nawaz can keep pressure up, they can get more.

The Judges issue is a political issue and will be resolved by politics and not by being pious or ghairatmand.
Off to breakfast...

Re: # 20

tahmed,

... there was a time when i used to feel offended if someone mistook me for an indian (god knows why anyone would do that ), but now i let it pass .... you don't realize how much it hurts me to be mistaken for a uncircumcised vegetarian but the alternative is even worse .....

..... by the way, you will be happy to know that zardari just decalared that he never accepted musharraf as a constitutional president but he wants to work with the president !!! .... now show me a nigerian who can top that and they are masters at crookery ......

hamidm: maybe you should get a nose job from michael jackson's plastic surgeon and get a proper lota spout instead of this low-class pakistani nose. and then get the skin whitened from michael jackson's dermatologist.

It wont improve your looks, but at least you wont feel like you are a pakistani anymore.

Re: # 18

oh shut up, tahmed! ...

you sienile old fool, it is not about musharraf or zardari or the droopy eyed judge or you - all of you are the same ........... spineless, characterless, self-serving, myopic, venal, corrupt and whiney creatures ! ......... if it weren't for the fact the i would have to pay 120 dollars for a paki visa i would tear up my nicop card ..... but a 120 bucks is a 120 bucks and being a paki i cannot do things just based on principle - as they say, "ghairat tey aanee jaanee cheez ay, banday non dheeth hona chaida !"

hamidm: and btw, we already have enough individuals berating the people of Pakistan - from india of course (given the psychiatric issues associated with being slaves for a thousand years to muslims with the added affects of the caste system and other twists provided by their "culture" or lack thereof), from arab worshippers like echoboom.

so, while your insults to the Pakistani people on behalf of Musharraf and his lotas are no doubt well-meant, but we really have enough people doing that for you alread on chowk.

so hamidm, what do you think happened? was there a lota in your shajra-e-nasab, or are you a post-natal lota? in other words, is the problem "genetic" as you believe, or is it due to "nurture".

and if post-natal, how exactly were the results achieved - was it a special kindergarten school to raise lotas, or was it the example provided by role models in your family?

Nikhat #9 When a man does not respect his own words (as in case of Musharraf and Zardari), there is no need to waste time listening to what they have to say.

Just hope that they will do the right thing because the people of Pakistan leave them no choice.

hamidm: "by and large the people of pakistan do not have any character and on top of that they are stupid and ignorant "

and you are certainly a good example.

Re: # 1 I wonder mr.Z is drawing wrong conclusions regarding electricity and food. Sure lawyers and activist may have sufficient of both but there is anguish in amoung nonlawyer hardworking people. People will be happy if he takes care of president ( dismisses him) but that will be pyratic victory. The basic problems still can demolish PPP or any party. Hope PPP does strategic way about food and electricity otherwise tactical moves against president can take them so far only. Hope he does not treat president badly as then his partners in Sindh MQM may not tolerate too long.
He took opportunity to give message to india which is most significan factor in life of pakistan for good or bad. It appears he is not interested in military confrontation on K and that is not good. No concession or control even partly to have say in occupied HK ( held kashmir) is coming forward from Indian side, so CBM measures are not worth. May be this central question of Kashmir will not be dewcided by talk it will be decided by steel and blood. But Z is doing fine as after taking care of president and then economic problems he will have to concentrate on army as army is getting weak due to reduction of its money and no new arm purchases are coming up except JF-17 from china , a joint coproduction. His post is not happy post as it is hard too many demands on him and he can not make everybody happy. He is having weak hand as economy is is dire state. Yester was black friday and even I feel pinch when you loose so much in equity markets in one day. People just stop buying shares. So instead of president removal helping KSE will be more helping people.
bUT HE HAS GOOD PLAN AND HAS DANGLED good things for India if they behave properly. He has assured Sindhi's of developing "thar coal fileds" ( Over Billion Tons deposits) as up to know gas and oil import lobbies had stopped development of these things. He was right in telling india he has enormous energy in Thar and he can supply energy to india and can reduce shortages in India and help to improve image of india in Muslim world and help them by providing iranian and turkmen gas from pars and Daulatabad fields. So his approach isd better to show india to come to reasonable deal on Kashmir so he can sell back to people here. About kashmir people have very strong feeling and people want to help liberation of kashmir short of nuclear war but if too long time it is not solved even nuclear option is possible and winable. Just now nobody want war at two fronts and that gives less resources devoted to kashmir. It is not econoimic question likeindian attitude of Baniyas its very emotional for awam and they are ready to any sacrifice it is problem of survival like original problem. It is not going any where with time.
Also this moody and S and P need to be warned by usa to have more reasonable evaluation ofeconomy as I have noted there are many american indian professionals working at strategic level who damage the creidt rating of pakistan. At least both agencies need to not allow indian ethinic / hindus and ask them to excuse them from their work as comflit of interest. Dr Shamsad is try best to shore up situation and has assured of coming of 3.5 billions soon from friendly countries to dampen dollars demand. With inflation reaching 17% officially state bank chioef has shown corouge to raise interest up by 150 basis points. Exceptional situation need exceptional treatment and hope KSE is back to normal as loss of awam in stock exchage is real and hurting.
THis president may go but problems will not go he is trying to help people but if people are ungrateful he will leave. But then mr. Z and NS will face real proble. Both are just making "president" problem so they can avoid facing real problems for which both has no guts to raise taxes and lead armed forces against India. Army is demoralised by stupid meaningless talk with india about Kashmir. Now how thesae both can inspire army man so he can go out of way and go to fight against india, we need some inspiring leader who will inspire soldier at bottom who will be ready to saCRIFICE HIMSELF FOR LIBERATION OF KASHMIR AND and solving this problem leading to permanant peace with India and keep source all major water. It is true what Mr. Jinnah said it is Juglar vain of economic life of pakistan.
Hope Z and NS stop childish games and go for real work. They will hopefully as I believe in miracles.
Good night.

