Reviving the Pakistani cinema

I know Ramesh Deo's family since we both come from Kolhapur. But hear from horse's mouth:
http://www.screenindia.com/old/archive/archive_fullstory.php?content_id= 15064

Pratibha Patil is also Maratha Rajput. Thanks to ShivChatrapati we have the least casticism among all states.

Half Chaddiwala was not a bad fellow. He gave a good laugh but at the expense of simpleton folks from villages. He was almost an orphan. If he is not bramhin then probably was Sonar who carry Janava/thread. Since he is not 96 Kuli Maratha, he would have got place here as Maratha Kunabi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunbi

Since I hate to talk about casts, this is the last post.

Satya..
Understand this is not to score any points here..
But I had a pakka deshastha brahmin one Mr.Dev who as a Dakshini deshastha brahmin, living right near my house.

And the chaddiwala is Dada Kondke who i believe is NOT a brahmin. I have not heard that surname in any brahmin clans i know about, and i do know quite a few.

Unless he is from Nagpur where many strange surnames figure amongst brahmins.

Yes Tendulkar unneccessarily played upon sex (rather the darker aspects of it). But to that extent, i liked Ha Mo Marathe. He would write about sex in a rather candid but healthy manner.

Anyways..i was waiting for a pakistani to come up with his take on urdoo dramas of the 1800s.
J

half chaddiwala was bramhin, btw. we should not be talking about casts. we need to bury it. better half is truly better and bramhin though i am not.

For me goaty is Tendulkar. Real well rooted folks who were loyal to the mati but you forgot to mention were people like GaDiMa and his elder brother. Ramesh Dev is Rajput from kolhapur but Seema is bramhin. It is not cast but anglophiling or BA (Hons) of goatis and jhola-walas spoiled. they had nothing to offer except cheap copies and sexualizing every thing. they were na ghar ke na ghat ke. they did not know our own culture or history but had read in their BA books about Churchil, Marx and Lenin. They dished out melancholy, foolish anger or humor of village folks,everything Indians or politicians.

There were many well meaning and activists folks such as Bhalba Kelkar. Right now Marathi is under threat unless we make it attractive for kids. In summer vacation my son attended Progressive Dramatic Association.

Hi ..
Pseudo intellectuals mentioned as "goaty" wallahs or "jholewallahs" abound every where on the subcontinent!
On either side of the Border.
Currently it is the embodiment of "lack of wisdom" is Arundhati Roy..she has taken it on herself that "kashmiris need freedom from India".
the stupid lady is merrily playing to the gallery, saying things pakistanis and some (only those in the valley) kashmiris like to hear, loosing sight of the overall goal of prosperity and stability of the subcontinent!!
Continually redrawing boundaries only brings catastrophe. Subcontinentals are fools enough to have forgotten the blood letting in 1947/8. Was that not enough?
People who like her to say such things forget that tomorrow the same Arundhati would be saying the same for waziristan and balochistan!!
Where would that end, may be she is aiming for another medal from the "gora" (ah so propah and decent) west!!
The other person to have immediately gone nuts immediately after the "gora award" is Paraful Bidwai.
He has immediately grown the mandatory "french cut" to resmble lenin as much as he can, and started a continual anti india tirade.
Really strange the antics of these "western awarded" goatees.
J

read casteist for cateist. I type lousy!
regards
J

Hi satya..
Now excuse me for being a nasty "cateist", But in truth, Mrathi cinema was "tasty" (tase-ful) as long as middle class brahmins dominated the setup.
Actors such as Ramesh Dev / Seema Dev, Raja Gosavi, etc made up the cast of movies ..the social like "Jagachya pathivar", the historical like "Ramshastri Prabhune" etc.
I even remember watching an old black-white movie that handled widow marriage very positively. (A very TABOO subject back then).
That "Half Chaddi wala" was Dada Kondke. I would be truly revolted watching the "low life" getting kicks watching his movies. Surat and Broda had his gujju following too!!
Somehow with the Kondke Takeover, the "brahmin" (read middle class maharashtrian, for whatever they were worth, marathi middle class had the brahmins as the most assertive group) values lost ground..like the "high tastes" of French aristocracy no doubt were lost for a time, in france.
I watched a Tamasha once, and was struck by the dignity of the dancing women how had "bai" appended to their name in place of the "wali" one would associate with something depraved. The lyrics tended to be "gavran" or coarse vountry type, but had the "rasa" ang to them.
Their dresses were marvellous, and their physic was "fit" to say the least!!
A pity that for survival (i believe they were a spinoff off the deva-dasis), they had to "do the needful"!!

