It's Politics Uber Alles In Kashmir ..... And India

HP sahib:

All I would add is that if ISI & Co. is not trying to get the leverage out of the situation, then they need to be fired up. It is their business, no different than CIA or RAW, to create unfair advantage for the establishment or their bosses. Don't you think that it is a game of chess, really?

Bajaur military operation: No food, no shelter for displaced people

By Manzoor Ali Shah

PESHAWAR: Thousands of displaced people from restive Bajaur Agency, where armed clashes between security forces and militants are going on, are reaching Peshawar in abject conditions and facing severe shelter, food and other problems, people reaching here told Daily Times on Saturday.

The displaced people reaching Peshawar are facing great difficulties in getting houses on rent and many families have returned to the agency after failing to find residences in the city as the property dealers and owners have doubled the rents keeping in view the situation of the people.

DM wrote: There could be many alternatives. I am a believer in the Confucian concept of a harmonious society, whereas the British Parliamentary system is based on confrontational politics

Amazing :). So China is a 'harmonious society' now.

So your constitution will be the 'holy book of Confucious' eh ? :) But why should your Confucious book be any more
valid than a holy book from the mid-east ?

aah - that "harmonius society" where you can go to wagah , hold a candle, sway and sing with kuldip nayar. Maybe
Arundhati Roy will be there and sign a book for you.

Dostmittar,

You outdo yourself in inanities time and time again.
Thankfully people like you are not in the IFS.

For the past 60 years, its the folks in the valley asking for more and more, now for the first time, its the other way and demands are being made on them to give back land to Hindus.
This is indeed a dramatic turn of events and reflective of situation.

Btw, look at the quality of this Pak strategist
on Independence day :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_naVAiFByxw

Watch all the related vides for more humor and note
what he speaks is same as the usual delusions of YLH,Tahmed etc. This kind of hate talk would never be on the TV of any decent society,but then we are talking of pakistan here.

This fellow is the elite of Pakistan society !
Remember how Musharraf said that Pakis eat cows wheras
Indian worship cows. This is the level of talk of the self styled CEO/President of a country.

There is not even basic honesty, introspection and acknowledgement of facts. Its always about anger and finding someone else to blame and abuse.

No other country in the world suffers from such massive
societal delusions.

The ISI Connection

I have finally found the ISI link in this issue. (btw, I do believe that ISI helped broker the India-US nuke deal too.)

The diplomats and the military establishment in Pakistan are not happy with US-India nuke deal but the US had forced them to keep a low profile and not oppose the deal publicly or lobby other nations against the deal. After the 18th Feb elections, it seemed that Pakistan establishment realized that until Musharraf is sidelined, they will remain bound by his commitment to the US on this issue. There was no urgency however as it seemed that the Left and Congress disagreements on the nuke deal had blocked the deal anyway.

The situation changed after the Mohni Mohni Sarkar was able to drop the left and positioned itself to finally sign the nuke deal. This development made Pakistani establishment go in overdrive. Their first challenge was to convince the ISI to drop its support of the nuke deal. As I mentioned above the ISI had brokered the US-India deal. The Pakistani establishment blackmailed ISI by issuing an order that the ISI would be placed under Rahman Malik, the well known NO security expert in Pakistan. That made the ISI come to its senses and the ISI developed the strategy to oppose the nuke deal and decided to use its surrogates in the Kashmir Valley.

Mehbooba Mufti was in Pakistan just before this whole issue came to surface. She met Zardari(another ISI man) and the top military brass in Pakistan( Zardari called her his sister as he was reluctant to disclose his relations with another woman after Benazir’s death just a few months ago). Mehbooba (cute name) paid a courtesy visit to the ISI headquarters, located under the ruins of Lal Masjid.

She was the CM and had originally approved the grant of the land. When the issue came up in the Kashmir cabinet meeting after the CM position was passed on to Ghulam Nabi Azad. She and her party changed their position by following the ISI strategy. Omar abdullah, another ISI man in Kashmir and her party made it a public issue and some other ISI sponsored elements in the Kashmir Valley joined her party.

The Ghulam Azad ministry was brought down but not before he was forced to cancel the grant of Land. He presumably acted on his party, Congress’s high command advice from Delhi (ISI controls the Congress president-She is non Hindu).

While the ISI sponsored a protest movement in the Valley, it also approached the BJP high command (BJP President is a former Pakistani, a Sindhi) to stir up the Hindu majority Jammu area. Now the Kashmir valley is on fire and all Indians are fighting over their new strategy in Kashmir including letting it go to Pakistan. (The ISI would never allow this to happen because if it does happen, the ISI will have to find another state in India, it can use to stir up political turmoils in India at will.)

On the Pakistan side, the ISI forced its man Zardari to begin impeachment proceedings against Musharraf to drop him completely and open the way for Pakistan to launch its campaign in the international media against the US-India nuke deal!

The turmoil in Kashmir and spreading of Hindu-Muslim violence in other parts of India would allow the Pakistan foreign ministry to start lobbying other government and some circle in the US to block the nuke deal by portraying India as an unstable state which is not ready to handle the delicate issue of importing nuke plants. This campaign would further show that India will use the nuke technology to launch attacks against its neighbors. The ISI’s next step is to force new national elections in India and maneuver results that bring in a hung parliament thus making it difficult to form a government in the center. An increase in communal violence is expected before the elections too.

