Another Lal Masjid in the Making?

#73 Posted by zeemax
I don't remember exactly. But the reference to the Temple did not jive with the discussion then. You can go back to it. But I don't recall the thread anymore!

#70 Posted by HP,

HP, and you were asking ME what the Solomon's Temple had got to do with Zionists in USA?

#69 Posted by alice,

I think it's customary for Indians to attach the 'ji' like some Pakistanis attach 'bibi'. I think the first is just a manner of speech while the second is definitely patronizing. But sure your objection must be respected!

Sleep well, alice/ana.

#52 Posted by laddu

“Perhaps a few lines summarizing the current Palestinian problem from informed Pakistanis would be enlightening !!!�

“A man is thrown in a Soviet prison cell and the other inhabitants of the cell crowd round him. “How long you in for,� they ask. “Ten years,� the new man laments. “And what did you do?� “Nothing. I did nothing�. “You liar,� the prisoners shout. “For nothing you get five years.�

You just gave me five years!

The conflict in the Middle East is complex as there are so many players and many losers. The creation of Israel was in no way a recompense for the Holocaust because it is not the Palestinians who caused the Jewish Holocaust - it was Hitler in Germany. Old biblical/religious writings were used as the basis for creating the state of Israel.
The story of Israel-Palestine conflict starts from 1882 when the first settlers arrived Europe.

I would recommend you start with Wiki and build your knowledge at your pace. At some point in time I will point you to some places on the net where some great discussions take place about the history and the current status of the conflict. Some of them are right wing sites and some other are liberal or left wing. However, the quality of discussions is top notch. The participants are from Israel,Arab countries, Europe and the US. And you can learn a whole lot by just reading through the discussions. Mostly, these guys don’t like newbie and simple questions. Depending on your level of comfort, you too can take part in the discussions later on.

This is Ben Gurion, the first Prime Minister of Israel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

"If I was an Arab leader, I would never make peace with Israel...we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs..There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see only one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

My name is not ana ji, or alice ji. it is alice or ana. And as I have said before, if you cannot address me without using the "ji" then kindly do not address me at all. Because eklavya, I do not find your addressing me in such manner to be respectful, and I do not believe you mean it in that way. I don't give a rat's ass what you think of me, because I don't think much of you. So let's drop the "ji", and the pretense, shall we?

thanks.

You were going to sleep, alice ji. May the night be good to you.

Eklavya:

First of all, stop being patronizing. Secondly, please go and take a look in your newly found mirror (ask arjun where that is exactly) and then feel free to do whatever you like to yourself.

I hope that was illogical enough for you, o grand master of logic and understanding. puhleeze. . .

#62 Posted by majumdar,

What else do any secret service female recruiters do? Hand out pamphlets or make power point presentations? haha!

alice ji, there are thousands of groups around the world who are/have been persecuted, prosecuted, exiled, deprived, oppressed, killed, raped, murdered, ethnically cleansed..do you expect me to be interested in them all? Please be logical here.

I understand Muslims being interested in Palestinians. And I have no problem with that at all. That is how it ought to be.

Ana,

Good night to you. Hope you will be back tomorrow and we can resume our nok jhok sessions.

Regards

Majha:

Touche' dude! Touche'. But at least some of US know what we are talking about when we are critical of our institutions.

Anyway, I'm tired of this us vs. them BS. And reductive reasoning. And tonight I plan not to try and stay awake past my bedtime, so until the next time. . . khudahafiz.


eklavya:

Palestine is interesting to more than Muslims. And when you can get a grip on that, as well as other things, who knows what will happen in this world?

Palestine is interesting to Muslims in terms of her being free from the Zionists. Palestine will be much more than Islam though, and its citizens will see to that. It is not going to be another state based on religion. That must be very disappointing to you, no?

Zee sahib,

The article you have quoted unfortunately do not say anything about her horizontal antics.

Regards

Zee, explaining matters to Laddu Mahraj would be quite a challenge. The only thing HE is interested in is how to stop murderous Islam. To that end, he has even extended open invitation to Sattar bhai to come live lovingly with his idolator self in India.

LOL, this man is quite something!

