It's Politics Uber Alles In Kashmir ..... And India

jang:

The opportunity I see is for the BJP to repeat its performance of 1989 and exploit this situation to the hilt. And I have no problem with the Jammu people venting their anger and doing a blockade as everyone else does in India. But, then, it was the duty of the Central Govt. to remove that blockade (which they have belatedly done) and to subsidize airlift of the Valley produce in the meantime.

ijaz bhai, article 370 is deeply symptomatic of the great flaw in Indic thinking, and hence loophole is a good way to describe it.

Thanks for the information about Baloch Sardar Khosa. May be he was something like Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan (even though the Gaffar Khan was most likely religiously conservative, like Gandhi).

For these people, before they accepted Islam politically, Pakistan could have held little interest.

In the legal Battle, 370 is a manifestation of India's double policy and hence a loophole. Without the consent of Kshmiris it cannot ge annulled.
EKHLAVA,
Yes your comment on Balochistan is valid. The then Baloch Sardar Khosa who was a communist athiest went ruuning to Maulana Azad and told him in explicit terms that he wanted to be part of the Indiam Dominion. Maulana Azad convinced him that his future was with Pakistan. It was pursuant to this that the Great Baloch jirga was held for accession with Pakistan. Later Khosa decanted and accepted Islam from Maulana Sindhi.
But all this is another story.

Zee,

There is no real reason for ordinary Balochis, or Sindhis or Punjabis to want independence from Pakistan! With Kashmiri Muslims we have a different story.

Yes, DM ji tells us that even in India that same situation applies between Hindus in Himachal Pradesh (and some other areas) and the rest of India. DM ji probably knows but ignores that those are entirely different situations than between Kashmiri Muslims and rest of Indians/Hindus. There are absolutely no significant problems between Himanchali Hindus and Hindus from the rest of India.

DM ji mixes up because he remains our DM ji! :)

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guru bhai, I must protest, again. We are lucky to have a great man like Dr Manmohan Singh as our PM! This problem is not HIS problem, nor can we expect him to solve it. It is a problem of you, and me, and DM ji. We and we alone, as ordinary people, with our own unique preferences, are to blame (if blame is to be apportioned. May be we can blame the class of 'politicians' but politicians arise from amongst us.).

#110 Posted by VRV,

I can only laugh at this.

Zee,

That's BS (self-determination 3-way option of azadi, merger with India or Pakistan). Azadi is never an option as per the dispute btw India and Pakistan.

The basis for dispute in this Indian Princely state is that the King acceded to India when he faced aggression from irregulars from Pakistan dominion.

As per India Independene Act this Pricnely state got to go to Pakistan based on demography but Pakistani irregulars problem khada kardiya tha. Hence India came into picture. Else Kashmir wud have been urs. U guys cudnt wait till it happened.

Much water flowed in Indus since this happened.

We cant follow the UN route for the solution coz the state in no longer what it was in 1948. India is in a position to say no to the 'solutions' proferred by Pakistan now. It cud get much worse in future when India gains more strength in terms of economic clout and nuclear might.

So there.

this is the right time to scrap 370 and settle 370K armed forces families around all the temples and shrines. unkil is actually winking to india. but manmohan buddha hogaya hain. Kashmiri Shantists ingrates only deserve Dostum-In-Rectum treatment. A Sanatani Putin will arise soon to do this job of integrating India.

#106 Posted by Eklavya,

I think there's a huge misunderstanding over this thing about Kashmir becoming part of Pakistan. Pakistan has always stood for the right of self-determination, and that is it's stand still. Kashmiris can decide to remain with India, go independant, or merge with Pakistan.

Some people have equated Kashmir with Baluchistan. I believe if Baluchistan really wanted to go their own way anywhere near the way Kashmir does, Pakistan would not suppress it. But it isn't like that in Baluchistan. It's the worst feudal society with a small separatist group controlled by a few Sardars with gas reserves. Kashmir isn't. There's no comparison.

There's also been talk of buying property by Indians in Kashmir and vice versa. Pakistanis can't buy property in the Northern Areas because these are disputed territories (I wanted to in Hunza), but the Northern Area people CAN buy property anywhere in Pakistan. That's the difference.

