School Days

Aaah, brings back memories. I, too, was at St. Pats for a few years, though before FK Khan but, I hope!, after Tahmed Sahib!

Bishop, then Father, Lobo was the Principal and Tony "beeRi babu" D'Souza was incharge of the Cambridge section. Played a bit of basketball and hockey, not much since I was bad at most team games!

Hey Fouz, Thanks for taking the time to respond.
89, eh? And you hung out a lot at the basketball court? Something you mention about break-dance music there suggest you might have been at the sleepover (at the very court) organized by the then bb coach, JN. That was '88 or '89.
I think the best bb player to have come out from St. Pat's a certain Mike Turner, was in your batch. If so, and if you'd like to hook up with him, I'd be happy to liaise.

For what it's worth, a second reading of your piece, and of your interact, has prompted me to try to step back a little and consider that I was perhaps a bit harsh on the ol' alma mater. Incidentally, I don't speak without a certain degree of expertise on conditions at St Pats, having dedicated 18 years trying to improve things. I should add that for most of that time, I was supported by the very able, enlightened principal. Alas things have gone steeply downhill since his retirement in 99.

Yes I was there from 1979 to 1989 with the first five years in the afternoon section. Regarding the same experiences elsewhere, well...I am not so sure about it. May be the general content might have been somewhat similar (as they are wont to be in any schooling experience)but what I am most concerned about is the atmosphere (or what it seems to me now - we do see the past with a sort of smiling melancholy na? thinking like a perfect old boy that all khushbaashi and choanchaali went away with our generation!). So the old school grandeur even at that time did, and still does, fascinate me. I am ofcourse limited by my own experience and personal disposition as regards my schooling days so the matter of giving more or less credit is something very subjective. And thanks for correcting me :) Joseph's it is.

.... it is never about individuals, and I apologise if you thought it was a personal dig at any one; it is what people as a "group" come from and stand for ... hope it clarifies ... one doesn't need a PhD to work out the staringly obvious

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 37; ijaz

one of my favourite comedians once said "I don't MAKE UP stereotypes, I just SEE them"

same applies here ... I don't make up anything, or ridicule anyone personally .... simply state facts as I see them

Khuda hafiz sir

Re: # 36
akcheema,
"have no political/widespread say in what happens in the society at large"

Then have no say in rediculing others when you do not even know them. They may be striving just as hard.

Re: # 32; ijaz

I have no political/widespread say in what happens in the society at large

at a personal/individual level, I already try to do what I can

tAhmed, are you sure BB went to Jennings?? I'm pretty sure she did her O's from that other -- perhaps the doyen -- wanna-be-Western-but-really-just-colonial-ass-wipe institution, CJM.

tAhmed, Another honorable (and much honored, by these idiotic ass-licking, power-worshipping idiots who run St. Pat's and similar "missionary" schools here, was Jam Sadiq Ali, for whom the red carpet was rolled out back in the nineties even as he went about doing his badmaashi as Provincial chief.

You are so right about the lack of anything resembling good teachers at St Pat's. Okay, correction .. SHORTAGE of them-- they were certainly a few standout individuals, exemplifying the spirit of scholarship and/or love of teaching that the writer greatly exaggerates in the article. But yes, by and large there was, and continues to be a horrible lack of professionalism and anything approaching students' rights (starting with the right to be seen as a person!) in many of these schools with hallowed traditions and legendary reputation.

In any half-modern, more humane society, half the staff (and three quarters of the admin) would be booked for child abuse and probably sentenced to long terms of psychotherapy.

Wow, FK Khan, what a great set of reminisces and hindsight analyses! Your writing style is enviable - almost Dickensian at times. I'd trade every one of my three or four cherishable memories from my ten sordid years at that
school just for your ability to recall minutiae and all that that recollection evokes. Great job there!

From some of the events you mention, I figure you were roughly a contemporary -- passed out in the mid-80's. Which year exactly, if you don't mind my asking?

I'm tempted to say that you give St Pat's a whole lot more credit than it is due, but then, that would be arrogant on my part, so I won't. I would, however, like to know if you've considered that most of the growing up experiences you so wonderfully describe, and credit to the culture of your alma mater, might have taken place in just about any school your had the fortune of misfortune to attend-- minus the occassional religious dilemma you were faced with by virtue of St Pat's being parochial. Well...?