Re: # 11

zeemax,

.... by and large the people of pakistan do not have any character and on top of that they are stupid and ignorant ....... people are stupid and ignorant everywhere, but it is the lack of character that sets the pakis (and nigerians) apart from the rest ..... unfortunately, this lack of character has become our national character and so nobody thinks it is a problem until they are personally affected by it ........

..... take the droopy eyed cj for example ... this joker was annointed by mushy and did his bidding until he thought it was safe to defy the faltering general ...... his defiance was not motivated by any high moral principle - he was driven by personal peeve, ambition and the fact that he felt he had nothing to loose and everything to gain ........ he did what any characterless paki would do .....

.... zardari is a wretch who is driven by the same unethical and base motives, but at least he is looking at the big picture and might end up doing some good for the long run (inadvertently) ......

..... i think the problem is genetic

Re: # 9 thanks for this funny info right out of the context but right now another big joker of our times Mr Zardari is briefing the press so gotta go cherrio!!!
Nikhat Riaz

#7 Posted by rf786,

You don't need to have confidence in any political set-up. It will evolve. You only need to have confidence in the will of the people.

Tell me, what do you really think Pakistan is? Is it a weak country of weak people? Resourceless, consciousless place with no character?

Think about it and let me know.

#8 Posted by Nikhat,

apne hisse ka diya to jalaein aur chappoo utha ker chala ker nayya paar lagaein

Exactly. And you're doing great at that! Just remember it needs a lot of diyas and chappoos - many diyas flickering out and many chappoos abandoned by tired arms and dropped in the river, before the nayya gets anywhere. And it takes many generations. Pakistan has has just had two.

Nikhat: "chappoo" used to be the nickname of a fellow in the school I went too. I think it was because of his big hands. Another fellow was "pullthroo" (from english name "pull through", which was a metal rod used to clean the barrel of a rifle). He was tall and thin.

Nothing to do with the topic, but just presenting the connections..

Re: # 6 yeah Zeemax u r right... Sometimes cynicism, depression, frustration rules but I am with u.....instead of complaining of darkness or rough weather... apne hisse ka diya to jalaein aur chappoo utha ker chala ker nayya paar lagaein
Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 6

AZeemax

Your optimism is commendable but lacks realism and more importantly evidence to support these hopes.

Pakistani political parties have yet to demonstrate the basic requisites of democracy which usually comes with democratic principles being applied at the party level. May it be PPP, PML-N (etc etc), ANP, MQM, JUI/JUP none of these parties have fostered democratic cultures in their respective parties. JI may have some semblance but that too is tainted by their stringent orthodox Sunni view of Islam which does not allow a open environment.

I agree with your basic premise, but have very little confidence in this political setup.