Faith and Religion

Kaale Khan,

It seems that Murad's rejection of your wahabi supremacist thought has rubbed your poor Islamist ego.....

Murad is a Shia and he has nothing to do with your Jehadic nonsense.....but he does believe in the Mandi taking care of idolators like me in future........so just relax...... he has no use for your jehad.

tesst

NKG, Ladduji, Pinkuji and Sanataniji

Please help in writing the script for the real movie on how and why recent converts become the most fanatic folks. Why they cause more harm to their native land, language and culture. Why do they were their faith on their sleeves.

Murarilal G,

I would like to take some real skill after spending about half an hour on this website on daily basis. I proposed to other folks to collaborate on writing a script for the movie depicting the progress from Sahaj Ram to Allha Ki Maa. Since you are good historian you can critique the script for its authenticity. You might be a good hand in digging some dirt out. But we will write the script of the movie to hold the mirror in front of our Shantic aka Islamic brothers. In all those yearly Affirmative action (AAA) meetings in corporate America first we learned was to beware of the folks who claim that they are progressive non practicing religious/supremacist folks. These so called intellectuals are the biggest bigots and racists. You can humanize five time Namazi but not these folks. I hope you are not one of these G intellectuals.

Since you are very good BA (Hon) how will you write the first scene depicting crook Sahaj Ram. Historical fact is:

"Iqbal's grandfather Shaikh Rafiq, was a Kashmiri Pandit named Sahaj Ram Sapru before his conversion to Islam and was a revenue collector. According to Dr R.K. Parimu, the author of “History of Muslim Rule in Kashmir" and Ram Nath Kak's book Autumn Leaves, Shaikh Rafiq had embezzeled state funds, and when his guilt was established, the Afghan governor, Azim Khan, gave him the choice of death or conversion to Islam. Sahaj Ram Sapru chose life, and assuming new names, he and his family moved to Sialkot in the Panjab."

My time is up!

Murarilal Lakhanpurkar G,

"But these are gross simplifications that I offer simply because you asked. "

What I asked was:

Why Dont you mention cold blooded murder of unarmed 85 year old swami and 70+ old swamini by Paulian/Popian/Christian, which was the cause of unrest in Orissa.

What do you mean by gentle? When last time Dharmic Prithwiraj was gentle, hot iron rods were put in his eyes, his children became male slaves/prostitutes and his wife became a randi.

You claim that you are so progressive non-practicing Shantic ie Islamic gentle-man. Would you please change your name to show where you come from and celebrate the local culture, history and pride to Murarilal Lakhanpurkar

But ask your self what will you do find the real culprit. The real culprit is your audience in the west who fund the arms such as AK47s which were used to murder the Swami and four others. You G never condemns these murders. Since you do not and high light the Hindu reaction so that more funds are sent to Christians from west to convert to divide and rule, your hands are red with Swami and other Hindu blood.

Murad bhai, thanks for returning.

Before we conclude what you believe, please confirm that we understand you right. You believe that -

1. The Quran, as it exists today, is (just like any other book) written by men (or women) dead long ago.

2. It does not deserve the sanctity people attach to it.

You have not told us what could be specifically wrong with the Quran's contents or with Islam's principles or practices, but for now, it will be good hear you either confirm or correct the above impression.

My objective is to be able to openly make the argument you make to the general Muslim public, so a proper and equally respectful dialogue can take place between Muslims and Hindus - a goal that you as a person of interfaith interests would naturally share.

Thank you.

Sometime after Godhra and Gujarat riots, I read in TOI a heart wrenching 'middle' written by one lady with Surname 'Beg' about her young son's painful experiences in school and otherwise. I wonder if they belong to Mr. Murad Ali Beg's family.
As an individual or as a family, Mr. Beg must be having a very egalitarian views on all matters pertaining to Religion. BUT when one writes an Article as a scholar for publishing in cyber space or otherwise then ONE SHOULD BE EXTREMELY DISPASSIONATE and SHOULD DETACH ONESELF FROM ONES OWN BEING TO HAVE AN IMPARTIAL UNBIASED OPINION. Some how, Mr. Baig's writings leave a feeling that this part is not being taken care of and that is why there comes the staements like Islamic world did wrong because of Afghans etc and Hindu world because of it being Hinduism.

