Restoring the Civil Rights of Ahmadis

All laws that discriminate people based on their religious beliefs should be expunged from the Pakistan constitution. The 2nd Amendment is an albatross around the neck of the country.

#109 Posted by Kulharee on June 17, 2008 2:33:39 pm
{" Salim Chuhan is an idiot ...
My open challenge to Salim Chuhan to prove me wrong about what I have said above."}

Kulharee,
I don't know who is the bigger idiot - the alleged one or the one who alleges someone is an idiot and then launches an open challenge to prove himself wrong?

{"Salim Chuhan ... has never visited an Ahmadi masjid or any interfaith Ahmadi gathering, nor has he known any Ahmadi in real life."}

Kulharee,
I have at least four good Qadiani friends - both male and female. Of course, either they are more civilized than you or perhaps they belong to another sect of Qadianis who do not believe in hurling insults, profanity, abuse, and filthy comments about Our Holy Prophet (PBUH).

My main reason for having contempt for the Qadiani faith is your frequent and despicable manner of insulting, cursing, and ridiculing My Holy Prophet (PBUH). I do not think that most Qadianis agree with you in your awful and uncivilized behavior.

KARACHI: Groom’s father acquitted in couple murder case



By Ishaq Tanoli


KARACHI, June 17: The additional district and sessions judge-V, Central, Tasneem Sultana, on Tuesday acquitted the father of the deceased groom in the double murder case of a newly-wed couple since both parties jointly filed a compromise application in the court.

The prosecution said that Hafiz Shaikh Mohammad Azeem and his bride, Beenish, were found dead in mysterious circumstances the next morning of their wedding night in their North Nazimabad apartment in the Taimuria police limits on Aug 11, 2007.

The investigation officer of the New Karachi Industrial Area police station, Khalid Khan, had nominated the deceased groom’s father, Shaikh Abdul Majeed, as the main accused in the case.

Both parties, however, reached an out-of-court settlement and filed a compromise application on May 21 in the trial court under Section 345(2) of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says that the offences punishable under Sections of the Pakistan Penal Code specified in the table (which includes Qatl-i-Amd registered under Section 302), with the permission of the court before which any prosecution for such offence is pending, be compounded by the heirs of the victims.
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what civil rights are you pakis talking about. Here is a murder and no one has been charged. In a country where murder is not a crime, what is the concept of civil rights. It is time that pakis stop pretending to be civilised.

YLH,

Can you tell me who from BBC interviewed you and on what date.

I checked the BBC web site and could not find any transcripts.

#112 Posted by mikexxxxxx

.... as two-nation theory died after Bangla Desh creation.

I didn't know East Pakistan became part of bhindia in 1971 instead of remaining a separate nation from bhindis.

YLH,

Good to see you back here with your anti non-violence posts. A man who considers jinnah as a hero, jinnah the man who created teh TNT under which pakistan continue to vex, the man who initiated the killings through direct action, the country taht has ethnically cleansed all the other religions that made up 15 percent at teh time of creation, well we all know what can be expected of you regarding Gandhi.

By teh way tell me which BBC program has reported your interview.

Re: # 85

Masadi,

Thanks very much for answering my question.

I have a very similar take on this subject.

Mahomed Ali Jinnah was the butcher who organized the "Direct Action Day".

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[Excerpted from the chapter “What Are We Here For?� in the book “The Raj� by Lawrence James (1997) – pages 601-605. (Some English word spellings have been replaced with the corresponding American version.) The year was 1946. The date of 16 August 1946 had been designated as the “Direct Action Day� by Mahomed Ali Jinnah.]

No one in India could have had any doubts what the words “Direct Action� would mean when translated on to the streets; if they did then they had only to recollect the Congress protest movements of the past twenty-five years. Even the League’s adherents in London carried sandwich boards proclaiming ‘Pakistan or Perish’ or ‘Muster call to Arms’ as they marched from Blackfriars to Downing Street. These slogans were being taken at face value in India where, even before Jinnah’s appeal, Hindu-Muslim conflict was spreading and becoming more intense. Violence was embedded in Indian political life and, with the Raj clearly coming to the end of its days, it was inevitable that those who regarded themselves as its heirs would fall to blows. Efforts by rival party machines to assert supremacy in areas where there was a balance between Hindus and Muslims were a major source of turmoil. In the Hindu state of Alwar (Rajasthan) there was a spate of commotions during the first half of 1946, when Muslim activists attempted to arouse their fellow believers, the Meos. Crowds armed with lathis and guns gathered, a district magistrate’s camp was attacked and schools were disrupted as agents tried to inject sectarian fervors in their pupils. (49)