Well, will get back with some thoughts on your menacingly though-and-memory provoking piece later...

Here's a parting name to ..er.. chew on: Joseph's (not Michael's) :-0

rgds,
PM

akcheema,
Please go and put the order right. I'll join you .

Cheema sahib,

Quite the reverse. You are the antithesis of both the Commie and the Rightwinger.

Regards

Re: # 28; majumdar

was that a polite way to call me a "commie" or a "right-winger"? .... for the record, I am neither

Regards

Re: # 27; ijaz_gul sahib,

it is quite obvious if you read my post in the context provided by ahmedmadani sahib. One of the startling differences one comes across in the Islamic Republic is its education system; it is two-tiered. There is one education system, a legacy of the colonials, which still exists in the form of the so-called English-medium system of schooling. On the other hand, for the "ordinary" mere mortals is the so-called Urdu-medium of education.

I for one consider English to be a very important international language, and advocate the right of every Pakistani child to have access to it .... through a fair system of education. However, it has been governmental policy, consistently, to deny the "ordinary" child (the unwashed masses! to borrow from hamidm) that same previlege. As a result, there has always existed this divide ... the "haves" and the "have-nots" based upon their "closeness" to the "original model of perfection" as a "gentleman" through the so-called "public-school" system.

One could argue that the same divide exists in the rest of the world, England itself perhaps,.... but the "division" there is not founded in language .... especially that of the recent colonial masters!

Also, unfortunately, it is not always "merit" that determines who goes to which school and I find that a great injustice too.

As I stated somewhere some time ago, I was born in England and didn't have any exposure to the schooling systems in Pakistan until I was in my mid teens. I was aghast, to say the least! you don't have a hope in hell in sorting out anything in a society where injustices exist at such fundamental level..... keep feeding them slogans, they'll only go so far .... as we are finding out to our peril! ... you seem intelligent enough I think

Ijaz sahib,

I dont know whether I have understood Cheema sahib correct but I have seen folks like that in India. Mainly progressive politicians belonging to so-called Socialist and Commie parties but also some right wingers and regional parties. They rave and rant against English education, sometimes even raise mobs against them but at the same they send their own children and grandchildren to the same Public/Convent schools which teach in English.

Regards

Re: # 25
akcheema,

Please elaborate it.

Re: # 25

... and there are, of course, decent folk too, hamidm and tahmed being the obvious examples right here

Re: # 23; madani sahib

These are the true "brown" heirs of the "white" man! ... they take pride in their ability to read, write and converse in someone else's language (their colonial masters of course) and actively deny the same previlege to millions of others in the name of Islam and Pakistanism. This way, they maintain the upper hand.

Quite clever I reckon!

Re: # 5
tahmed sahib to add on Zardari also went to St. Pats don't think he ever graduated though.

Why all elites want to send children to "english establised schools". I have observed these student develop snobbery and have diminintive attitude towards ordinary or religious / muslim schools. I agree the people gone through these "english school " have advantage. But feel sad also after white people left still our slavary is now in our blood.British people left and returned to their lands we are still Ghulam in our own lands. May be we desserve like that.

when i was at Uni in London I knew someone from St. Patrick's...some fellow called Haroon although I'm no longer in touch....

good write-up but a bit long perhaps?
i loved my own school days in Oxford...

btw what are the best school in pakistan apart from KGS, Aitchison? which pay the best? as a teacher i got an offer from the British School of Karachi last year to work there but i turned it down although the money offered was very good indeed. How much do Iinternational) teachers at Aitchison make?

so we have another one from St. Pats

ijaz_gul: well, I agree with you that she needed to be arrogant.

... of-course in her exile days in London. Not in any public places.

#16 Posted by ijaz_gul,

... err ... no. But been around her several times.

did she shout at you?

#14 Posted by ijaz_gul,

Benazir was arrogant as hell. Scornful is the word I think. And this is first-hand.

but do you really feel she was snotty?