And I do sincerely believe that Mr. Baig IS A WONDERFUL human being.
Regards

Re: # 102

Satya100 has a trick question that requires a writer to very carefully tiptoe through a minefield of religious sensitivities. But why should I only look for two bad things about Islam and two good things about Hinduism? Why not good and bad things about both?

But the first issue is to see how good and bad is defined in `Religion’ itself. My definition is a tradition of scriptures, customs and rituals that professional priests like the Maulvis and Brahmin priests manage and control. It is the scriptures that most define all religions and what they define as right and wrong so the innate sanctity of scriptures has to be our first concern.

History clearly shows that none of the scriptures of ANY religion were the words of God or even the exact words of the prophets or founders. The sanctity of the four gospels of Christianity (out of 102) is evident from the fact that they were only declared authentic by bishop Iranious in 185 AD or 153 years after the crucifixion. Good and bad were defined in the Jewish 10 Commandments (originally 612) that the priests reduced over time. This and other evidence clearly shows that the Testaments were Man’s creations and do not deserve the sanctity that people attach to them.

There is a similar story with the Quran that was written by Zaid Ibn Thabit and the definitive Madina version was released by Khalif Othman 33 years after the death of the Prophet. 200 years later came the traditions of the Hadis mainly compiled by Al Bukhari. There were several other revisionists over the years. So these too were neither the words of God, Gabriel or Muhammad but the pious efforts of human writers.

Hinduism is no different because there was a long transit with many revisions from the Rigveda to the other Vedas, Brahmanas, Ariyankas, Upanishads, etc. And much later there were several revisions of the Bhagavat Gita. In any case Hinduism was not known as a religion till 1826 when Ram Mohun Roy applied the label Hindu to unite a wide variety of varied beliefs, myths, rituals and customs that the Brahmins managed.

It was these clearly `man made scriptures’ and interpretations based on the scriptures that professional priests used or misused to define what they wanted people to consider good and bad. Heresy and blasphemy were based on these scriptures and used to terrorise all who tried to stray from the paths they had defined. For these reasons I do not think that any scripture deserves to be considered sacred.

The good that I see in Islam is that it was firstly the most unqualified adoration of the cosmic creator up to this time and that secondly it had such a clear code of moral and social rules that Muslim traders were the only ones that people could absolutely trustin midaeval times. This was more important for the spread of Islam than Muslim conquests. The bad was that Islam was a product of violent times where the pre Islamic Arab traditions of revenge and violence were condoned. But just see the evolution of the word Jihad. It is hardly mentioned in the Quran but occurs 199 times in the Hadis. Also bad was that many rules regarding food and behavior that were relevant in the 6th century were not valid in later times.

The beauty of Hindu philosophy (not Hinduism that means many different things) was that it was such an `inclusive’ philosophy that promoted the Karmic idea that there was a joyous divine speak in every mortal. It became ugly when some practitioners tried to make Hinduism rigid, angry and virtually Jehadi.

But these are gross simplifications that I offer simply because you asked.

Ok Where was I, hann

Instead of getting into Us Vs them, whole purpose of this project is to capture historical progress of this disease which associates human to their mind and body. The purpose is to save the kids from destruction because of hate. Our literary work needs to be judged on

1. Raising of human consciousness
2. Truthfulness
3 Healthy tastiness.

There is selfish interest of this gawar yours truly turning into literary type like you guys with your help.

So now would you please write the first scene where this weak mind Sahaj Ram enjoying his illgotten wealth with hukka panni. Pinkuji yuu are so good in Shero Sahyari so you could write about the gazals he listening with hukka pani with a Kashmiri Saki.

I can devote only 15-30 min for this project.

Pinkuji, Ladduji & Sanatani,

You guys are very literary types. I was going to stop visiting this site but then a good idea hit upon me. I was thinking if we can create a script of a movie which will throw light on historical progress of converts and their attitude of hating every thing local. I hope you guys understand. The way will do it is utmost love and with witness attitude.

for example:

"Iqbal's grandfather Shaikh Rafiq, was a Kashmiri Pandit named Sahaj Ram Sapru before his conversion to Islam and was a revenue collector. According to Dr R.K. Parimu, the author of “History of Muslim Rule in Kashmir" and Ram Nath Kak's book Autumn Leaves, Shaikh Rafiq had embezzeled state funds, and when his guilt was established, the Afghan governor, Azim Khan, gave him the choice of death or conversion to Islam. Sahaj Ram Sapru chose life, and assuming new names, he and his family moved to Sialkot in the Panjab."