During May tension between Hindus and Muslims increased in the Punjab, where both sides were laying in arms and private political armies were drilling. In Jalandhar, knives and lathis were being hoarded and stones piled on roofs, together with bags filled with sand and red pepper. (50) Trouble was coming; of this everyone was certain, and the evidence could be read in the newspapers or heard on the wireless. Communal riots broke out in Bombay in April and Ahmadabad on 3 July, when 39 were killed and 260 wounded in four days of disturbances. A Hindu procession passing a mosque was the signal for a sectarian battle in Dacca on 2 July, in which mosques were burned and temples desecrated. Fear and rancor combined to create an atmosphere in which rumors of real and fictional outrages sparked off sudden explosions. The alleged rape of a Muslim girl by a Sikh in Abbottabad provoked the firing of a Sikh gurdwara (temple) and the retaliatory murder of several Muslims. (51) Indian troops stationed at Jhansi became involved in heated rows after listening to wireless bulletins, and there were reports of communal friction among units serving in Burma. (52)

It had been hoped that the army might somehow remain immune from the sectarian contagion. At the end of March, Southern Command had undertaken a discreet enquiry into the temper of Indian officers of all religions. After hearing their views, it was concluded that the soldiers’ reactions to large-scale communal disorder would depend on their officers. Their loyalty was to the army, although some expressed a reluctance to command forces ordered to suppress communal riots. (53) Auchinleck toom little comfort from this. He was convinced that Muslim and Hindu soldiers would refrain from firing into mobs of their co-religionists, and said as much when questioned on the matter by the chiefs of staff in London on 13 August.he rejected, however, a Joint Intelligence Staff assessment that India was plainly heading towards a civil war which the Indian army could no longer prevent. (54)

Wavell and his provincial governors were also facing up to the unthinkable: that the Raj no longer possessed the will and wherewithal to keep the peace. This was Wavell’s conclusion after he had listened to the views of his provincial governors on 8 August. Sir Evan Jenkins, the recently appointed Governor of the Punjab, believed that its Indian ministry lacked the nerve to disband the province’s growing private militia and that serious communal troubles would soon occur in the cities. Sir Frederick Burrows, the Governor of Bengal and a former president of the National Union of Railwaymen, did not expect serious mischief during Jinnah’s day of action, which was just as well for the local police could no longer be depended upon. Wavell was gloomily realistic: Congress now controlled three-fourths of India and was unassailable. If there was a trial of strength with the Raj, then the knowledge that the British departure was now predetermined would sway police loyalty towards those who would inherit power and patronage. (55) Having weathered the tempests of February and March, the Indian government faced a fresh storm of even greater ferocity.

It broke on 16 August in Calcutta. Trouble had been expected, at least by Eastern Command’s intelligence assessors, and four British, one Jt and one Gurkha battalion backed by the tanks of the 25th Dragoons were standing by in readiness for upheavals. (56) But, when the day of action began, they were still in their barracks on the city’s outskirts. Huseyn Suhrawady, Bengal’s Prime Minister and a future premier of Pakistan, had ordered a public holiday for the 16th which guaranteed a large Muslim turn-out. During the morning there were scuffles whenever Hindu shopkeepers refused to close their businesses. At four in the afternoon, thousands of Muslims converged on the Ochterlony monument (a Muslim police intelligence officer estimated the crowd at 500,000, a Hindu colleague at 30,000) to hear a series of provocative speeches. Suhrawady proclaimed the beginning of the struggle for Muslim emancipation. There was nothing to fear, he assured his audience: ‘I have made the necessary arrangements with the police not to interfere.’ (57) These words must have made many hearts leap for joy – there were many goondas (gangsters) in the crowd who were to take a leading part in the slaughter, looting and arson which followed.

The rally was a signal for the killing to commence. Muslim gangs roamed the streets during the afternoon, evening and night murdering Hindus. The victims were beaten, stabbed and their corpses sometimes mutilated, usually in alleyways. Many were Biharis who worked as milkmen, rickshaw wallahs, carters and doormen. Following techniques developed over the past decade, the murder gangs would dissolve the moment they saw squads of policemen or soldiers, fleeing into side streets and alleys. Not that the assassins had much to fear from the police; during his tour of the city, Burrows was horrified to find policemen standing by as a mob bludgeoned to death three individuals. One shot from aBritish sergeant sent the crowd scattering. Strangely, Burrows denied that the police had been ‘fixed’ by Suhrawady and his League cronies, and blamed their indifference on fear of being criticized in the press and by politicians if they opened fire. (58)

