Were Buddhists and Jains Persecuted in Ancient India?

290
"Islam has brough indiscipline and north Indian society is living example of it. That killed indian civilisation. If you go to Bihar/UP and other urdooised/islamised society "
is there more worse terrorism chaos murder mayhem than bengal's Charu 'Kanu started Naxal or even camouflaged bhadro basu CPM ?
all the bands hartals and disobedience is halmark of bengal.No work just 'hujate Bengals ask any non bengali INDIANS in bengali how much they love you ...Ask Einstein here first..
If you do not know u r own national langusge HINDI (and how it is different than urdu )you are the biggest anti india.Ala up/bihar.its like saying u smel b/c u eat rotten fish

if you like South India just live there BJp is moving with you

Re: # 289
Pauper himself
"Idiot, you will breed like mosquitoes and increase population share and then ask for wealth share!!! Wealth is not created by arab land such that India needs to allocate special fund for arab slaves. Everybody needs to earn it. At least Indians are generous enough to treat arab slaves with equality."
How many wealth the bengalis or indian govt has shared with muslims ( and anglo before they were chased out i personally lost 100s of angl b/c of hindu bengali comunalism chuvanisticism..THE mention of wealth was not asking anything but comparing of 150 million started by Harmou forked tongue hindu like you .Sob since Indian MUSLIM become Arab no more than you become bangla loving ala b desh more than indian ,Ask the non bengali marwaris in kolkata spl how much indian they are made to feel Muslims in India and bengal particularly put food on your table more than YOU b/c 30%of bengals population are Krishi (farmers) who work harder than you sedentary all talk no work 'Babus' more famous for laziness. compare u r self to even bihar & U.P.

Santi neketan Viveka nnda Sangit are bourgoise practicing forked tongue basus chakravaties and kahin chaterjee kahin datta .practicing communism on the back of muslim exploted working producing not taking nothing from govt as opposed to your 100% govt sibsidised jobs.Fk you r genorisity if moslems stop work al u will have is push butons of computers.or files

And Communist court them(muslims) for that

cheema ji, I can only speak for myself, and we all have a right to ask what others actually believe, so I will try to explain.

A mirzai might be a monotheist (and if Islam is evil, as you say, then mirzaism is much worse.), but monotheism, by itself, is not enough to make one a Muslim.

Would a monotheist who declares himself or herself the Supreme God of All be a Muslim? Obviously not.

The question you have rightly focused on is how a non-Muslim who has been exposed to the Final Message as revealed to Prophet Muhammad, but does not accept it, can be a considered a Muslim.

I, as nonbeliever, do not consider such a person a Muslim, but a believer might. Let me explain.

A person should logically and morally call himself a Muslim only if he first understands the Final Message as divine Will, and then accepts it as guide to his or her own life.

Consider a Jew. He or she continues to follow an 'older message' and simply fails to the divinity and the finality of the new message, even if he or she has been exposed to it. He continues to work on the old faith.

Do you agree that, from a believer's pov, such a person would have been a Muslim had the Final Message not been revealed (to Prophet Muhammad)? May be even a good one?

The only thing you can hold against him that he has not updated himself or herself to the last and the latest. But couldn't someone who works on the 'older' version (or some weirder version, as in Hinduism) be 'better' and 'more faithful' than someone who works on the latest and the last, but fails to do a good job of it?

Re: # 299; Eklavya

my last post tonight...it is late

This is what Zee wrote:
"There are Jews/Christians/Hindus/Buddhists who are more Muslim than me or anyone else. Only Allah knows the hearts."

Second word....ARE...not were...with me so far?

If God's final message is here, all else that existed before is null and void and replaced by "the new" message...with me still?

How come a "hindu...gobbldegook in my opinion" be described (in 'faith' terms) the same as a monotheist? (let alone the final message 'believers')

So a mirzaee 'believer' (a believer nevertheless) is a monotheist...born (not through personal choice but God's will) into a mirzaee family...hence following God's will, be regarded as 'non-muslim' by that logic??

