Restoring the Civil Rights of Ahmadis

Nazi ki aulad, until you get our names rights, until you put Nabee Allah in front of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmadi (the leader of all Payghambers, and second only to Allah) until you address us with respect that we deserve, I refuse to entertain your silly stupid questions that you took out of a stupid 6th century Arbi camel's butthole (where your other beliefs also came out of). Be the man, show respect, and earn some in return. Until then, go and kill more Shias to earn Sawab. Even Nazis were more civil than people like you. You guys are swine, and the only ones filthier than you are the one who are influenced by.

Re: # 182 Qul Harry

"why did your people kill Imam Hussian in such a despicable manner, you Wahabi ....."

MY people? And who might those be? He was trapped by the lying Kufa-wallas. Three generations suffered because those responsible for these assassinations cheated and trapped them through promises of (fake) support.

And what's the hadith about tattooes, O wise one. I'm all ears....

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Re: # 176 Death Metal freak says:
"never claim to be an expert on Ahmadiyat (in fact far from it), and I am only a most humble Ahmadi (admittedly not a very good one)."

The tattooed animal has finally admitted openly at ChowQ!

Other Q-cumbers, please take note...

Re: # 175 Stutter-2
"And while I may be khatam-ul-idiot … surely I am not the last one"

Not 'may be', YOU ARE one, the way you create circular arguements. And rest assured, there will be others after you!

Re: # 175 Stutter-2

"Most muslims believe in the “last messenger� concept but fail to validate it. It seems that this belief crept into Islam at some point in time … but does not hold up when reviewed closely."

Which are these confused 'most Muslims'? Everyone is agreed except you Q-cumbers from across the border. And when did this 'creep into Islam' and who did it? Enlighten us O wise one, or just speak of the distortions and perversions cooked up by MGAQ!

You insisted on translating it as “last� … and went on to explain it as “God’s seal� and “God’s approval�. Do you even read before posting?"

I read my posts very carefully before sending. I WRITE you know! Perhaps you 'deliberatley missed' reading an earlier post on this 'seal' thing.

Qadianis read this khÄ?tam (end, conclusion, final, last) as khÄ?tim (seal)! The term ‘khatam’ has 8 forms, and is mentioned 8 times in the Qur’Ä?n. Go read and analyse, or ask your demented khalifa.

"prophets made wind blow and that they traveled at super fast speeds."

Again you did not read the exact descriptions in the Qur'an but rather started to jump needlessly. Haven't you read about Daud and Sulaiman (peace on them) being blessed with kingship, Prophethood, and great knowledge of nature's (Allah's) laws being placed at their disposal?

What do you understand reading 27:16 and 34:10?

Tell me O wise 'Q'?

Further reading:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV-ze9wiIqw

Note: The referenced book is in Urdu

#175 sattar2
Quite eloquently Mirza Ghulam writes

Mirza Ghulam's Tirade against Jesus Christ(pbuh)
(In light of his own Writings)

Among his other claims, Mirza Ghulam also stated to be the Promised Messiah of the revelations and superior to Jesus(pbuh), the son of Mary(RA), in every aspect. However, when he became aware of the authentic teachings (Hadith) of our beloved Prophet Muhammad(SAW) confirming the fact that Jesus(pbuh) will descend before the end of this world, he had to resort to deception and treachery to misguide and impress the uninformed.

Naturally, all learned Muslims and Christians were disgusted that a person of such a questionable character would even dare to make such an outrageous claim. They could not reconcile Mirza's many faults with the perfection of the Messiah and refused to pay any attention to his claims. But, the claim to being the Messiah was an integral part of Mirza's satanic scheme to promote himself to prophethood; hence, he insisted in propagating his lies. Outraged Christians demanded that he perform miracles as Jesus(pbuh) had done and ridiculed him when he was unable to do so.

