Musharraf and Me

Re: # 48 nkg, both imperatives are unlikely to happen. Idealism does not work. So sad.

Re: # 45 majumdar; to be 110% honest, I do not read a lot on chowk, so I don't know if there is a propaganda existing on chowk. I recall the material I know in my youth years and the common sense which can glean the truth even without much material. I have lost all those reference books, so I can only recall that historically it can be proved that it were these feudal who wanted Pakistan, because Congress had land reforms in his program. Events after events prove how these people supported it and how ordinary people were duped by their emotions. I really do not want to discuss all this. It is very painful what happened in 1947 (and even more painful that so few people realize its long erm consequences in whole of this region) and no one ever ever can convince me otherwise. I hear even today the screams of people fleeing their homelands and .... (no words can describe all that through which people to have go through - for what??????????????) - no I don't want to talk about it.

Re: # 42
quin...
Feudalism to democracy is not easy transition....It can be achieved in peaceful manner in two ways....
1) Upper class have to create new source of wealth without exploitation
2) Lower class have to unite and create a political power base for them.

In West Bengal, CPI(M) started as communist party, but strengthened democracy to large extent...

Re: # 45
majumder....

ha ha ha....nice attempt to make a dog believe that, it is human.....

Ouch! That must have hurt Majumdar bhai? Not for the first time, even Pakistanis questioning the partition?

Quin sahib,

We divided India so that feudal of Punjab, Sindh, Blochistan and NWFP can flourish.

Looks like you have fallen prey to the nefarious propaganda of Hindoo hatemongers on chowk. Pakistan was created in the name of minority rights and provincial autonomy.

Regards

Re: # 7
Arjun...

Good news and Bad News for you...
Good one...
Bomb kills more than 25 people in Pakistan....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7569786.stm

Bad one...
10 French soldiers lost life while fighting with Islamists...
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSSP16416020080819?feedTy pe=RSS&feedName=topNews


For Pakis it be reverse....

Re: # 32
Tahmed...
If Nawaz had committed any mistake and violated constitution, he whould have recevied proper response in the next election. Who is army chief to take action against an elected PM? Does he have any authority to take such action? What accountability he has towards common people? Do people of Pakistan have the authority to sack an Army chief, whenever you think it suits?

Tenure of a Govt. is at most 5 years. As part of human history, it is very small time and can not cause permanent damage to a nation.
If you have formulated a process stick to it or try to refine it gradualy. If you abundon it for misdeed of an executioner, then you will never able to create stabel process.....
Let Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto commit crime, people will create new leadership, if they deserve a better one....

I normally do not find enough inspiration to participate in any political discussion. It is all so hopeless. But at this point, I feel urge to share one of my strongest convictions. (so strong that I am posting it on every interact on this topic - directly related or not)
Gosh, how to say it. I will support only that government / party that is sincerely and totally committed to abolish feudalism in Pakistan. That is our key problem. People get excited about this or that leader. People talk about merits and demerits of despicable military rule or corrupt political parties rule. People get ensnare in a bit of hero worship. People get worked up with their emotions and erupt like lavas. But what we forget is the fact that no party, no military rule has ever made the fundamental change in our society; the only fundamental change which will take our country forward is the structural change to break the social and economic grip of bastard feudal lords. It may sound old fashioned classical socialist line, but the fundamentals never change. There is a feudal-military, feudal-political alliances which will never allow this to happen. That is why right from the start, when Jinnah and Liaquat have been murdered, no government have ever taken a single serious step towards liberating the poor masses from their horrible shackles. Even Bhutto, the socialist, even the Musharaf the enlightened one, failed miserably in this respect. The former betrayed the latter ignored. In the final analysis, they (and all others for that matter) were in alliance with those feudal bastards, (knowingly or unknowingly - the games are played in those circles in different ways.) So to hell with all the political parties; to hell with military rule- where country’s daughters and sisters and mothers, if they speak their mind, are raped in the streets and buried alive in the fields. What more despicable portrayal of a country can be than shown in one of Tazeen's iLog. And then people still do not see how it is these feudal bastards who are enemies and - emotions aside - are fundamental problem of Pakistan. With their firm grip on the politics and social fabric they stilt any real growth in culture, economics and arts. It is from that milieu of feudalism from which also all the religious fanaticism flourishes too.
We divided India so that feudal of Punjab, Sindh, Blochistan and NWFP can flourish. We committed horrible crimes in then East Pakistan so that Majeeb could not come to power and break the power of feudalism. We build nukes so feudal can be safe. Hell all. This is real blindness. We don't see the real enemies and are swayed by one or other hero worship. Messiahs will keep coming and leading us nowhere until people are blind and do not see their enemies and their own power. How they will see it. I don't know. If history is any evidence, then it will be through hell of bloodbath.

see the delusional, liar, racist and bigot.

Have a good day and keep it real,

TNI masadi

#36 Majumdar sahib, what NS did was done in a structure in which the judiciary had always promoted the status quo, it was a subordinate branch whose subordination was moreso to the military and the establishment than the people's government. It was a "mistake" but certainly not greater than the "mistake" by the judiciary of legitimizing every military rule in this country and conspiring with the military to undo democractic rule. It is high time that the people (who certainly aren't the ghoondas that tahmed talks about) storm every branch of the state and take what is rightfully theirs

Have a good day, and keep it real,

TNI Masadi

tahmed writes "no president of the US ever sent ghoondas to storm the Supreme Court as Nawaz Sharif had done back in the 1990's"

The US has indeed sent "ghoondas" to storm entire countries to change their regimes, and the executive misusing his office to manipulate the appointment of judges to dilute the independance of the judiciary is commonplace in the US as well. What tahmed sahib is doing is opening a path for the military to interfere in state affairs which by itself is a circumvention of the constituion of both the US and Pakistan that assigns a specific role to this military, which does not include capturing the state. I understand that the military upbringing of tahmed in the Pakistan Army tradition is preventing him from seeing these things. On the other hand the US military as the dominant institution together with the economic and the state operates in ways that are little different to how the Pakistan military operates except that you don't see an explicit officer in uniform commandeering the state. The state (in the US) decides based on decisions that see things in the military pov, their budgets and tax spending is skewed in that direction, and compared to all other affairs of the state, the military and military men of affairs, and their reliationship with the militarized economy is at the top of their list. The US for all intents and purposes is a military garrison state to a similar or greater degree than the military republic of Pakistan, the only difference is that it comes with more sophisticated window dressing. The Zardaris of this system have greater experience and a system that masks those that pull their strings much more effectively. The "deal making" that occurs behind the scenes never makes it to the public arena unlike the Zardari case...

Tahmed sahib,

I agree that what NS did to SC in 1998 wasn't exactly very nice. But the right thing to do would have been to start a political agitation and judicial proceedings against NS. Something like the Lawyers Movement. Agreed that given the poor state of crucial institutions- media, EC, Courts- in Pak (at least in 1999) there was no guarantee that this kind of effort would succeed. But still it was better than a coup. Inviting or supporting the army was never a great idea.

And it would have been easy to understand had Mushy intervened when NS stormed the Court (or was it JK who was COAS then?) but Mushy overthrew NS because he himself was sacked, not becuase the Constt of Pak was being violated.

Mushy overthrowing NS becuase of his concern for Constt of Pak is about as plausible as USA invading Iraq because of overthrowing a tyrant or WMD.

Regards

#28 majumdar: No one (other than a fool) thinks he knows the future. i do hope though musharraf is the last military officer in Pakistan who abused the trust of the nation by turning the nation's army against itself.