Delayed Justice

Ref nkg #23

The nature of people cannot be changed... particularly, that of the lower castes who face discrimination daily from the OBCs. (After all, how many brahmins do they encounter in their villages? Most brahmins have left for the cities.)

Last year, my niece asked her MBA classmate to come to our house. The classmate asked if she would be allowed inside our house since she is an Adi Dravida! She was welcomed into the house since none of us cared for anything except the fact that she is our niece's friend.

A person I had met in a social work setting (with whom I have spent two weeks at a time three different times over a period of a year and with whom I have a good raport) came to visit me in our house. He absolutely refused to sit in a sofa or a chair and sat in the nice large bench in one of the bay windows in the living room. He is a Roman Catholic and his family probably had converted from one of the lower castes at least 4 generations earlier and he just could not overcome his own inhibitions!

The reason there are more conversions in Tamil Nadu is because of the continuous assault on Hinduism by the DMK. While declaring that belief in Siva, Vishnu or Rama is the hallmark of stupidity, the DMK would not say the belief in Allah is stupidity. Add to this the promise of a job in Saudi Arabia and a house in your native village if you would convert; people convert to Islam. As that Roman Catholic friend of mine said, the dollar Christians have come to India. The pastors of American evangelical churches in Tamil Nadu send statistics to American sponsors on how many additional converts they have each month. Their funding depends on results: classic American carrots-and-sticks policy! In Chennai, you will see autorickshaws or tea shops owned by these new converts.

Nkg,

Harimau is right when saying the caste based discrimination is not the sole domain of Brahmins. There are several other castes that practice discrimination more rabidly.

Hari,Vengat
It is reality that the conversion rate is very high amongst Tamils. I am not talking about economic exclusion. It is more of empowering people in social level as well. People still respect brahmins. Little bit of space in social life (cultural, political) sphere will make them better. If you don't interact with people living in your locatlity and keep them isolated in cultural level,when they are eager to participate.
In India (as a whole), after so many years of reservation, we are yet to find dalit industrialist, dalit media person and some elite jobs like news reader, cricket player, pilot, journalist etc. It firmly shows that, though reservation has ensured their entry in all levels, institution has failed to create a better professional in him/her. That is what causes trouble.
Regarding exclusion of creamy layer, I have heard a strange arguement from a dalit activist from UP. OBCs are much richer than the other castes in UP and Bihar. But as they are socially backward, they spend money on wrong areas. So, they need to be given reservation to bring rural Bihar/UP culturaly better.
We all should agree that Christianity and Islam is partialy spreading because of social exclusion and causing anti social elements. Just look at the venom, what dalits kept for Brahmins in various sites. It is neither good for India...

Ref nkg #19

[The caste problem, specially brahminical stupidity is very active in Tamilnadu. After witnessing rapid conversion of malabar peoples to islam, brahmins should have started movement to provide some concession to other castes. Kind of democratisation.]

You haven't read up on the caste politics of Tamil Nadu.

The movement to allow entry of all castes into temples was spearheaded by brahmins of Tamil Nadu, members of the Congress Party and fighting for the freedom of the country. Look up who led the move to allow entry of all castes into the Meenakshi Temple at Maurai.

In Kerala, it was under the dewanship of C. P. Ramaswamy Iyer that the Raja signed the temple entry proclamation in 1936.

On the other hand, the Nadars of Madurai district had gone all the way to the Madras High Court in the 1800s seeking entry into the Meenakshi Temple. The British judges tartly observed that the Nadars refuse entry into their temples to Dalits and so the Upper Castes were equally within their rights not to allow entry of Nadars into the Meenakshi Temple. The Nadars are classified as Most Backward Caste (MBC) today. However, they have invented a fancy pedigree trying to call themselves kshatriyas.

The rich persons (landlords, moneylenders, shopkeepers, etc.) who felt that they could muscle their way into power took up cudgels ostensibly on behalf of the Backward Castes. They went so far as to demand that the British should stay on rather than hand power over to the Congress Party which, in their opinion, was dominated by brahmins. As if, a 3% minority in Tamil Nadu could usurp power in a democratic state!

You see the results of this kind of hypocrisy in India. The MBCs and OBCs are demanding that there should be no exclusion of the "creamy layer" from reservations. That is because, it is only the rich among the BCs who can afford an education and they want to monopolize it at the expense of their poorer brethren.

Golti doesn't read history; he merely regurgitates the propaganda produced by the Dravidian parties. I, on the other hand, read Indian history.

Re: # 17

Harimau,

I'll go with you next year...promise...

Nkg,

Let’s leave at that. After all Brahmins are our people too. Harimau's online persona cannot be extrapolated for ordinary people on road or even Harimau (offline) himself.