In return, Mirza resorted to making blasphemous statements about Jesus(pbuh), one of the greatest Prophets. Since Mirza was neither willing to correct his own moral and ethical flaws nor able to perform miracles, he could not have ever hoped to raise his own status to that of Jesus(pbuh) - whom he viewed as his competitor to messiahship. Instead, Mirza resorted to making desperate and slanderous remarks in an attempt to try to lower the status of Jesus(pbuh) to his own level!

Listed are some of the better known writings of Mirza Ghulam in this regard. I apologize, in advance, for any offense you might find at these writings - and hope that Allah(SWT) will forgive for having reproduced these blasphemous statements. Please be assured that no Muslim would hold these same beliefs.

Mirza Insults the Family of Jesus(pbuh)

* "Jesus's three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood Jesus came into existence."(Anjam-i-Atham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 291, addenda; Anjam-i-Atham, P. 9, appendix)
* "You may have tried to find a solution to my claims about the Messiah's parental and maternal grandmothers. I am tired of thinking. Up to now, no nice solution has occurred to me. What a glorious God is HE whose paternal and maternal grandmothers are of such repute?"(Nur-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 9, P. 394; Nur-ul-Quran, Vol. 2, P. 45)
* "Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach us that God was born of a woman - and was fed by sucking blood from the womb of his mother for nine months - the blood which had the qualities of prostitutes like the daughters of Saba, Tamar, and Rabah." (Anjam-e-Athum, P. 41)
* "Jesus had an inclination for prostitutes perhaps due to his ancestral relationship with them..."(Anjam-i-Atham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 291, addenda)

Mirza Insults Mary(RA)

* "Mary's eminence is such that she put off her marriage for a long time, but after constant pressure of the community leaders, and due to her pregnancy, she accepted to get married. However, people raise objection about how she could have been married while pregnant, that being against the teachings of the Torah. People also object to Mary breaching the oath of celibacy. People also question why Mary set the foundation of polygamy. In other words, why did Mary agree to marry Joseph the carpenter, despite his being already married."(Kasthi-i-Nuh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 18; Kasthi-i-Nuh, P. 26)
* "Mary's hanging out with her fiancee Joseph before wedlock is a strong testimony of an Israelite custom.... Going out with fiancees among people in some frontier tribes had exceeded the limits to such an extent that sometimes pregnancy comes before wedlock, yet it is not looked down upon."(Ayyam-ul-Sulh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 14, P. 300)
* "... Because the Messiah, son of Mary, had worked as a carpenter with his father Joseph for twenty two years, we know that he was able to invent different sorts of machines and instruments."(Azalah-i-Auham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 3, P. 254)
* "Jesus's three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and prostitutes, from whose blood Jesus came into existence." [See: Mirza Insults the family of Jesus(pbuh)](Anjam-i-Atham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 291, addenda)
* "Jesus, The Messiah, had four brothers and two sisters; all of them were his real brothers and sisters. I mean that they all were the offspring of Joseph and Mary."
(Kashti-i-Nuh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 18)

Hope that everyone can readily see what Mirza Ghulam is insinuating here:

* It was common among Jews to go out with their fiancee and have premarital sex;
* Mary(RA) was a Jew and used to go out with his fiancee, Joseph;
* Mary(RA) broke her oath of celibacy (had multiple children);
* Joseph was the Father of Jesus(pbuh);
* Jesus(pbuh) had Paternal grandmothers (did Jesus(pbuh) even have a father?);
* Jesus(pbuh) had brothers/sisters and all were the children of Joseph and Mary(RA).

In short, Mirza insolently suggested that Mary(RA) had engaged in premarital sex with Joseph; and Jesus(pbuh) was the result of that fornication. Each one of these claims of Mirza are unfounded and untruthful charges.

