And then there was The Impeachment Issue…

You are what you speak, so you show your reality to the world at this chowk, at least you removed your cover and came out.
Good ridding.
Who cares to communicate with the one who is diseased with fitnah and shows his class which is as low as one can go.
Its shameful that such characters consider themselves Pakistani, inshaAllah God will get us rid of such characters one day by either straightening them out or removing them.
Even Dr. Jummah would not have been able to fix such heads that are hollow and brainless.

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You must be kidding. It was difficult to find a single Sindhi professional (Doctor etc) in Karachi as well as in the provincial services although Karachi is Sindh. Same thing in Federal Services.


Either you are not familiar with the ground realities or you wish to start a new session while this could be substantiated that your innuendos are culmination of none other but pure hatred at it's best.
Find out about

1) Dr. Naseer Shaikh a Sindhi and was well known as a pioneer physician/surgeon in Karachi and also reknowned internationally.

2) Dr. Memon also a Sindhi, the head of Opthalmology at JPGMC also a reknowned physician/surgeon who cured hundreds of thousands of people without distinction for ethnicity while he happens to be a close acquaintance of mine and also performed cataract surgery for my mother in the early 70's.

Other than Physicians/Surgeons, there were other intellect before and during the 70's that you bring up based upon your unknown innendos, to name a few:

1)Pir Ali Mohammed Rashidi
2)Abdul Wahid Sindhi

while no one can cancel their contributions to Pakistan in general and Karachi-Sindh in particular.

You are encouraged to research before you open your big mouth and attempt to spread the hatred that you are engaged in, this is what some like to do as they are the creation of the mindset which believes in "divide and rule", however some try but did not do their homework before striking their pen.

Also look up and find out who was the appointed as the first Authority of Port Qasim while it was envisioned, planned and then constructed, a very dedicated, well educated Sindhi individual who also happens to be a close acquaintance and since he does not allow publicity of his name based on his humility I will not name him here, but he came from a modest Sindi family and disliked fame which keeps me from mentioning his name.

Your writing in this regard happens to be quite venomous however you should remember that no matter how much people try to inflame Sindhis and Mohajirs against each other due to the existence of enough people with wisdom and tolerance such attempts will not come true not at least as long as people who have seen history being written are still around with an intact memory of it. Those who try to create fitnah thinking that they will remain on the sidelines as innocent bystanders shall have their day either in this life and if not definitely in the hereafter.

Throwing in the "chotti yey" creation of yours once again brings your true picture to surface which cannot be considered any less than a fitnah creator while the performance is not one that reflects any loyalty to the cause of having an independent nation for Muslims of Sub-continent and finds you busy trying to undermine this cause at it's best which places such characters under the label of Traitors.

Either you were not around when Pakistan became an independent nation or you did not even make an effort to learn about it with sincerity being from a later generation and you find it amusing to become part of those who are too busy creating fitnah and dividing the people of Pakistan creating stories to place two ethnicities against other, which is shameful.

When you start a business you look for people who are able and available to hit the ground running, you dont wait to start the business till graduates of a given class are out of school so once they are available you will start your business unless you are too keen to only engage in a business when the given class has graduated while such business owners are non-existent in the world.

Yes I have quoted the book, "but" not you to derive support of "your innuendos" from it, nor am I the author of the book, but you certainly appear to be one that wishes to promote hatred among Sindis & Mohajirs so that "you" of the unknown ethnic origin to me and certainly from a third ethnic background can gain while, the two become engage in against each other, quite a conspirator you come out to be, but you will find some who will tell you so on your face.

Stop this fitnah creation of yours Zeemax mian as you happen to be the pioneer fasadi of this decade acting in the manner you are.