regards
J

half chaddiwala was beaten in kolhapur with lot of kolhapuris for taking cheap shots at real bhumiputras and putris. Girani Kamagars also beat this guy.

any art or expression needs to be first empowering ie cosnsciousness raising

second it should not be based on lie

third, it should be tasty.

real fall happened because of Ghashiram Kotwal type doosronki undies washing in public by BA (Hons)s. If one scratched "goaty" of these folks you could immediately see that there were no deep roots. these folks thrived on you scratch my back and i scratch yours. To some extent these were castiests folks who took cheap shots at empowerment of village folks because of cooperative and democratic movements. Their dramas could not be seen with family.

Technology was the real egalitarian force. When the cost of production went down because of technology Shwaas like movies could take breath. Jai Ho Digitization!

Natya has roots in temple. In my village even upto late 70s dramas were performed on Holi. In interior Maratha land Marathi Tamasha was basically based on short drama skits. Tamashas which I attended could be seen with families and had lot of social and spiritual issues handled. I found them more progressive than "goaty" 's dramas.

Hi all,
A thrid reference on wikipedia with intriguing passing references to extant Parsi / Urdoo / Gujarati theatre of 1800s vintage!!
http://www.kamat.com/indica/music/natya_sangeet.htm .

Why, it says Cassical singing Ustaad's Like "Abdul Karim Khan and Manji Khan once delighted their audiences with choice Marathi pads".

What more can one say?

Can some one come up with Urdoo plays in vogue in the 1800's in the Pakistan area?

J

Hi all,
Sorry this is jay1 again, i simply had to post the source of what i said earlier about the indra sbha / parsi theatre being the source of the renaissance of marathi theatre.
I was right after all.
Wikipedia does give the history and the source too. Only it does not name "indra sabha" explicitly. But it is said that in mughal/Islamic ruler's courts, plays would go under the general name Indra sabha, as indra had a court full of courtesans and Gandharvas whose main occupation involved the performing arts.

the link is here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annasaheb_Kirloskar
one quote says it all ..
"'Annasaheb' Kirloskar was impressed that Parsi and Urdu drama companies were doing good business despite being in minority. The apathy of Maharashtrian middle classes and the social stigma attached to the theatre profession were the reasons for the sorry state of Marathi theatre. Kirloskar wrote the play Shakuntal, and it was performed in Pune in October 1880 to a packed house".

Pakistanis being very devout muslims, the Kirloskar route is best to revive their film industry.
Why not draw finance from arab sources, and hire the best actors and come up with historical episodes of the muslim khaliphates? Surely rich relio-secular traditions about the khalifs exist! THAT would rope in the audiences and hold them in thrall.
The quality should be good, and care should be taken to have a "social nmessage" weaved into the narrative. Themes like social equality etc, which are close to the heart of the original islam that won it believers with little recourse ro the sword.

THAT is the way forward..once it matures, the industry can diversify into mainstream social issues "closer at hand".

Ramchand Paksiatni is fine for a small class of intellectuals, but true grass root support, and good sustaining revenue will come only the way i suggested. It worked for indian cinema..(Raj hairishchandra te al)..it will work for Pakistan too.
J

Hi all,
Since marathi Cinema is mentioned in the interacts, i would like to pitch in with my two cents worth.

