It's Politics Uber Alles In Kashmir ..... And India

#129 Posted by dost_mittar on August 16, 2008 12:00:27 pm


Someone has pointed out that it also needs a resolution by the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly.


That would be ijaz "indian-israel radars in Kyrgyzstan are being used to jam all frequencies in pakiland" gul...

take that with a pinch of salt...

sadna#122:

Do you expect Advani to openly say that it is a Hindu-Muslim issue and get his party disqualified by the Election Commission? Even Modi was careful to always use the words "terrorists" and not Muslims. They will use the coded language and let their underlings spread the "true" message at the ground level.

Actions speak louder than words; he did not attend the all-party meeting called by the Prime Minister.

arjun#120:

Do you or anyone else know to which of the three categories of amendments does Article 370 fall?

Someone has pointed out that it also needs a resolution by the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly.

stuka#121:

I thought that I had written even more useless ones, but they may have escaped your notice. :)

"Look, even if Kashmir Valley is to be given to Pakistan, it should be done at our choosing"

Who gives up anything without any pressure? It is unimportant whether a solution is found under pressure or without it, as long as it resolves the problem permanently.

I used to be somewhat reluctant in suggesting giving away Kashmir because of its potential catastrophic effects on Indian Muslims; however, it seems that most of them don't seem to be bothered by it, so they probably don't expect too much negative fallout for themselves.

anil ji, those who see integration as the way forward must push for the removal of article 370 with everything they have.

With article 370 in place, there can be no integration of any consequence.

I suspect Kashmiri Muslims don't WANT integration with Hindus. But I may be wrong.

anil
Yup. Indians need to be more stout-hearted and stoic than they appear on chowk.com.

BJ2:

Article 370, no doubt was a costly mistake. It cannot be undone that easily, however, it probably can be reconsidered within the greater framework of Center-State devolution of power. This would allow India to come up with a single consitutional framework. There is another thorny issue of separate personal laws, that mistake too needs to be corrected in a wider framework. The U.S. constitution has been re-interpreted to outlaw slavery, which was earlier constitutional. Democracies are good in reviewing its previous acts.

Article 370 is a part of the Indian Constitution. The Indian Constitution is a highly malleable document - as proven in no uncertain terms during 1975-77. It gets modified quite often to suit politicians' whims. Its provisions regarding J&K consent requirements on dropping 370 can be also dropped if the Indian leaders have the political will to do so.

However, both the Congressis and the BJP have a vested interest in keeping the pot of hate boiling while paying lip service to the farce that in India is called "secularism"! Article 370 is the surest guarantor of that hate.

Dost Sahib:

Indian government has been quite involved in all the mistakes and manipulations you mention in your essay. Indian parliament needs to apologize to the Sikhs and Indian Kashmiris to start.

These mistakes are not fatal to India. Given the current situation, it is not even in Pakistan’s interest to pick a fight with India.

Pakistani mindset needs to accept, and let Indian Kashmiris accept that India is going to play a dominant role in South Asia in reorganizing the economic and social structure.

There is very little Pakistanis can do other than what their ISI & Co. is doing. Their acts bring reactionary forces out in India. Indian fabric will tolerate ISI & Co. and Indian reactionary. They forget that right now it is Pakistani fabric that is more strained. No one should expect otherwise from ISI & Co to create leverage for themselves, after all they believe that Kashmir is unresolved issue. HP and Ijaz sahibs know this reality too. What concerns me more is when Dost Sahib’s pass the judgment that Indian Kashmir should be separated. Why don’t Dos sahib’s think of great economic integration, even Pakistan’s Zardaris, Nawaz Sharifs and Musharrafs are talking.

There is no mood in the world to create another nation on religious lines, and that too an Islamic nation. Sloganeering aside, Indian Kashmiri leaders understand this too; otherwise Mehbooba would not have been a Chief Minister, Yasin Malik would not break his fast unto death. You and I had expected BJP to use Amarnath issue, and they are doing it, and they may even come to power by doing so. May be Mehbooba and others like to deal with BJP more than Congress.

Ras sahib proposes something he calls "self-rule" not separate country as the solution. Nothing in India can be called "self-rule" any longer, but this is a sign of openness from the Pakistani side. Also in India, time is coming to review center-state relationship; greater devolution of power for all states, including Indian Kashmir is yes. Pakistan still has longer way to go than India to accept ground realities in Indian Kashmir, but they seem to be making progress.


Indian policy needs to recognize it, and start economic integration of Indian Kashmir with the rest of India, so that they also feel the benefits of Today’s India, and dream of being part of Indian dream. It certainly looks like that there is something lacking among Indians.

d_m
Advani said it was not a Hindu vs Muslim issue, not a Jammu vs Kashmir issue, it is a separatists vs nationalists issue. Which is benign on the face of it but we have to see whether the message remains benign throughout the rigours of a general election campaign.

Dost Mittar: This is one of the most useless articles you have written. Look, even if Kashmir Valley is to be given to Pakistan, it should be done at our choosing. Not under blackmail. It should be done after the Kashmiris have been decimated to the extent that their coming generations remember Indian Army just as we Hindus remember Nadir Shah and Abdali. The first stage is also to inflict pain on sympathizers of Kashmiri Muslims (even if they are Hindu) as they should suffer in the same way that the Kashmiri Hindus have suffered.

#113 Posted by ijaz_gul on August 16, 2008 9:46:43 am


In the legal Battle, 370 is a manifestation of India's double policy and hence a loophole. Without the consent of Kshmiris it cannot ge annulled.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_India#Amendm ents

Article 368 of the Constitution provides that amendments to the Constitution can take place in three ways. These are;

* By simple majority of the Parliament: Amendments in this category can be made by a simple majority of members present and voting, before sending them for the President's assent.
* By special majority of the Parliament: Amendments can be made in this category by a two-thirds majority of the total number of members present and voting, which should not be less than half of the total membership of the house.
* By special majority of the Parliament and ratification by at least half of the state legislatures by special majority. After this, it is sent to the President for his assent.

#95 Posted by tahmed32, #90

I missed this:

When thug musharraf proudly claims he violated the constitution on nov 3, i believe him. When thug ben laden proudly claims he was behind 9/11, i believe him ...

When thug musharraf proudly claimed he violated the constitution on nov 3, you believed him without reading the Constitution. I didn't need to hear musharraf for evidence that he violated the Constitution. Neither did most Pakistanis.

And you say you believe "thug ben laden" proudly claiming he was behind 9/11, and you believe him blindly on the basis of a blurred 'Fat Bin Ladin Video' ... no other evidence.

If you do, please present it. And that's a challenge not only to you but the entire Chowk.

DM ji, you probably meant 'blinfolded law'. Justice is a controversial concept.

"there is no consensus in its favour even in the Indian polity."

And it would be wrong to 'blame' Dr Manmohan Singh for not being 'strong enough' to address the problem that arises. The problem (for those who think there is a problem) is far deeper and broader. It is, first and foremost, within us.

Chacha Zee,

Your #84 is truly fantastic.

and..... you are 52 years old.

(I know a 26 year old aadhaa-paagal).

eklavya#112:

I believe in the laws being enforced by a blindfolded justice. If India considers Kashmiris to be Indian, then they must be entitled to the rights of every Indian citizen.

I do think that Article 370 was a monumental blunder, among many such blunders, by our leadership of the time. But it is too late to do anything about it. Never mind the separatists in Kashmir, there is no consensus in its favour even in the Indian polity.