Local Liberal Dribble

I mean that's how I perceived it, but god knows which angles I see things from, sometimes things I see have nothing to do with what anyone else wants me to see.....
Nadeem, very good points about the emphasis on "psychological" not just ideological -- these past few years I've confronted this discipline, its brought me to my senses, I think we all suffer from this or that, from time to time...don't we?
I love the way your writing can make us laugh, actually, its quite something -- somehow I don't find it cruel, but that's maybe because I like German poetry now.
In the nearest language, it always works.

Interesting article.

I liked the bit about the Azan ...he was psychologically destroyed ...and he just didn't care about anything anymore.

I like how you delicately handle the words about the rape, and challenge with the 'girlfriends, sex, alcohol' -- sensitive.
In the nearest language, it always works.

Its a good article though Mr. NFP is overly harsh on Shoib Mansoor. Firstly, Mr Shoib Mansoor's effort was not directed towards giving a freudian cum marxist explanation of religous fanatiscism, rather he targeted those who already were religus....After all the hard liners draw their human resource from people who beleive in religon ardently....
Regarding religous fanaticism being an outcome of pyschology and social circumstances....
Well partly true.....
The fanaticism is also an outcome in the present times, of the international developments and the way those developments are interpreted by both local and international media and how international heavy weights react...
Frankly if in tribal areas some one's brother is killed by security forces, he wont think about the international definition of terrorism before blowing himself up...
Moreover not all terrorists and suicide bombers are from poorer households....
so while socio economic conditions are one factor, these can not explain the entire phenonmenon....
Another aspect is that this brand of Islamic fundamentalism started gaining ascendency in 1980s.....
Once again this timing points towards a large role of international developmens....
it is the interaction of many factors which may at times be mutually reinforceable which account for extremism...
extremism becomes dominant in an ideology under particular circumstances...which are local as well as international

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

HP,

You seem to be a confused fellow. ANP and PML-N are not exactly secular parties.....ANP's manifestor clearly states that their faith is Islam and that this is a major part of their manifestor, while Nawaz declared himself Ameerul Momineen when he was PM and has very strong tendencies towards Islamization. Even Zardari uses the religion of Benazir rather than the religion of Islam, so he too is using a faith...albeit a twisted one. For you to speculate that these election results demonstrate Pakistan's anti-Islamic tendencies is a real stretch.

Also, you pay lip service to wanting to discuss Islam's various answers but on the other hand you seem to be saying that the point of view of those who a practicing Muslims is insane and therefore not worth discussing. I'm afraid you've already given up the facade and have demonstrated that you're just one of those people who doesn't want to let facts and truth get in the way of hating Islam and Muslims.

Dude, HP you just seem to have a gripe against anyone Muslim. You say the Pakistan army is a bunch of wusses, but you seem to be lacking the stones to even say what you think in public, while also claiming that the majority of Pakistan thinks the way you do. In my view, you're the confused wuss.

My concept of ghairat is to not be a boot licking house nigger who hates his own identity and background more than the goras who colonized him did.

Re: # 60
HP says: "Okay that’s fine. If you two insist, can you spell out what the thought at the other end of Islamic spectrum is and why that qualifies as logical?"
and in #56 HP says: "[...]The best course is to fight what mullah preaches with the facts right out of this world and not from some imaginary make believe world."

HP the main thing I was objecting to in your post #56 was that you claim that the worldview of the Mullahs is "imaginary" and "make believe" and thus not worth arguing against. Don't you think, even if you don't agree with it, that it's better to study the content and origins of the philosophy that you are opposed to rather than just dismissing it as crazy? What made me think about this recently was reading about Dr. Fadl's criticisms of Al-Zawahiri.

#72 Posted by Zyxius
“You're the one saying that those who you disagree with are insane and therefore cannot be reasoned with!! Now you say that if the other side holds this same point of view about you....its unfair? There is your hypocrisy right there! Also....personally I don’t believe you won’t say what you think in public because of this reason...I feel it has more to do with the fact that you realize you are just a fringe burger boy who's out of touch with reality and too scared to to speak in public IN PERSON.”