The "muslim-ness" of a jew may be acceptable BEFORE mohammed...certainly NOT AFTER the 'final message' is already here!!

btw...don't despare on my gobbledegook re: hindus; gobbledegook can be ignored as childhood stories

monotheism is pure evil!!...you are absolutely right that the two are lightyears apart and cannot co-exist

now if you are going to do a flip and standby your friend and say Islam is not evil (notice...difference btw 'muslim-ness' and 'islam'), then you should be a muslim too....and since you reject God's final message despite good enough exposure to it, YOU ARE A DENIER whether you or your mate likes it or not

remember...difference between you and your muslim compatriots (whose 'mind' you have been studying intently for years) is NOT genetic/circumstantial but purely Islam

now if you or Zee are going to reply here, please put a little more effort in; otherwise, don't insult my intelligence with these half-baked 'gobbledegooks'...

Thank You and Khuda Hafiz

Mystic bhai, nkg, what have you two gotten into? :(

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Cheema ji, may be I can try an explanation and Zee can, as always, fill in the corrections.

According to a believer, the first Muslim was born the moment the human animal did not wish to stay a mere animal any longer, and looked up toward the sky, recongized a God, and wished to become greater than himself or herself.

Since then God sent down Prophets to lead this man/woman to realizing his or her full potential as God's agent, until He sent the full and final message to Prophet Muhammad.

Muslims existed before the Final Message was delivered. A jew would obviously not understand or accept Prophet Muhammad' final role, but that doesn't mean such a person cannot be a Muslim.

What can NOT be a Muslim is someone who actively sets himself against Islam (who zee calls a denier) as finally revealed by Prophet Muhammad, someone who works against the interests of Islam for the sake of destroying/undermining/editing/replacing the Final Message (under the mistaken belief that it can be destroyed/undermined/edited/replaced at all).

Mirzais are obviously non-Muslims by this (or any other, if one looks at them carefully) criterion.

An unbeliever might disagree with that, that is how a believer must see it.

Foul smelling Bangali bhoot better watch what you are talking check u r brain if u have any and statistical facts before barking like dog


289 Posted by nkg on June 1, 2008 10:29:06 pm
Re: # 275
Mystic...
Idiot, you will breed like mosquitoes and increase population share and then ask for wealth share!!! Wealth is not created by arab land such that India needs to allocate special fund for arab slaves. Everybody needs to earn it. At least Indians are generous enough to treat arab slaves with equalilty. The minority protection section should have been applied more on Parsis, Anglo Indians and other North Eastern tribes"

Yea Muslim are protected ....Who? chase away Anglo who were closet to muslim in India due to small size Parsis were and closest to Muslims due to most inter religous marriageJinnah Wadia Zarina to Sanjay Khan & common persian names ..

Who wants any thing from u and with per capita income of less than $ of u r petty substandard sutenence you cant afford to feed yourself who wants your genorisity feed your famiy first bhuka bangali

Re: # 296; zeemax
"but cannot be Muslims because they reject its very basis."

Not true...they believe in all the five articles of Islam but don't in the finalty of Mohammed as a prophet

you are missing the point though....if you can regard a jew (who 'denies' Mohammed the prophethood, let alone a special status amongst prophets) a 'better muslim'....YOUR WORDS NOT MINE.....then I can only think you are letting your personal feelings get in the way

clearly you have written a lot without actually answering my question. anyhow..and you are wrong about your mate too...perhaps it is the explanation you have given yourself for personal reassurance and again truth happens to be the casualty of this process

and what exactly is it that I have denied? one denies something if there is some evidence for something...may not be conclusive....otherwise, I'd say it is simply rejecting an invalid hypothesis

Khuda Hafiz

#293 Posted by akcheema,

It is one thing to be an agnostic, and another to be a denier. You Sir, are a denier, Eklavya is not. He neither accepts nor denies.

Re Mirzaees, they are deniers. I think they are basically atheists. They can be good humans, as many of them are, but cannot be Muslims because they reject its very basis. They just create a silly fiction for ulterior and deceptive purposes. If they were just a sect, as Ismailis, or Daudi Bohras, without denying the very basis, that would be different.

Re: # 294

"Dalit conversion (to christianity) is very high in southern states "

Nkg, Why do you think the conversions happen?

Re: # 291
Vengat...