"I think that the current problems are purely home grown"

DM sahib where you see problems, i see opportunity to move polity. There is nothing wrong with politics..let everyone play it to their hearts content. Commies do blockades, gujjars do blocakades, kashmiris do valley bandh for various important issues like danish cartoons, its the way we do things to highlight what is important to us. This is the style of lively politics of India. People are not stupid, they do these things because they are important to them, and yes they also use ISI in their games whenever useful.

I know you are from a quasi-scietific background (economics), so consider the problem of finding optimal solution. Sometimes you tend to settle in a local optimum, which is a false solution. So the right thing to do is disturb the system so that the search for the more optimum solution again begins. Its fantastic that the Jammu and Kashmir folks are attempting to resolve their internal issues, we should all welcome this opportunity. The only thing we should do is that the disturbance is enough to move the solution over the brink of the local optimum, else it will again settle in the same old solution, and the effort is therefore not wasted.

We should definately seek help of ISI in this matter, they are not enemies, they are also interested in a solution.

guru, yaar that abuse is unhelpful. We should try to fix problems peacefully.

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zee, Ijaz

Yes, zee! And I agree. The BEST option for Muslims right now is to NOT ask for the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan, and to 'respect' the LOC. That allows for greatest motivational engine for Muslims and capability against Hindus, and in general defense from all non-Muslims.

And this 'separation' is not a very new idea in Pakistan. HP, for instance, has always followed this appraoch. From Pakistan's pov it will be suicidal, especially right now, to allow outsiders to connect the two (unless Pakistan wants abandon all its past!). (Zee - remember - all such situations must be seen, by large majorities of outsiders, to be SEPARATE to keep others off balance.)

Ijaz:

Since you are the second person (after HP) to object to my reference to ISI, I went again to read if my statement could be misinterpreted; so this is what I said,

"The Pakistani army was busy fighting insurgents in its tribal areas along the Afghanistan border; the jihadis fighting the insurgency had lost crucial support and training camps in the Pakistan Administered Kashmir, and the ISI was busy playing internal power games in Islamabad."

It is clear that I am suggesting that the ISI has its priorities elsewhere and is not responsible for the troubles in Kashmir now. In any case, let me reiterate, I think that the current problems are purely home grown.

Yaar guru,

Why do you think anyone will c/p your roachmail and watch those URL's you keep c/p'ing and want them to watch?

That's quite typical of roaches when they're flipped on their backs and they flap their legs around but can't get straightened up to walk away - and they die flapping their legs.

Eklava,
Though it remains India's wish to merge the two, Pakistan never would.
Talibanisation is in fact Arabisation in the extreme Wahabi-Salafi mould. It crept into Pakistan due to the Mock Jehad of Afganistan and Pakistanis working in SA. CIA Dollars worked wonders in the interim to set up these jehadi factories.

Though Pakistan tried to replicate its experience of Afghanistan in Kashmir, the two were never merged.

Thats why the LOC has to remain quite despite provocations.
Zakrias reasoning just skims the surface.

#97 Posted by Eklavya,

Thanks. This writer is an extremely rational thinker. I guess Daily Times only publishes her to balance it's neo-con policy.

But have you thought about ijaz_gul's remark?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJG1z0jpwu4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i YKttCG44v4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BHWgAILP7I


http://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=Njs2xkXrB4Y

Kashmiri Omar Ga..du first lived in Sharad Pawar's flat when he started his college but then his ga.du dad bought one for him on Netaji Subhash Chandra Road (aka Marine drive). Lot of Kashmiris are in drug biz and are buying land in places such as Goa. Ingrate Kashmiris who are separatist should separate their undies which are also subsidized by GOI and start walking to Shantibad in Baki land before winter sets in. they will get royal treatment similar to one they recd in 48. Kashmiris need to be freed from India and not Kashmir. These guys do not even pay income tax. If you scratch their ancestary you would realize that the most ga..dus and baniyatic people converted to Shanti for their own protection and material well being.

Is our friend Pandit Mandar Multankar this guy http://www.youtube.com/v/IeNz9ZhQBW4