By the early hours of 17 August the police had lost control over much of the northern part of the city, where many buildings were on fire. By now Hindus were taking promiscuous revenge and casualties were mounting. Troops were deployed to patrol the streets, backed by tanks which had ‘a considerable moral effect’ on the crowds. It took six days to restore order, during which the army fired 2,000 rounds at the elusive bands of assassins, killing 115. the total casualties for the communal massacres were estimated to be at least 4,000 dead and 10,000 wounded. Among the survivors were a small party of Hindus and Muslims, including women and children, who attached themselves to a British businessman. He guided his flock through streets littered with overturned cars and burnt rickshaws until they found a place of safety. (59) Their faith in him and his courage were a metaphor for a Raj which was fast passing away. In its place was a government forced to make moral compromises: there no recriminations when Wavell interviewed Suhrawady, the man who bore a considerable responsibility for the killings. The politician was merely told to do his duty in the future. But to whom did a party boss like Suhrawady owe his duty – certainly not to his King Emperor and the people of India.

The Calcutta massacres opened a new phase in the communal struggle. Refugees from the city fled to their native Bihar with horror stories which inflamed passions and triggered random, retaliatory murders of Muslims there. But the pattern of slaughter could be stopped by resolute men and tough measures. On 26 November, Hugh Martin was travelling by train through Bihar with a detachment of the 1st Madras Regimentwhen he heard of an attack on the Muslim village of Nagarnausa. Taking a jeep and a lorry, he led a well-armed party of sixteen soldiers to confront a mob of 5,000 Hindus about to descend on the village. The outnumbered soldiers opened fire without orders and the crowd fled after twenty had been killed. It returned again at night and was dispersed again by shooting. In all, 1,600 lives had been saved and there was no further trouble in the district. Nonetheless, Martin had to face a clamor from militant Hindus who alleged that he was a second Dyer. (60)

Bombay’s response to the events in Calcutta was a steep rise in communal violence. During September, 471 were killed and over 1,300 wounded in a series of small incidents in which bands of assassins sallied out of alleyways, stabbed their victims and melted away. The city’s Muslims were also disturbed by tales that the Sikhs were now Congress’s ‘shock troops’. (61) At Agra ten died after Muslims ambushed Sikh and Hindu religious processions. (62) In what would turn out to be a sinister development in the tit-for-rat killings, a train bound from Cuttack to Madras was found to have the word ‘Mussalmans’ chalked on one of its carriages. This identification had been made, it was believed, to enable Hindu acid-throwers to find their targets. (63) Preparations for a trial of strength were well advanced in the North-West Frontier Province, where uniformed Muslim League National Guardsmen were parading openly and ex-INA men and released RIN mutineers were being secretly drilled as Jambazes (holy warriors). (64)

The worst trouble was in eastern Bengal, where there were sectarian killings in the city of Dacca and the Noakhali district. Here occurres a rural pogrom in which Muslim gangs burned Hindu villages, murdered men, kidnapped women and raped them. The death toll stood at 300 on 10 September in what was a carefully planned campaign of terror, contrived both to frighten Hindus generally and to expel them from a province which had been designated as part of a yet-to-be-defined Muslim state. After making allowances for the spontaneous element in the Calcutta massacres, it is possible to detect the same pattern of cause and effect there: the city’s non-Muslim population had to be intimidated or driven out before it could become, as Jinnah wished, a part of Pakistan. Certainly the situation in the summer of 1946 demanded that the League flexed its muscles in a region where its pretensions were strongly challenged by Congress and the Communists, some of whom wanted a separate Bengali republic.

Spiralling Hindu-Muslim violence generated fear and loathing in equal parts. In November 1946, the Muslim Nawab of Bhopal felt certain that his fellow believers faced extermination. (65) At this time a black propaganda document was circulating among Hindus, which outlined details of how the Muslims were about to seize control over India. Pakistan would be their base, and their methods included the murder by a ‘secret League Gestapo’ of Congress leaders and Muslims who refused to join the League and the destruction of Hindu and Sikh temples. Systematic sabotage would paralyze urban life and Hindu women would be abducted, raped and converted. (66) Lurid images appeared on Hindu leaflets which showed prominent Leaguers washing their hands in blood and breasts being sliced off women. The League’s newspaper, Dawn, printed photographs of Muslim bodies. (67) It was impossible for the authorities to suppress such material, and even if they had the means, nothing could have halted the diffusion of rumors or the eyewitness tales of the refugees. Nor could the contagion be contained by the personal appeals of India’s leaders who, often at great risk, visited the troubled areas and remonstrated with their inhabitants. Hugh Martin was moved by the dignity and courage shown by Nehru when he visited refugees in Bihar, including a Muslim wrestler whose family had been murdered. (68)

May be people on this favor multi-nation theory as two-nation theory died after Bangla Desh creation.