Mirza Claims himself Superior to Jesus(pbuh)

* "To this nation, God sent His promised Messiah (Mirza), who is better than the first Messiah (Jesus) in all regards. I swear by God in whose hands my soul rests that if the Messiah, son of Mary, were my contemporary, he could not have done the works that I can do. Nor would he be able to match the signs (miracles) which I am bringing."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 152; Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 148)
* "To this community, God sent the promised Messiah (Mirza) who is better in all glory that the first Messiah (Jesus) and calls this new Messiah Ghulam Ahmad."
(Dafi-ul-Bala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 233; Dafi-ul-Bala P. 27)
* "After all, when God and His Apostle (Muhammad(SAW)) and all the Prophets have declared the supremacy of the second Messiah (Mirza) of this period due to his great achievements; then, it is a satanic act to question me 'Why do you proclaim yourself superior to the first Messiah, the son of Mary?'."(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 159)

* "Give up all mention of the son of Mary, because Ghulam Ahmad is superior to him."(Dafi-ul-Bala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 240; Dafi-ul-Bala, P. 30)

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani abused Jesus(pbuh) and, in doing so, rejected verses of Quran speaking of Jesus(pbuh) and his family. He was no more than an opportunist and a fabricator.

May God forgive me for reproducing the profanities & indignities inflicted by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed & contained in publications outlined within parentheses above.

Mannerism of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani!
(In light of his own Writings)

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani did not have any scruples at using profanities to try to ridicule, intimidate, or threaten people who did not accept his false claim to prophethood.

Here are a few examples of his writings:

"My enemies are dirty swine and their women are more wretched than bitches."(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 14, P. 53; Najmul Huda, P. 10, 53)

"All Muslims regard my books with reverence and care and benefit from their sublime thoughts except those who are the offspring of prostitutes (bastards); God has put a seal upon their hearts and they do not accept me."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 5, Page 547-548; Mirat-o-Kamalat-i-Islam, P. 547; Aeena-e-Kamalat Islam, P.547-548)

[Mirza Ghulam translated this Arabic word as "Bastard" in
(Roohany Khazaen Vol. 11, P. 282)

"The one who has no belief in our ultimate victory is fond of becoming bastard and he is bound to be product of fornication." (Roohany Kazaen, Vol. 9, P. 31; Anwar ul Islam, P. 30)

"Are they prepared to swear? No, they'll never do so because they are liars and are derooting the corpse of falsehood like dogs."(Supplement to Anjam-e-Atham, P. 25; Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 309)

His eulogy about Maulvi Saadullah Ludhianwi was:
"I look a sinful man among debauched who is more scoundrel and an execrated being like Satan... He who is called Saadullah by the ignorant is slanderer, wicked and a falsifier... You injured me, bastard. I won't be truthful if you won't have a disgraceful death."(Haqiqat-ul Wahi, P. 14-15; Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 734-735)

"If Abdullah Athum is saved from death (as per Mirza's prophecy) and if all the world say the Christian was correct, then the bastard will not follow the right path."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 9, P. 32)

"Abdul Haq is not content with our victories. He is itching to become a bastard."(Anwar-ul-Islam, P. 30)

"There is nothing more foul than a pig in the world. But the ulema who oppose me are more foul than pigs. "(Anjam-i-Atham, P. 21)

"You have inflicted pain on me with your foulness. You are not truthful. I pray that you die in shame, you son of a harlot."(Anjam-i-Atham, P. 288)

"This bastard of a doctor does not thread the straight path."(Anwar-ul-Islam, P. 30)

He called Shaikhul Islam Saanaullah of Amristar:"O, the son of wind, o traitor..." (Ijaz-i-Ahmadi, P. 43/77)

The puzzling thing is that he himself wrote:
"I have never abused anyone."(Moahiburahman, P. 18)

"He is worst who is abusive, his heart is as filthy as Latrine."(Sar-e-Sumain, P. 74)

"Abuses and rebukes are not the acts of a believer and a believer can not be a curser."(Azalat-ul-Auham, P. 66)

Is this how a Prophet or even a rightly guided individual would speak?
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#532 Posted by guru on June 12, 2008 8:57:45 pm
Re: # 529: Organized relegion is terrorism. In case of Islam it wants to terrorize using most powerful organization in a geography, ie, the state. That is why it wants to own the state. When it does not own a state it just vanishes.