Laddu Mian,

For your Palestinian primer, read below how a blonde bombshell ex-Mossad recruiter by horizontal persuasion is set to become the next Israeli PM:

Israel's Mrs. Clean

Time Magazine - Thursday, Jun. 05, 2008

Who can blame Israelis for being disgusted with their politicians? A sex scandal brought down the last President; a former Finance Minister faces indictment over alleged fraud, theft and money-laundering; and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert may be indicted for taking more than $150,000, mostly in cash, from a New York businessman. A popular bumper sticker says, OLMERT, YOU DISGUST ME. The deepening sense of odium is reflected in Olmert's single-digit popularity ratings. He may be forced to resign within weeks, and already politicians have begun to handicap the succession.

Condoleezza Rice has a lot in common with her secret new soul mate, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi...

It's probably no coincidence that the odds-on favorite to replace Olmert is a politician with an ironclad reputation for honesty and integrity--she famously insists on always picking up her own tab, even if it's just for a plate of hummus. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni is in many ways Olmert's opposite. The Prime Minister is a jokey backslapper and charmer, a consummate pol with expensive tastes in cigars, flashy wristwatches and fountain pens; Livni, 49, is a no-nonsense former Mossad agent who eschews small talk, avoids the Bar Mitzvah circuit most Israeli politicians use to rack up favors and lives quietly in a modest Tel Aviv home with her husband and two sons. And she has strong views on probity in the public sphere. "I resent the idea that corruption comes with the political system," she tells Time in her glass-and-wood-paneled Jerusalem office. "It doesn't."

Livni is the most prominent member of Olmert's Kadima party to have urged that he step down. He has said he will stay on and fight to prove his innocence. (He admits taking money but says he spent it legitimately on campaign expenses.) But if pressure grows, he could step aside, allowing the party to pick a new leader. In a poll of Kadima members, 35% said they wanted Livni as the next party leader, giving her a 10% lead over her closest rival, Transportation Minister Shaul Mofaz, a former army chief. Livni doesn't try to hide her hopes. Friends who've asked her why she wants to become Prime Minister have received the reply, "I know I can do this job."

Livni was born into a political family: both her parents belonged to the Irgun, the armed Zionist militia responsible for attacks against the Arabs and the British in Palestine in the 1930s and 1940s. But she chose to steer clear of politics, first serving in the army as a lieutenant in the Israel Defense Forces, then waiting on tables in the Sinai before joining Mossad, the Israeli foreign-intelligence agency, in which she served from 1980 to 1984. She learned elementary spy craft in Paris, including lessons on how to recruit agents. She also learned the importance of discretion, a valuable skill in her current role as chief Israeli negotiator with the Palestinians.

She left Mossad to become a lawyer and continued to avoid politics for 10 years, at a time when the country was being torn apart over the question of exchanging land for peace with the Palestinians. When she finally took the plunge, it was to help shape the terms of the exchange. "Tzipi said she'd prefer to be the negotiator than let someone else do it and give it all away," says Eran Cohen, her former political adviser.

Voted into the Knesset in 1999, she became a loyal supporter of Ariel Sharon, leader of the right-wing Likud Party; when he created the more centrist Kadima, she followed. In six years, Sharon named her to seven different ministerial posts. Along the way, she broke with her parents' Zionist views; friends say she'd rather have a peaceful Israel to bequeath to her children. Livni also rejects the Likud Party's vision of an Israel encompassing both banks of the Jordan River. "In order for us to be a democratic and a Jewish state, in the long run, we'll have to give away some of the land," she says.

That doesn't make her a soft touch as a negotiator. Her Palestinian counterparts say she is fair but tough to the point of stubbornness, especially on Israel's refusal to accept Palestinian demands for the right of refugees to return to their old homes inside the Jewish state. Livni's reply: Let them return to a future Palestinian state. Livni has also earned the admiration of European colleagues, who cite her lawyerly logic and pragmatism. And she has made a close friend of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, whom she calls at least twice a week. "Tzipi's strength to endure, indeed to excel, in what were difficult, often heartbreaking, conditions was a testament to her character," Rice wrote in a tribute last year when Livni was named one of TIME's 100 Most Influential People.

Her parents would have been proud--even if she strayed from their vision for Israel. When Livni accepted a two-state solution for Israelis and Palestinians, she got a call from her ultra-Zionist mother Sarah: "This hurts me to say this, but we didn't fight for the state of Israel for our generation but for all generations to come. This is about your generation, and I trust your decision." After Sarah's death seven months ago, Livni found out that her mother's old comrades had turned against her because her daughter had betrayed the Zionist dream. A friend told Livni how Sarah had responded: "My daughter's always right." Israelis may soon have an opportunity to judge whether she's right for them.

alice ji

Palestinians are interesting to Muslims.