I sincerely believe Harimau is trying to put the pieces together to find what caused us to remain at loggerheads.

Hari, Vengat...
Indian Govt. (state and central govt.) fixes price of life for accident victims (specificaly after each Railway accident). We should have used that price tag. Something is better than nothing. Unfortunately, it was never an election agenda for political parties (specially BJP).

The caste problem, specially brahminical stupidity is very active in Tamilnadu. After witnessing rapid conversion of malabar peoples to islam, brahmins should have started movement to provide some concession to other castes. Kind of democratisation. Like brahmins should be selected ( through some process) and then may be elected, than born. Once low caste people become arab slave (moslems) or roman slave (christians), it creates trouble for everybody. In gaud ( current day Bengal), Chaitanya started bhakti movement to stop sudras from converting to islam. Anyhow, he was not successful to that extent. Otherwise, you would have seen bigger arab implant in eastern front than the existing one and resultant trouble.

Ref Golti #16

[Re: # 15

Dear Harimau,

You've not come out of the plotting closet, isn't it? You guys are so used to codify the rules to the disadvantage of others and you still refuse to let go it...

Learn to play by other's rules...]

Rules are set by Ride the Rockies Tour Director. Everybody has to follow them.

So, buy yourself a bike and start training!

There is no brahmin conspiracy here.

Ref Golti #14

It is too late for this year. Registration closed on Feb 22. Check out their website if you want to come next year.

I suggest that you try a crss-country ride across Rhode Island. I think you can leave home after a cup of coffee and ride clear to the stateline and be back for OJ, eggs and toast!

Check out bike rides on Google. You are sure to find one in your home state. Heck, I see riders on the East Coast Road in Chennai.

Re: # 15

Dear Harimau,

You've not come out of the plotting closet, isn't it? You guys are so used to codify the rules to the disadvantage of others and you still refuse to let go it...

Learn to play by other's rules...

Re: # 14

I accept if you accept to take care of my expenditures...:)...C'mon its not about riding a bike...its about fighting till death...you ready...I'm ready...

Ref Golti #11

Nope.

Went to college on a scholarship. Went to grad school in the US on assistantship. Worked my way up the corporate ladder. Taking life easy now and doing what I like instead of doing what I am EXPECTED to do.

The fee for the cycling event is less that $325 this year. You sleep on the cheap if you camp along the way. Sandwiches are $2 for a peanut-butter-and jelly to about $6 for a burger. Airfare is the single largest expense.

Try it. Come on, prove to me that you, the scion of soldiers who followed the Nayak kings into Tamil Nadu, have got the stamina to ride a bike for 432 miles in one week.

Even in this physical endurance test, the only Indian participants are brahmins... me, my brother, my nephew and a couple of friends.

Sh!t, what are you OBCs good for?

Ref nkg #10

[Hari, DM

Regarding Bhopal Gas tragedy, I am sure Union Carbide/Dow Chemical will not pay single penny.]

Union Carbide was willing to pay in the low tens of millions of dollars. However, Rajiv Gandhi couldn't figure out how to screw the public out of their money; after all, the amount of the settlement would be public information. So, everyone demanded compensation in the million dollar range for each victim. That would have been in excess of $10 billion.

Union Carbide figured out that if they did nothing, the Indian court system would take 5000 years before they delivered a verdict in the case. So they just stopped talking about paying the victims compensation. Social activists such as Medha Patkar who is trying to stop the Narmada dam system on the basis that the displaced persons are not being compensated adequately has not one word to say about the Bhopal gas tragedy.

Everything in India, including the so-called social service, is merely aimed at getting publicity for oneself. After all, if Jwahirullah Nehru could posture around the world subtly campaigning for the Nobel Peace Prize, why shouldn't Medha Patkar aim at some other prize?

Re: # 11

Harimau,

Interesting. You must be a rich man ...

Ref ahmedmadani #7

[Good luck for cycle racing.]

Thanks.

Actually, it is not a race. It is just a course that should be completed if you want bragging rights. Quite a few don't do the entire distance.

[How many days after that much racing you are out of action due to injuries and fatigue and weakness.]

If I don't fall or otherwise injure myself, about a week of rest should bring me back to a pain-free state. Of course, the race itself is so hard that all of us pop Advil a couple of times a day so that we don't feel the pain as much. Real problem is dehydration: if the route takes us through a treeless plain, we get cooked in the summer heat!

Hari, DM
This is the dark side of POTA etc. It can be used as political weapon.
Regarding Bhopal Gas tragedy, I am sure Union Carbide/Dow Chemical will not pay single penny.
Congress is trying to strengthen its muslim vote base. They had lost it to regional parties. In this era of caste based politics, muslim vote creates a decisive factor. In Karnataka, with 34-35% vote BJP is able to secure 1/2 the seats.