Who can deny the fact that in the early days of Pakistan and even up until the famous 70's those who worked hard to acquire education and sat in parks at night under the light of lamp posts or sat at home studying the long hot nights under a hurricane-lamp, the lantern or a candle did not work hard to build their educational foundation, nearly every ambitious ethnic who did not quit under the given hardships of those days achieved and all those who worked hard achieved and those were the loyalists of Pakistan who strived hard to work for the nation in many ways, most of those generations did not go away to Europe or USA to seek better lives but were committed to do something to enhance their very own country Pakistan.

I recall numerous occasions when a child was asked what they want to be when they grow up, those who wanted to go for teaching and asked why always said because they want to educate the future nation of Pakistan, those who went for medicine always said they would like to serve their Pakistani bretheren.

The book you chose to taunt me is one I have read before offering to you and know all what it discusses and still offered, it was not meant for you to seek fortification of your innuendos to see Mohajirs as some dacoits who took over the wealth you or yours were sitting with over there when they arrived. Whatever little they had when they migrated either they lost it or brought it to Pakistan, you should at least bring yourself to Pakistan with some good intentions and get over this rat race of ahieving superiority by the blame game and allow for the Mohajirs to let them surface their grievances in a democratic manner rather than attempting to supress their voice by desigining your own democracy which has no legs to stand on.

It is a well known fact that there are good bad and ugly in all ethnicities I encourage you to grow up and be accounted in the earliest one rather than acting alike the others, but you as an individual make this difference as to what you come out as, every individual counts and adds up to represent the voice of a nation, so its your choice if you make your life useful and help yourself while helping others or stand alone at some corner screaming your theories that spread no more than hatred. I would wish to see "you" at a better place doing better than you are, specially since you appear to demonstrate the ability to do so and conclude this discussion where you chose to "prove points" and I don't since the main point is the love among those who chose to build a nation of brotherhood and not merely proving right or wrong against each other neck and neck.

As a proud Mohajir+Urdu Speaking I am very satisfied that I never in my life committed an act against anyone based on ethnic origins or belief and shall seek my way to my grave being content to this extent.

May the one you believe in bless you with more wisdom, ameen.

#425 Posted by MatloobZaman Re: # 422

There was no real Muhajir domination in the pre-1974 period as much as I know and having commonly interacted with people of all ethnic backgrounds in the very city of Karachi ...

You must be kidding. It was difficult to find a single Sindhi professional (Doctor etc) in Karachi as well as in the provincial services although Karachi is Sindh. Same thing in Federal Services.

I am not familiar with the 'Chhoti Yey' so enlighten me some with another term.

Siddiqui, Rizvi, Zaidi, Jafferi, Qureshi, Ansari etc ... all end with a 'chhoti yey'.

Should I understand from your quote of 13% that a minority should have no rights and should be degraded and demonized in all manners possible? or, you are just mentioning that because the book states so?

I don't see what is so difficult to understand that if any ethnicity in a Federation of 5 ethnicities gets far more than it's share of Govt jobs in accordance with its population ratio, the extra has to come out of someone else's share - and that creates resentment.

The book was quoted by you, not me. I merely reproduced it and showed it actually proved my point, rather than yours.

Re: # 427 tahmed

Ridiculous posts don't deserve a response better than what you got.

I stand by what I told you, while you not being aware of the facts of the very first stand-off that MQM faces and became involved with armed violence can continue to blabber and its your pen and ink that goes to waste, but I promise to counter your imagination on every post where you consider what you call to be measly excuse since it is not an excuse to began with.

No they did not start it and I know for a fact that they were not armed up until attacked by the ghetto people who identify themselves to be Pakhtoons and are not; it was then, when Altaf challenged all the Urdu speaking/Mohajirs to stop wasting their money in luxuries of life, videos and movies and concentrate on their existence by preparing to defend themselves.

By the way the discussion is about "your" who stared; which brings the million dollar question to the table, WHY? we are discussing about specifics of Karachi, MQM, Sohrab Goth, the so-called Pakhtoons of Sohrab Goth, your assertion that "even if it is true it is still an absurd excuse" EXCUSE ME, come on now start making some sense if you want others to accept your theories of absurdity.