Islam is also imperialism of Arabs. Islam is in Sindh for 1K years, but Sindhi kids do not study Islamic scriptures in Sindhi even today. When Islam is localized, the Arabic Islam fights with it. Shia is persianized Islam. In the last 50 years close ot 2M Shia perished because of this.

Is Ahmedi localized Islam in place (India) and time (19th & 20th century)? Is it like Bahai? Bahai borrowed ideas from Zarotrasthian, Hindu, Buddhist & Jain Dharmas. Is Ahmedi similar? Did it add few more chapters to Koran?

Sattar Sahib. Thanks for clarifying what I can’t to these people who don’t look beyond words. I never claim to be an expert on Ahmadiyat (in fact far from it), and I am only a most humble Ahmadi (admittedly not a very good one). It matters little to me if I am considered Muslim or Pakistani by anyone. I just see this whole thing as a human and civil rights matter.

tahir (#172),

Most muslims believe in the “last messenger� concept but fail to validate it. It seems that this belief crept into Islam at some point in time … but does not hold up when reviewed closely. It is sorta like “Jesus living in the sky�.

You yourself started with “khat’m� … insisted on translating it as “last� … and went on to explain it as “God’s seal� and “God’s approval�. Do you even read before posting?

You are now suggesting that prophets made wind blow and that they traveled at super fast speeds. I view it differently … but you are free to interpret Islam as you like (I wonder what Salim, zee, and Urstruly think about this; check with them - just for kicks).

But let’s not force our interpretation of Islam on each other, esp. by using the force of law and threats of imprisonment. That would be a step back for Islam and humanity. If you fail to appreciate this, then Quran, ahadith, and cutting-and-pasting … are all useless to you.

+++

Kulharee (#174) … note the words “may� and “hardly ever�!

My point is that … it matters little what a person, one of many, says. If Salim wants to understand Ahmadi views, he should take into account the views of large majority of Ahmadis, or better yet, read writings of Mirza Sahib. Kulharee and sattar may be idiots; but so what?? It seems he uses your posts as an excuse to validate his biases, which is a travesty - perhaps more for him than for you.

And while I may be khatam-ul-idiot … surely I am not the last one (grin).

I personally think you play with words but don’t mean anything nasty about the Prophet (pbuh); you probably do it just to annoy the ummah. This is not a good idea … as it creates ill will ... which translates into more persecution of Ahmadi-Muslims. That’s my 2 cents; I hope you’ll rethink.

“Kulharee may be in idiot … I hardly ever read and have little interest in his posts.�

Sattar Sahib, it may come as a huge shocker to you, but the feeling is mutual. You are trying to shove your head up these Chootiyas assholes whether they want it or not. If you think you need to convince some fcker on a website about Mirza Sahib, then you are not only an idiot, but may I say “Khatam-ul-idiot�, as in Stamp on all idiots. Now get lost. I am happy being defined as in idiot by those who refuse to see beyond the definitions. Who the fuck in the world cares who came before and who came after.

Salim you a$$hole, where were you all these days ? Why are you avoiding unplugged ?

Re: # 171 Stutter-2
"Muhammad (pbuh), Islam, Mirza Sahib..."

Mentioning MGAQ after God's last Rasul and Naby says it all for you! How dare you mention an imposter along with a truthful messenger of God? Mirza couldn't even fight with his own wife, leave alone the Bristish colonists!

"For Ahmadis, Mirza Sahib was a prophet just like Jesus, Solomon, David were prophets."

For Ahmadis, NOT Muslims, you Q-cumber!

MGAQ couldn't even accomplish a cent's worth for Muslims. Daud and Sulaiman (peace on them) were king Prophets, whereas MGAQ survived on British dole and fleecing of innocents. The winds did not blow as he commanded (he did pass a lot of wind for sure!) nor did he travel in a day the distance one could in a month (he did find a short-cut to Taj-e-Britannia)!

"I am not sure why you want to pitch Mirza Sahib against Muhammad (pbuh). What does one have to do with the other?"