How am I the fringe when secular parties in Pakistan have won overwhelming majority in the recent elections? Actually, the Islamists in Pakistan are the fringe and not just now but from the very beginning. They never had any support from the people and that’s why they rely on laws enacted under martial law. The cowards know they can’t win any debate because they only have some empty slogans.

What is this childish fancy about saying something in public? Is the spitting match your preference?
I am asking you to present what Islamists are actually promoting and you are issuing challenges for some personal confrontation. What system of governance Islamists have, what is their economic system, and how they intend to handle crimes and other civil litigation issues. These are just the starting points.

“did you realize that the motto of the Pakistan army has always been, "Jihad fi sabiillah"? Our boyys have always defended Pakistan in the name of Allah and Islam..”

I know Zia added jihad but when was the last time “Our boys” won anything? Which part of Pakistan they have ever defended? Lost East Pakistan, lost Kargil. Are they even willing to defend the country, if the US or NATO armies enter Pakistan? This bunch of wusses, have a track record of surrendering not fighting. The army defends Allah and Islam but loses Pakistani territory left and right. Your boys clearly are cowards who bark on the unarmed Pakistanis but when it comes down to facing the real armies, they leave the defense of Pakistan on Allah and Islam and run to the nearest enemy army officer to surrender.

Do these wusses represent your idea of ghairat?

Salman Rushdie. When asked if 'fundamentalism was the root cause of terror', he replied
'no, they both have a common root cause. Fear of sexuality, especially fear of the female as a sexual person in the psyche of some believers.'


What nonsense Since when Rushdie became a booker awarded writer to Freudean clinical Psychologist to be quoted /taken seriously .

Fundoo both Moulanas Mormons take more than one wives .

Rushdie is mysogynist to blame all problems fom fndoo to terorist on women

May be b/c his own asexuality fear of Padma and girls he liked who left him lonely

....tahmed32 sahib whose dad.....

#79 by Zyxius

Thats right man...why let facts stand in the way when some dude on the net says otherwise. Did I tell you my daddy was the first man on Mars?

Yaar I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but when I as an Indian know that the motto of the Paki army is indeed "Jihad fi Sabilillah", tahmed32 sahib dad was an armyman surely should be knowing it.

#78 Harish,

Thats right man...why let facts stand in the way when some dude on the net says otherwise. Did I tell you my daddy was the first man on Mars?

#77 by zeemax

I think tahmed32 sahib knows what the motto of the Paki army is. If I'm not mistaken, his dad was a Brigadier in the Paki army.

#74 Posted by tahmed32,

Err ... sorry to jump in. But zyxius is right:

The motto of the Pakistani Army reads: "Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah". Translated into English, it means "Faith, Piety, to strive in the path of Allah".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Army#Motto

Actually, I just remembered that I'm thinking of Hamidm rather than you (living in Detroit). Scratch that.

Its still a fact that that is the Pakistan Army motto regardless of whether you are aware of it or not. And people who die on duty in our armed forces are called Shaheed. One would think that the people who enjoy this protection would in turn have some respect.

Tahmed32,

"I never heard of this kind of rubbish from anyone other than mullahs."

If I recall, you live in Detroit with your religious wife who is an ex-classmate and major fan of Imran Khan...but I digress....just because you haven't heard of it living in Detroit, doesn't mean that it isn't a fact you retard. Check it out from someone who is actually in Pakistan and knows the army.

Zyxius #73 "the motto of the Pakistan army has always been, "Jihad fi sabiillah"?"

I never heard of this kind of rubbish from anyone other than mullahs. Zia the hypocrite (who happily slaughtered palestinians in what the latter now call Black September) tried to introduce this mullah rubbish into the army as part of his strategy of using Islam to maintain is illegal rule of Pakistan. And even he failed, and the best he could come up with was help mullahs take over from the true freedom fighters (ahmed shah massoud) in Afghanistan - the genesis of the suicide bombers and other rogues seeking to carve out pieces of Pakistan for themselves - again abusing Islam for this purpose.