Marathi Cinema as pointed out earlier was really good until the late 70s.
Enter the "Half pant" guy with his cheap double meaning dialog, and it reached the true grass roots of pop culture, and also "reached rock bottonm" in quality, taste, you name it.
It truly began to reflect what the tastes were, of the "down trodden masses".
It was as if the BASTILLE of Marathi cinema had fallen.
And as it happened with the revolution, heads rolled. (many nice people left cinema, the "good audiences" left for good too. Only chai wallahs, rickshaw wallahs and other "wallahs" thronged and beat the hell out of each other laughing racuously at the gutter humour portrayed on screen.

If now marathi cinema is back on track, i think we have to thank the good production values of the "marathi serials" and plays, many of which were promptly taken up by the good gujarati theatre and serialdom.
examples:-
1- marathi play "To mi nhavech"...gujarati play/movie "Abinay samrat..played so well by Upendra Trivedi.
2 - Avantika - marathi serial follwed by gujarati version.

There were a number of other marthi turned gujarati plays, but i forget the names.

Acharya Atre / Tendulkar came up with many original story lines, adaptations (Ti Phula rani adapted from My fair lady, I think Othello was also adapted, and so was caucasian chalk circle).

This is all out of the stated scope of the thread, but may be it will throw up more factual interactions.

By the way one interesting gem for the PAKIS here...
Marathi plays started with a casual visit to the Parsi run Indra sabha ..a style of plays in urdoo, by one stalwart maharashtrian..i believe one mr Kirloskar. He was so impressed, he penned the first "pada's or lyrics of a marathi super hit .."sangeet shakuntal(?)" in a single night!!
I am quoting from memory from an article read long back, but it is a fact that Urdoo (Parsi) "Indra sabha" was the starting point for marathi literary renaissance!!

So take heart Pakistani cinemawallahs!
All is not lost, the darkes thour is before dawn!
J

nkg, guru:

Last Saturday, I saw a Malayalam film, Ore Kodal, based on a story by a Bengali author, Sunil Gangopadhyay. Quite well made with none of the masalas of Bollywood.

Regarding Marathi Cinema. There was a golden time for Marathi Cinema in 50-70 where great Marathi films were made. Then it was difficult for Marathi Cinema to compete with Bollywood.

One thing Marathi Cinema learnt is that it has to be different from Bollywood. They have good story line, most realistic and bold themes. After 'Shwaas' which was nomiated for Oscars there is no looking back for Marathi Cinema. Now Marathi films run to packed houses in multiplexes where there is a large non-Marathi audience.

Even Marathi soaps and serials have a better storyline and have issues that deal with common people. Hindi serials are more showoff.

I feel Pakistani cinema can learn a lot from the revival of Marathi Cinema. For readers I recommend the following Marathi films. Shwaas, Valu, Devrai, Tingya, Kadachit, Maati Maay, Dombivali Fast, Restaurant, Saavalee.

#12
Mumbai Urdooo movie industry never used to produce...

Re: # 11
Guru...
Mumbai Urdooo movies were never used to produce good quality movies, when they were not directed by regional directors...

These Salim/Jhadev etc... are just dirty cheap copy masters from Hollywood stuff. Now a days, thus, it do not work that way....

dost,

marathi cinema is thriving these days because hindi cinema is americanized. even gujarathi, hindi bhayyas and kannadigas are enjoying marathi cinema because of good stories, realistic and local ambiance.

just as shanti needs to be localized so also the media.

There are 3 elements as per as movie is
concerned...

1) Literary
2) Techonology
3) Entertainment


Without good literature, it is not possible to make good movies. Technology and techniques, you can learn from USA or French industry. Entertainment- it needs local elements (dance, music, painting...)

The greatest filmaker from Asia was Kurosawa and Satyajit Ray. Ray was backed by good Bengali literature ( himself was good story writer). He was aware of both Indian classical and western music. He got training from Renoir about film making.
You need that kind of talent available.

The cheapest and best option is dub/adopt Hollywood movies and occational french/british/spanish movies and may be some mumbai urdooooo movies, at least...