Afterall she had to live and fight in a man's world.

I think she studied in quite a few different schools... Jennings and CJM in Karachi and then presentation convent and then murree and finally kgs. Maybe I'm wrong about cjm, but I have heard of her mentioned as their most famous alumna.

Rabia,
She studied at Presentation Convent Rawalpindi and not J&M.
Tahie,
I was Zubair's Colleague, but he did Matric.

tahmed32: BB's character flaws could also be blamed on her later education (at Convent of Jesus and Mary and Karachi Grammar School!). All the girls I ever met from CJM were actually exactly as snotty as she was, come to think of it.

Re: # 9
Thanks for the update; what was YOUR year there?

Re: # 7
The Prinipal now is Noel Cyprian.
Cecil Chaudry is the Principal of St Mary's Lalazar, Rawalpindi.
Yes Nawaz Sharif, Salman Taseer, Mushahid Hussain, Majid Khan, at some stage Imran Khan, Javed Burki, Kamran Lashari, Ishaq Dar, Ramiz Raja,Shabbir Sharif Shaheed,Khwaja Harris and his brother Waqas all studied there.

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Re: # 3 IG
"...one just as good in Lahore. 'St Anthony's High School' on Lawrence Road. It was run by Patrician Brothers from Ireland."

Now Cecil Chaudhry (ex-PAF) runs it. Nawaz Sharif didn't exactly have his name up on the Roll Of Honour there!

Re: # 5

Was this school run by Irish Christian Brothers?

There are quite few of them spread over India .India gov since Independence have been Indianising it by refusing any new visa to 'unmarried irish christian brothers '.

The buildings are elegant built more than 100years ago

it was built basically to teach the Anglo only .Now its just another english medium school who has a sari wearing principal with no european discipline

I was at St Patricks in Karachi, and it was the most miserable dump I ever saw. Not a blade of grass on the grounds. Eagles would hover overhead during recess, and one of the bastards actually swept down and grabbed the french toast I was eating as lunch, and flew away. That lady teacher was a b#$%^h who caught me reading a comic book in class and took it away and never returned it - I was told she did this regularly to avoid paying for her own comic books. And then there was that sob sadist who picked up a student with both ears. The missionary father had the face of a constipated mummy. Musharraf was one of the pathetic specimen produced by that joint.

Needless to say, once I got the picture, I conveyed it to the bosses (my parents) who then put me in kindly old Mrs. Jennings school, where I first learnt that Pakistan was part of Asia. Although that school cant have been much either - I understand one of the pathetic specimen it produced was "gimme third term" benazir.

fouz mian,

.... father raymond must be turning in his grave ! ...... first he had to listen to musharraf butcher the english language for nine years and now you have managed to destroy whatever was left of st pat's reputation ........ i could not get past the first paragraph

..... chowk staff, please pull this article off the fp and send it to fouz's sixth grade english teacher for corrections ........ i hope she gives him three raps on the knuckles with a ruler (aka foota) for making her look like a fool !

Thre was one just as good in Lahore. 'St Anthony's High School' on Lawrence Road. Iit was run by Patrician Brothers from Ireland.

What an institution. It produced international level sportsmen, soldiers, politicians, civil servants and businessmen. Even today, most of the top brass in Pakistan belongs to this institution.

But what was so special about it?
Character building, self motivation, confidence building and a spirit of adventure. Most it was like St. Patricks, an inclusive institution.

Right now, Bishop Lobo who had been the Principal of St Pats and myself strive to raise the first university college of similar stature in Pakistan.

A mesmerizing account of your school days.

‘They were sporadic flashes of images, a cacophony of sounds, wafts of scent too intimate to name and a mélange of colours all mixed up to be recognizable; but they were strong, and I could no longer contain myself from walking inside and sitting on one of the benches in front of the Primary Section.’

Brilliantly articulated. Nearly every visit to Karachi includes a trip to my own alma mater.

‘Outside of my life at home, I owe perhaps everything to St Patricks.’

That says it all. As I do to St. Josephs!

Fouz:

Thanks for a gratifying trip down memory lane. St Pat's is a grand old school, and you evidently did very well there.

Ejaz