=====
Instead

Happy Ganesh Chatturthi! We develop his Sakshi/Witness mentality and not get attached to mind, present and past minds and its thoughts/ideaologies and physical body. But do develop your six pack abs.

Stormy,

Used first time bear arm at age 12 for hunt of wild-bore. Recently even my teen kids got into this even though started as vegetarian. Personally I feel they should make a point of eating non-veg when they hunt and fish themselves. Let the Jeeva play/fight with you. When you eat later every cell of yours will thank that Jeeva for creating the nourishing brawn and bones.

Hamare BapJadone ehi kya ie biz of arms and farms, though they were small Rajas. Moreover, all our gods and goddesses bear arms besides vedas.

I would rather say there should have been compulsory draft to discipline, develop community feeling and patriotism in India. A draft of three armed services one year of community service of Gandhi/Savarkar type to remove castecism, corruption, nepotism, bringing Shantic and Paulian folks into main stream so that they will revere the local culture, language and history, and abolishing divisive relegion-ous ideology.

satya100,

please don't bear arms. You may end up shooting yourselves :(
with much respect,
thinking storm

Bear arm and kill to defend oneself, ones way of life and organizing as qa group is necessary to defend Dharma/Dhamma/Jaina. Nonviolence means also stop if necessary with physical harm violence of others. Dharma seeks balance which was some what lost in past few hundred years.

Murarilal G,

You claim that you are so progressive non-practicing Shantic ie Islamic gentle-man. Would you please change your name to show where you come from and celebrate the local culture, history and pride to

Murarilal Lakhanpurkar.


Someone here said you are married to a Hindu lady. Then would you please share names of your kids. Do they carry Indic names?

You are a hypocrite G unless you change your and your kids names to Sanskrit based names as most of the Indian do. If you do not like Sanskrit then pl take names such as Dhondya or Pandya.

Pinkuji/Ladduji/Sanatani/NKG I am done with G, you please take over.

Murarilal Lakhanpurkar G,

"I had raised the question of how the gentle and inclusive concepts of evolving Hinduism had become equally fanatic and exclusive."

Tum Sudhroge Nahi. Tum Durbari G-giri chodoge Nahin. Why Dont you mention cold blooded murder of unarmed 85 year old swami and 70+ old swamini by Paulian/Popian/Christian, which was the cause of unrest in Orissa. Tum meaningless English bahot fekta Hain. What do you mean by inclusive? What do you mean by gentle? When last time Dharmic Prithwiraj was gentle, hot iron rods were put in his eyes, his children became male slaves/prostitutes and his wife became a randi.

That gentleness is Adharmic. It was the wrong influence of Boudha and Jaina on Hinduism. India which was a leading country because of its ideas, maths, science and technology became in 1K years a popper with less than 1% world GDP. Please do not underestimate your audience. Even Ukrainan and Russian kids are knowing the fact what happened to India, Iran and central Asia after Islam and Christianity spread.

In western China Xinjiang there is a city called Kashi, even Phillipines was a Hindu/Dharmic country. Today dharma of purified form is Hinduism and it is restricted to 1/10th of what it used to be in terms of area and probably in population as well. Hindu Dharma is successfully thwarting devilish forces of Abrahmic religions such as Islam and Christianity.

"Because Im sure you will agree that the extremism of the Bajrang Dal or VHP as evident in the slaughter of Christians in Orissa today are a very far cry from the idea of Dharma."

Innocents should not be hurt. But ask your self what will you do find the real culprit. The real culprit is your audience in the west who fund the arms such as AK47s which were used to murder the Swami and four others. You G never condemns these murders. Since you do not and high light the Hindu reaction so that more funds are sent to Christians from west to convert to divide and rule, your hands are red with Swami and other Hindu blood.