Always remember what may be absurd to you may be entirely relevant to another, and it is possible that you are unaware of the ground facts for which I will grant you the benefit of doubt.

This is when, where and how all the involvement of MQM with firearms began and progressed to a stage that I am not appreciative of nor do I condone such acts beyond self-defense.

It is a standard practice throughout the world to ask why? if something appears wrong, and when there is a why there will be a response to that WHY, either people should stop asking why or be prepared to receive a response accordingly, civilized people don't assume that they can conclude a conversation by calling the other absurd; in between your lines there lies a big WHY which you attempt to carefully reserve as a rain-check.

I hope I have made myself as clear as it gets and it is your prerogative to conclude for your understanding the way you understand, which I have no authority over and you can continue to add absurdity to your understanding. However I am not seeking a certification from your highness of what I am about.

If asking the administration to take action against anti-social elements amounts to starting it then that tells about your understanding of where it all began.
Not being a big time supporter of violence and armed clashes I still insist that MQM's reaction to the so-called Pakhtoons of Sohrab Goth ghetto was absolutely appropriate and should have been even more powerful.
Truth cannot be classified as absurd therefore I must conclude that the understanding of the person who loves to redundantly use the term must be absurd.

What makes you think that if someone is attacked with firearms they should take it silently? I cant imagine if you are attacked you will take it sitting quietly, you cant even digest the reason and call it absurd as well as a standard excuse!!

With regards to your name, God forbid I don't even know your name, I believe you have opted for this nick considering it to be represent what it comes out to be when read, however, if you are offended by my attempt to joke about Tehmed & Langoat I submit my deepest apologies as I cannot carry the burden of having offended another person with me to my grave and hope that you will overlook and forgive me for having joked about the difference of Tehmed & Langoat. I shall wait to hear from you that you did forgive me for having caused the feeling of being humiliated which was not my intention but since you did.

#426 matloobzaman: ridiculing my name is not an argument. nor does it say anything about your ability to write like a man or of the kind of environment you were raised in.

the rest of your post fails to respond to what I wrote, and I repeat that with highlights to help you understand what I am saying:

"you were doing fine in claiming to have nothing to do with mqm until you wrote this standard excuse that apologists for criminals use everywhere."

You are simply repeating the same measly excuse (i.e. "they didnt start it") you used the first time. If you dont understand why this excuse is an absurd one (even if true), and if know one ever taught you not to hide behind such absurd excuses, then ask. But dont merely repeat yourself.

Re: # 423 by tahmed!
"reacting to violence that was inflicted by a given segment generally upon Urdu speaking."

you were doing fine in claiming to have nothing to do with mqm until you wrote this standard excuse that apologists for criminals use everywhere. even if it was true (which it is not, since Pakistanis traditionally had no grudge against "urdu-speakers" and even now dont see mqm's divisive ethnic politics as a national level issue), your argument is absurd (as a bit of common sense will tell you).

And like I said before - dont be so proud of those "urdu speakers" who you say have nothing to do with politics. They were betrayed the nation at the time of its greatest peril - a rogue general in command of the powers of state attacking the very foundations of nationhood, namely the Pakistan Constitution, Basic Rights of ordinary Pakistanis, and an independent Supreme COurt!!

tahmed mian don't be talking about what you don't know, aiwaeen hoshiari baghartay ho!