Not exactly. Dalit conversion (to christianity) is very high in southern states than any other place. Moslem population is also not very less. But the overall indian culture is very much alive and strong in these states. Classical music, classical dance,social discipline,mutt based public events (adopted from buddhist culture), women are far more liberated...
Go to Bihar/UP...Major part of their language is urdoo/arabic. Entire society is in chaos, the girls and womenfolk are not different from Pakistan or any moslem country (moslems wear hazeeb and cow belt women cover head with veil. Literacy rate extreame low).No cultural side (Madhubani painting was quite famous like Tanjore painting). Mithila was famous for literary work. Now it is crowded with moslems and naxalites.
I am Bengali and very fond of R K Mission. It is totally different from any Bengali institute, specialy Govt. instutues. When I come to Bangalore, I found 100s of such institutes.
Vivekananda, like Sankara, travelled extensively throughout India. His writings are based on the observation on local cultures and customs and folk stories. Actualy, Indian history is much preserved through these local stories and cultural events.

Re: # 292; Zeemax

very confusing sir; I wasn't referring to "people like myself" anyway...so don't know where that idea came to you from

I am merely trying to clarify that, according to what YOU wrote, there are jews/christians/hindus etc who are better muslims than you!! I found that extremely misleading since 'mirzaees' are BELIEVERS....whether you agree with what they 'believe' in or not in not the issue here...as I am sure would be the case with jewish/christian/hindu beliefs and yours

Just to clarify....I WAS NOT referring to myself or people with similar 'disbeliefs' if you will; this would extend to include your friend Eklavya too since he has repeatedly stated that he is NOT A MAN OF FAITH...

However you'd define me, fanatic is not the word.....I regard my lack of belief to be a personal matter and am not looking to impose it by any means political on a fellow human being

If you do have to reply, please do so within the context....rather than trying to mislead anyone...albeit inadvertently

#284 Posted by akcheema,

... does that premise extend to those otherwise appeared to be despised ... by you....e.g., mirzaees ...some may well be very loyal citizens and indeed 'Muslims'....using the analogy above?

You missed apostates/libertarian fanatics as yourself in the above list:)

No. Being a good and law-abiding citizen may make one a boyscout but never a Muslim. Believing in SOMETHING transcending mere human capability and/or potential is a must.

Nkg,

Is it because of relatively unchallenged Hinduism in South India, we, read South Indians, are so nonchalant about other religions gobbling us?

Re: # 252
DM...
Because, these orientalists have no stake in India and are generally honest. Any civilisation grow on couple of basic social principles-integrity, honesty, hard work and discipline. Ancient India was quite disciplined. It was able to produce best of the literatures, art, mathematics, science etc. due to these qualities. Biddhism/Jainism first brough passifism (which is basically core of Christianity). Islam has brough indiscipline and north Indian society is living example of it. That killed indian civilisation. If you go to Bihar/UP and other urdooised/islamised society and South India, the stark difference will tell you why, after beeing such a good heritage and good natural resource these places ( Bihar and UP) are backward and South India is marching ahead.

Related to similarities...

It is like, my pet dog eats biscuit, milk and sleep on sofa, so is my young son. So, my pet dog is similar to my son. Moslems in India are like domesticated dog (not fully), who partially behaves like Indians.

There is a nice set of books by Vivekananda. Collect it from R K Mission. It is nice and informative.

Re: # 275
Mystic...
Idiot, you will breed like mosquitoes and increase population share and then ask for wealth share!!! Wealth is not created by arab land such that India needs to allocate special fund for arab slaves. Everybody needs to earn it. At least Indians are generous enough to treat arab slaves with equalilty. The minority protection section should have been applied more on Parsis, Anglo Indians and other North Eastern tribes...

Murad Beg...
Does is kind this fatwa matters, when the actions speaks something different?

Much more important than the Dalai Lama's endorsement was the declaration three days ago by the Darul Uloom seminary of Deoband declaring terrorism and injury to innocents as against the tenets of Islam. Yesterday this was endorsed by the Juma Masjid United Forum.

Only bigoted Muslims, Hindus, Christians and others believe that there can be no common ground. There is more common ground in religious philosophies than differences. But bigoted Mullah's condemned Dara Shikoh to death for the heresy of writing `the mingling of two oceans' a work seeking the unity between the ideas of the Quran and the Brahma Shastras.