How about Shia, Sunni, Sindhi, Taliban, Boloch, Punjabi and Pashto nations theory?

Elite and filthy rich leadership of our jamaat e Ahmadiyya want preferential treatment all over the world.

Actually they are the one who attack , blackmail and ridicule simple muslims of this world for not accepting their version of Islam and for not paying 10 percent to them.

Our Jamaat e Ahmadiyya has lot of land and resources in Africa, why don't they go there and create an Ahmadiyya welfare state.

Why is our jamaat Ahmadiyya dying and doing all this propaganda to get settled in ultra rich but alien cultures of Europe and North America. .??

Following is one wonderful and intelligent response, which knowledgable izuber wrote in " Twenty three students expelled "

Being an insider born Ahmadi I agree with the point of view of izuber

izuber wrote ,


"Adopt a dont ask dont tell policy, no one asks you if you are a Qadiani or not until YOU provoke.
Qadianis brought this upon themselves when they stopped the train filled with students and demonstrated their terrorist acts at a time when Pakistan was much more safer and better.
You Qadianis brought upon yourself.
If you live like people then you would be treated like people but once you began to demonstrate your Qadianiat on the streets and in public you will be curbed.
Take it or leave it but this is what Qadianis have qualified themselves for since the attack on students traveling by train and passing through Rabwa.
As long as you are able to maintain yourselves within prescribed limits you have no problems so mind yourself instead of blaming others for the problems you created yourself. If you were to live in Vatican and started a new congregation of Catholic Christians you will face the same.
Continue crying bloody murder and keep seeking asylum to UK, USA & Canada. "

Salim Chuhan is an idiot who has never visited an Ahmadi masjid or any interfaith Ahmadi gathering, nor has he known any Ahmadi in real life. This goes for a whole load of other idiots who pretend to be experts on what Ahmadi faith entails.

My open challenge to Salim Chuhan to prove me wrong about what I have said above.

salim
"Qadianis have every right to practice their religion, but should never be allowed to pursue their insidious role of disinformation against Islam"

yar salim, the quadianis were recruiting from muslims. IF they started with disclaimer that they were proposing something which is not islam, they would not have gotten very far at all, so they chose this approach imo. it is very dangerous for folks to leave islam or porpose leaving islam.

Salim_chauhan,

You say that "Qadianis have every right to practice their religion, but should never be allowed to pursue their insidious role of disinformation against Islam".

I hope you will allow that there are differences of opnion on what and what does not constitute disinformation about Islam(even when some opinions may be more objective). The question is how to handle those differences ?

In other words if a Qadiani thinks that his view of Islam is correct and if somebody disagrees then how is this difference to be resolved or handled ?

Should it be resolved by the state, by the Government imposing what is considers to be the right view or should this be left to be resolved at the level of individuals i.e any individual is free to believe that Qadianis are not true muslims, just as another individual is free to believe that they are.

If you think the state should impose it's view then does it not follow that the state has the right to impose religious views on the population at large and is that not a recipe for endless religious conflict ?( which is why the separation of church and state was first invented).

I see that Mantolives is back to his pastime of blaming Gandhi and continues his cut and paste for one more time. :-)

Now some facts.


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(5) I believe that interdining or intermarriage are not necessary for promoting national unity. That dining together creates friendship is contrary to experience. If this was true there would have been no war in Europe.... Taking food is as dirty an act as answering the call of nature. The only difference is that after answering call of nature we get peace while after eating food we get discomfort. Just as we
perform the act of answering the call of nature in seclusion so also the act of taking food must also be done in seclusion.
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Assuming he has said the above in 1922, the fact remains that he encouraged and blessed his son to marry out of caste in 1933.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/mag/2003/02/02/stories/2003020200680300.htm

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Rajaji's opposition to the Quit India movement made ordinary Congressmen abuse and even — at a meeting in Bombay — throw black tar at him. The Mahatma, characteristically, would not allow political disagreement to come in the way of personal friendship. Their ties had been strengthened by the marriage, back in 1933, of Gandhi's son Devadas to C.R.'s daughter Lakshmi.
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C.R is a Brahmin and Gandhi belonged to the trader caste.

arjun,

stop your quack quack and duck waddle. Please contribute if you have something interesting to say. Mindless profanity does not cut it.