Would the ISI strategy work? We don’t know yet! but all the signs show that so far the Indians are following the ISI script to the letter and the ISI would be able to scuttle the nuke deal between U.S. and India.

The irony is that after the great success in brokering the deal, the ISI now would help break it too. This would be another feather in the ISI’s crown and they will show this off around the Lal Masjid and in the FATA areas to tease the US army and the CIA there.

Dost sahib:

I know why you are saying article 370 has very little to do with Center-State relationship or devolution of power. In the part article 370 created separation. I am talking about integration, where Indian Kashmir is equal partner in the Union. South Asian economic union needs to be between India with Indian Kashmir, Pakistan with Pakistani Kashmir and other members of SAARC. Yes, I agree this is the future, but present is certainly not what ISI & Co. plans.

anil:

Article 370 has very little to do with the centre-state relations in general. Such an article won't stand even in the European union; it's a unique formula to maintain the demographic balance in the State.

If in future, there is a Europe like union in south asia, then, maybe, article 370 may become subject to change as part of a larger south asian entity.

anil:

Article 370 has very little to do with the centre-state relations in general. Such an article won't stand even in the European union; it's a unique formula to maintain the demographic balance in the State.

If in future, there is a Europe like union in south asia, then, maybe, article 370 may become subject to change as part of a larger south asian entity.

Re: # 127

Kaal:

"...With article 370 in place, there can be no integration of any consequence.

I suspect Kashmiri Muslims don't WANT integration with Hindus. But I may be wrong...."

First on article 370. I have mentioned it was a costly mistake, and not easy to remove. Unless it is reviewed in the wider Center-State devolution of power framework.

Regions develop economic integrations, EU has proven it don't you think?

Re: # 133

Sadna:

"...According to me, yes, Advani could have highlighted the Amarnath religious angle..."

I agree with you. Religious fault line is Pakistani view. Advani is certainly giving a new twist, because that will win him votes in the South also, which too has been affected by terrorism.

BJP's separatist and nationalist angle is not surprising, its RSS elements certainly will bring nationalism and fascism in the election to play.

Problem is that alternative and clear Indian Kashmir policies are not defined in India.

Dost sahib:

Indian Kashmir not being the poorest state should be a good enough reason for economic planners, don't you think?

Writing off a part of India, because founding fathers made mistakes is abdication of responsibilities. Please remember, the British general of Pakistani army refused to take Jinnah's order to march beyond the ceasefire line, and India did not send its forces till Pakistan got to ceasefire line. A lot more than what meets the eye got decided then.

It may not look like an economic problem, and rightly so. Could it be because you are refusing to see beyond obivious solutions?

Dost sahib:

"...and do you think that it is a "resolved issue"? ..."

You have asked a very different question, I hope you realize that. My emphasis is about ISI & Co trying to create a leverage, not "if it is resolved". If it was solved then why would I talk about India realizing mistakes, economic integration and social developments.

Yes, I do not believe in ISI & Co's solution of tearing Indian Kashmir out, which you seem to concede.

anil#123:

"No one should expect otherwise from ISI & Co to create leverage for themselves, after all they believe that Kashmir is unresolved issue."

...and do you think that it is a "resolved issue"? Then what are we talking about and why?

"HP and Ijaz sahibs know this reality too. What concerns me more is when Dost Sahib’s pass the judgment that Indian Kashmir should be separated. Why don’t Dos sahib’s think of great economic integration, even Pakistan’s Zardaris, Nawaz Sharifs and Musharrafs are talking."

I do not for a moment think that economics has anything to do with the Kashmir issue, my degree in Economics notwithstanding. No Kashmiri in his right mind would want to be a part of the country like Pakistan whose very passort makes you a candidate for suspicion almost anywhere in the world, which has fewer economic opportunities than India, where even religious freedoms are less than in India (no Indian Muslim has died when praying in a mosque, unlike what routinely happens in Pakistan), where provinces have much fewer rights than Indian States, where Kashmiriyat has as much chance as it has in the Pakistani Kashmir (none!) and where dictators rule more often than elected leaders. It has all to do with the attraction for the Ummah for Muslims. Indians can keep their collective head buried in the sand and not see the reality but they will do so only at their peril.

"Indian policy needs to recognize it, and start economic integration of Indian Kashmir with the rest of India, so that they also feel the benefits of Today’s India, and dream of being part of Indian dream."

If you had made this statement with respect to the separatists in the North Eastern states, I would have agreed with you. But Kashmir is now very well integrated with India, or at least as much integrated as it wants to, a greater integration would require Kashmiris to let Indian businesses buy assets in Kashmir for doing business there, which is currently not permitted under Article 370.

Kashmir is not the poorest state in India and it is the lowest or one of the lowest in terms of people below poverty line.

if BDs can have ration cards in West Bengal then i am sure himachalis can have second one in jammu.

when jammu & ladakh pop is more than 2/3rd of total, with right jerry-mandering you can get state 2/3 rd votes in assembly for amending the j&k constitution.

d_m
According to me, yes, Advani could have highlighted the Amarnath religious angle and talked of Hindu religious rights without being disqualified. I see it as somewhat significant that he didn't, but I don't know how long the restraint will last.

DM Ji

So in India, one cannot say that Kashmir is an out and out Hindu-Muslim issue?!!

This is ridiculous, but is it true?