Listen up, MQM did not become involved with arms-ammuntion and violence till they were first attacked by those who identified themselves as Pakhtoons and were running an underground drug market in Sohrab Goth Karachi, beyond drug running this group of unknown that were also responsible for what was known as Bara market in Karachi, as well as the public transport drivers who intentionally or unintentionally were responsible for deaths of people from all ethnic backgrounds by causing careless traffic accidents were also taking refuge in that given ghetto, while there were several other types of criminals that were being provided safe heaven over there.
When MQM demanded that govt. dismantle the given ghetto people of Urdu speaking background were attacked in general by this group which bears the identity of Pakhtoons (God only knows if they were impostors or real Pakhtoons)while they also consisted of Afghans who originally settled in as refugees. The same group of so-called Pakhtoons was also responsible for burning down the huts of impoverished Biharis who have migrated from Bangladesh and settled in Orangi town where these so-called Pakhtoons picked up and threw in live Biharis in the burning fire of their own huts and numerous were killed.
Now either you don't know what you are attempting to exploit or you wish to justify anything that you see reasonable in your flawed vision, but you are certainly not making any sense in your argument.
Do you really think that you can lead me away from the pride I have in the Urdu Speakers? quite ambitious you are.

My pride extends to also include literate Punjabis, Sindhis Pathans and Baluchis who don't have the habit of magnifying and enlarging problems rather they are the bonding glue of our nation who at every step have tried to repair damages of all types, however I am sad to say that your pride lies elsewhere in accordance with your biases & prejudice which is quite shameful, it is people like you who manage to drive wedges among the people of Pakistan by believing that they can impose on Urdu Speaking Mohajirs while that is not about to come true.

This is the difference between tehmed & langoat.

Re: # 422 By Zeemax
I am glad that you have recognized right from wrong, this is what it takes to mend if anything is falling apart at least I see it as a good gesture.
There was no real Muhajir domination in the pre-1974 period as much as I know and having commonly interacted with people of all ethnic backgrounds in the very city of Karachi be it in the private sector or in govt. establishment.
I am not familiar with the 'Chhoti Yey' so enlighten me some with another term.
Should I understand from your quote of 13% that a minority should have no rights and should be degraded and demonized in all manners possible? or, you are just mentioning that because the book states so?
I would not speculate and shall wait to hear your explanation.

Yes I may have mixed you with the gentleman who expressed at more than one occasion that he is with the police force, although he has a better sense of humor than conventional policemen in Pakistan.

Re: # 422 By Zeemax
I am glad that you have recognized right from wrong, this is what it takes to mend if anything is falling apart at least I see it as a good gesture.
There was no real Muhajir domination in the pre-1974 period as much as I know and having commonly interacted with people of all ethnic backgrounds in the very city of Karachi be it in the private sector or in govt. establishment.
I am not familiar with the 'Chhoti Yey' so enlighten me some with another term.
Should I understand from your quote of 13% that a minority should have no rights and should be degraded and demonized in all manners possible? or, you are just mentioning that because the book states so?
I would not speculate and shall wait to hear your explanation.

Yes I may have mixed you with the gentleman who expressed at more than one occasion that he is with the police force, although he has a better sense of humor than conventional policemen in Pakistan.

#417 matloobzaman: " reacting to violence that was inflicted by a given segment generally upon Urdu speaking."

you were doing fine in claiming to have nothing to do with mqm until you wrote this standard excuse that apologists for criminals use everywhere. even if it was true (which it is not, since Pakistanis traditionally had no grudge against "urdu-speakers" and even now dont see mqm's divisive ethnic politics as a national level issue), your argument is absurd (as a bit of common sense will tell you).

And like I said before - dont be so proud of those "urdu speakers" who you say have nothing to do with politics. They were betrayed the nation at the time of its greatest peril - a rogue general in command of the powers of state attacking the very foundations of nationhood, namely the Pakistan Constitution, Basic Rights of ordinary Pakistanis, and an independent Supreme COurt!!

#421 Posted by MatloobZaman,

I agree 'Muturwa' was (is?) mostly used in a contemptuous manner, while Dhagga and Akhrot/Khar Dimagh are used mostly without contempt.

