Restoring the Civil Rights of Ahmadis

Dear Chowk,

there has never been contest about Qadiyanis being Pakistanis. Indeed they should enjoy the same lack of basic civil rights as any other Pakistani does.

I feel that the overwhelming argument on this issue has been whether:

1. Qadiyanis feel that all muslims should accept Mirza sahib as a prophet.

2. Is belief in the Mirza sufficient for one to be considered a muslim?

3. If a muslim does not believe in the prophethood of Mirza, is one considered a bad Muslim?

you know, these type of issues. The rest is just muddied water.

The persecution of Ahmadis even under the present mangled constitution is patently unconstitutional.


Manto..for someone who claims to be a lawyer, you don't know much do you?

It's constitutional if it's in the constitution. period..end of story..

regardless of what jinnah said in his aug 11th speech at godforsakenabad, discrimination against amhadis is part of the paki constitution..

the fact that you're afraid to reveal your name is proof of that..

forget about jinnah..he's dead..the reality is that you live in a country that killed hundreds of thousands of bengali muslims and didn't prosecute a single person..not one..and these weren't ahmadis either..

Fucking chickens.....

Article without disclosing the name because of fear of persecution - my foot. If you are such a chicken then you probably deserve that. Those who do not have the courage to stand for their cause and allow others to persecute deserve that.

I think the thing missing in Ahmadis is lack of character because courage makes a bloody big part of character.

Bloody morons... Talking about freedom of expression and afraid of putting their ass on line for the sake of it. Hypocrates of first order......

Yasser Latif Hamdani as Chowk is like Salman Rushdie wearing a wig.

Civil Rights, yes but religious rights, yes as well BUT reinventing Islam, prolly NO.

Sorry Yasser, u need to convince ur fellow compatriots on that. If u believe in democracy which is 'rule by majority' then u have to abide by that rule.

P.S: If u cant put ur name fearing persecution here how can we belive that u r actually 'participating' in the lawyers' movement?

What is this majority rule nonsense? Majority of Baluch want to separate, and majority of Sindhis would like to send all the non-Sindhi back home. Majority of Punjabis think that the rest of the country is there to be subservient to them. So think before opening making grand claims of democracy rules. Majority of Pakistani don’t give two damns about who the last prophet or the last goddess is, it is only those who have nothing else going for them (usually unemployed, uneducated, mal nourished, insecure idiots) and they pick up fights in the name of dead people. They are led by bastard Mullahs who use these idiots to earn a living through collecting funds to spread their filth. It’s always thugs from Jamat Harami.

I don't think Yaseer is the writer of this piece.

Re: # 1

The questions you raised are genuine and can be simplified as:

1. All Muslims should accept prophesized Jesus as a prophet.

2. Is belief in the Messiah and Mahdi sufficient for one to be considered a Muslim?

3. If a Muslim does not believe in the prophet hood of prophesized Jesus, is one considered a bad Muslim?

Indeed, the rest is just muddied water.

yar i dont want to offend my ahmedi and other muslim friends, but something has been bothering me. someone asked why ahmedis insist on being muslims?

this is an interesting question, since i understand that denouncing islam as a religion is apostasy. induvidually, it may be somewhat ok. but if a new guy forms a reform movement for muslims, there is no way he can call it not islam. how will rest of the society respond to a large group "converting" out of islam? so therefore, the reformer must call it islam out of necessity. the choice is not to have any reform movement.

so to me it sounds like a catch-22 kinda situation. if someone comes up with reformist ideas appealing to a sizable number of muslims, what would be the right thing to do? if you call it islam, that would be sullying the brand. otherwise its a dangerous thing...but otoh you must listen to gods calling about the right thing to do and spread your message.

Jang Yaar, for a kafir, you make a lot of sense. I once went to visit my uncle in Chitral. He worked for the power authority. We went to pray Jumma nimaz in town, and the Mullah was going on and on about how bad Mirzaees are (this was early 80s – Soviets were in Afghanistan) and what should be done to them. I asked a fellow next to me, are there any Mirzaees in Chitral, and he said, not in Chitral but there are plenty in Punjab and Afghanistan.

Jang Yaar, for a kafir, you make a lot of sense. I once went to visit my uncle in Chitral. He worked for the power authority. We went to pray Jumma nimaz in town, and the Mullah was going on and on about how bad Mirzaees are (this was early 80s – Soviets were in Afghanistan) and what should be done to them. I asked a fellow next to me, are there any Mirzaees in Chitral, and he said, not in Chitral but there are plenty in Punjab and Afghanistan.

VRV and Arjun, I do not believe that Manto wrote this piece because he always spells MAJ’s first name as “Mahomed�. There are a couple of other points as well – which I explained on the UP.

And believe it, there are plenty of lawyers who are out there risking their necks out in this movement. However, Manto being a REAL follower of MAJ, is quite unlikely to be in that august group!

Jinnah, after all, had always a highly amicable relationship with those in power!

These lawyers seem to be made from a different cloth! I applaud them, if not necessarily their leaders.

Today, 4 Shia nimazis were murdered by a hand grenade thrown into a Shia mosque in Dera Ismail Khan. The debate should move away from civil rights to plain civility. When there are animals running amok in the country, there is little hope for human rights.

Where is the article?

"Page Not Found" is all that I found.

Chowk Editors, where are you?

Ras

[Chowk Editors, where are you?]

Ras sahib, in the same old place!

Gushalkhane meiN!

Revision to the Author's introduction
(The writer is a lawyer and a participant in the lawyer's movement. He has asked to keep his identity secret for the fear of persecution.)

Correction:(The writer is a liar and a participant in the lawyer's movement. He has asked to keep his identity secret because he/she lacks the spine.)

The author has raised important questions pertaining to freedom of faith and right to equal treatment irrespective of caste, creed and colour. It is Ahmedis in Pakistan, could be Muslims in the West, Tibetans in China and so on. It would be worthwhile if people could focus on that rather than speculate on the identity of the author or his motives for remaining anonymous.

Regards

Bhatti sahib and izuber,

The contents of the article need to be discussed on own merit - irrespective of the identity of whoever wrote this piece.

The atmosphere of persecution in Pakistan is nobody's figment of imagination - it is very real! So is the Hudood ordinance and the persecutions under the apostasy laws.

Get real, yaar! Although I lack the expertise to say whether that spirit of persecution is intrinsic to the spirit of Islam or merely a flawed implementation, you guys need to focus more on the problem than beating up on the messenger - whoever it be!

Kaun kehta hai aisa?!

Ye jamaana keh rahaa hai!!