You're UNSURE, you're nothing, and on Judgement Day, THIS will be your fate:

7:37
And who could be more wicked than they who attribute their own lying inventions to God or give the lie to His messages? Whatever has been decreed to be their lot [in life] will be theirs" - till there shall come unto them Our messengers to cause them to die, [and] shall say, "Where, now, are those beings whom you were wont to invoke beside God?"

And [those sinners] will reply, "They have forsaken us!" - and [thus] they will bear witness against themselves that they had been denying the truth.

7:38
[And God] will say: "Join those hosts of invisible beings and humans who have gone before you into the fire!"

[And] every time a host enters [the fire], it will curse its fellow-host - so much so that, when they all shall have passed into it, one after another, the last of them will speak [thus] of the first of them: "O our Sustainer! It is they who have led us astray:. give, them, therefore, double suffering through fire!"

He, will reply: "Every one of you deserves double suffering - but you know it not."

7:39
And the first of them will say unto the last of them: "So you were in no wise superior to us! Taste, then, this suffering for all [the evil] that you were wont to do!"

VERILY, unto those who give the lie to Our messages and scorn them in their pride, the gates of heaven shall not be opened; and they shall not enter paradise any more than a twisted rope can pass through a needle's eye: for thus do We requite such as are lost in sin. (7:41) Hell will be their resting-place and their covering as well: for thus do We requite the evildoers.

Salim (#165),

Your post lacks matter and is full of rhetoric and excuses.

Your views about Ahmadis are based on two chowkies! Is that all? You should read writings of Mirza Sahib or check some references before jumping to conclusions. Ask other Ahamdis if you are not sure. Unless you do that, you are merely making excuses to validate your biases. And this is a shame!

I consider myself an Ahmadi-Muslim. I sometimes abbreviate it as an “Ahmadi� to get the point across. I hope you can come up with something more substantial than this.

Your argument about “overwhelming majority of Muslims� lacks substance. You yourself have formed your opinion on basis of two chowkies … while ignoring millions of Ahmadis. What does “overwhelming majority of Ahmadi-Muslims� think of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? What did Mirza Sahib say on this issue? I hope you have the integrity to think through.

Furthermore, “overwhelming majority of Muslims� may believe what makes sense to them. And I follow Islam the way it makes sense to me … without forcing my interpretation on others. Unfortunately, this is where we part ways.

You continue to claim “finality� … but would not attempt to validate this belief of yours. And yet, you are all to willing to force it on others! I hope you see the irony!

If you base your views on two chowkies, don’t complain if Muslims get demonized because of Osama. You may condemn him … but that does not count! Admittedly, he has struck a chord with numerous Muslims. Simply check with Zee and Urstruly, right here on chowk. Judging by your own criterion, what does this say about Islam?

I have often underscored the utmost respect Ahmadis have for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) … but you remain unconvinced. What do you want? Blood? Or are you merely making excuses? Asking someone to prove his love … while harboring the kind of “keena� and suspicion that you do, is extremely low for a human. You should be ashamed of yourself, Salim.

Kulharee may be in idiot … I hardly ever read and have little interest in his posts. There are several fanatics on chowk and greater cyber space who make hateful comments about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Islam, Mirza Sahib … and I ignore them too. I hope you have something more substantial here …

For Ahmadis, Mirza Sahib was a prophet just like Jesus, Solomon, David were prophets. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will remain the most exalted prophet ever … but I am not sure why you want to pitch Mirza Sahib against Muhammad (pbuh). What does one have to do with the other? You are the one who is being insecure and selfish here … to the point where you want to imprison others over religious differences. And this is the travesty of the ummah in this day and age.

+++

Re #167:

Your views are baseless to begin with (start with the Finality part) … so it matters little what you do or do not think.

Once again, get over the issue of “several Qadianis� … unless you want to accept Islam as defined by “several Muslims�.

yar salim the joos and hindians are honest about their tribalism...they dont talk universalism but employ tribal techniques. nothing wrong with tribalism..its very effective

# 165 {"That often happens when one learns knew facts that one"}

should be

That often happens when one learns new facts that one