This has something to do with Muhajir domination (and ethnic nepotism) of pre-1974 when they had 1/3rd of all Govt jobs (the extract from your quoted book refers) against a population of some 13%. I remember a Govt Servant telling me when I started my career in a semi-Govt organization to be wary of the 'Chhoti Yey'. He was saying through experience.

And no I'm not in Police. That was another gentleman (I don't remember the nick) who is an ASP Police in Karachi. Nice guy.

That was the mistrust, and politics of MQM doesn't help at all - only worsens it.

Re: # 420
I am quite aware of the Polish jokes too as well as Ukranian, but this "matharwa" calling is no joke and it has been observed by myself when there were two speakers of the language busy in a gossip conspiring against an Urdu speaking Mohajir and referring to him as a "Mattharwa" justifying that due to his being Muttharwa he should lose his job.
How this goes?
This ain't no joke, mian.
As far as Ahl-e-tasheeh are concerned Lucknow had and still has a large concentration of them, and I am sure your restating this atrocity would not be as cool with your mainstream freind, you know who I am talking about.
While not being from Ahl-e-tasheeh, I still regard them appropriately.
Perhaps you are too easy going when it comes to such terminology, but I dont think it is kewl.

Question: Do you still work for the Police Department as mentioned in one of your older posts?

#418 Posted by MatloobZaman,

Lucknawies are known to be far more sensitive ever after generations having nothing to do with Lucknow.

Sir, a pure blooded Lucknavi relative of mine (rest in peace) used to call Shias 'Khatmal'.

One needn't turn these expressions of mutual ethnic rivalries into personal affronts. Are you aware the English joke about the Irish and Scots same as we joke about Sikhs?

Re: # 416
When it comes to Altaf Hussein I turn off my TV or switch the channel since I don't admire his speeches at all, so I don't know what and when he complained about but I ll take your word for that one.

However, if he complained about this activity I consider that it is a legitimate issue.

I know of not many Punjabies that if called by the names you mentioned would take it calmly.

Re: # 416
Zeemax sahib

I know of those atrocities that you mention that the Punjabis and other's are called, but I don't believe it is a decent practice for either to be involved in name calling.
I would prefer to identify myself as a Mohajir only to counteract, after all there is a limit to all this childish acts.

Generally in 62 years a human being starts to think about retiring and here we are after completing 61 years of living together yet we label each other as such.

I dont believe that you are the result of a full potency of Lucknawi injection, Lucknawies are known to be far more sensitive ever after generations having nothing to do with Lucknow.

Re: # 401 Posted by rf786

Happy belated Independence day to you too.

Cannot disagree with what you have said, yes there are good bad & ugly in all the people regardless of their ethnic or regional background but like you said due to few bad eggs one doesn't throw away the entire basket.

As a nation we need to start respecting each other and be honest with our selves and others, if a party such as Baloch nationalists have greivences then we need to understand and respect their viewpoint rather than start bombing the hell out of them. Same can be said for the other nationlist parties.

I personally believe that when we seek to penalize someone for their improper acts, by the same token we should also be appreciative of one's positive contributions, just like bringing up children, you reward them for being good and penalize them for being bad, but not to the extent of eliminating them.

While not associated with and due to my limited knowledge of MQM (without going into details of 80's when MQM sprouted) what I know of them is they became involved in violence by reacting to violence that was inflicted by a given segment generally upon Urdu speaking.

I read and heard a lot about (Late)Zia Ul Haq being involved in the evolution of MQM, however I also learned of MQM and Zia not seeing eye to eye, I personally was not there so I just go by the hear-say or reading while on the other hand I have learned that before being a part of any govt. MQM was involved in general clean-up campaigns throughout the city and specially in the areas of their concentration and various other acts of welfare, as such I believe we should also pat their back for their good deeds even though everyone discussing about them may not be aware of such acts on part of MQM.

In all sincerity I strongly believe that we the Pakistanis should give up all these atrocities and learn to appreciate each other and be regardful to each other only then we can experience a better and progressive society, divided we fall.