Faith and Religion

Also, remember messengers have always been suspect of espionage, mischiefs and imposters. So do try to know who message the messenger is delivering. Verify credentials/intent of messenger and message itself before taking action. If highly suspect use truth serum and lie detection etc.

Murad Ali Beg's "Original" Distortions

Tahmedji, didn't have to search far. I was referring directly to Murad bhai's article 'Hijacking of Islam (http://www.chowk.com/articles/11273)."

There, Murad bhai's basic thesis relates to the "orginal message of Islam", and about how "Muslim leaders (around the world, need to) convince poor Muslims that Wahabi extremism is a heresy to the sacred words of Muhammad."

This wahabi heresy, Murad sahib informs us, "in its opposition to idolatry, even opposed the worshipping of Muhammad or other saints and praying at tombs. It demanded very strict restrictions on the rights of women, Hijab or Burkah, prohibiting the wearing of charms, going to sorcerers, etc."

All these "Wahabi teachings," according to Murad bhai, are distortions to the the words of Prophet Muhammad, just as is the Muslim opposition to "sects like the Bahai’s and Ahmadiyas."

#74 Posted by Eklavya

That was chemical solution for a chemical problem. Basically, it was direct way of indirectly suggesting that if a muslim feels everybody around him/her is making false claims then in future they may have something to rely upon. A DNA testing kit, a DNA profile of an average ARAB, A DNA profile of average north Indian and a software to do a quick comparison and tell you where you stand. That will at least clear the doubts whether they got converted or not. But such DNA testing may not be available soon:-)

pinku, yaar, haven't read all the earliest posts on this thread, but just your last last one (#72) seemed strange.

What has DNA got to do with beliefs, ideas, and identity? And people compare religions all the time, as properly as they can. Why should they (necessarly) adopt Buddhism?

Yes, if Murad bhai finds Buddhism more compelling than he finds Islam, then he should stop calling himself a Muslim (at least in a social context). But no other Muslims has made that claim, as far as we know.

If I misunderstood you, please accept my apologies.

Add to #72 Posted by pinku on

If as per process described in 72, muslims are ready to get converted to Buddhism, we can ask Hindus to convert to Buddhism as well. This will be their gift on joining new religion. Hinduism will be gone along with Islam. If they hate name Buddhism, they can change it to anything other than Islam (not back to same confined ego at all). We cna use name Christianity, but the material used will not be one God of bible:-)

Read it quickly, this may get filtered:-)

Easiest but not that practical solution is for Pakistanis, Kashmiries and Indian muslims to go through DNA test to know whether they have more genes in common with Sikhs, Jats, Rajputs and North Indian Brahmins or with Arabs. This will at least give them some surity about their ancestory and related conversion (if they have any doubt).

They will get to know their percentage of genese from both. If Hindu genese are more, then the next thing is to compare Islam and Hinduism properly, then ask them to adopt Buddhism (not saying Hinduism).

We should provide a cheap "do it yourself DNA testing Kit" that people can use at their homes:-)

Otherwise the normal solution is to reason and show what is wrong with religions in general and Islam in particular.

tahmedji, I will try to find the link/reference so everyone can be sure we are not misrepresenting or misunderstanding Murad Bhai.

My problem with people like him is simply this. All this claim of 'original messages' having been distorted is completely hollow and deceptive if it rests on clear and open distortions of orginal messages by oneself.

We can make progress only if we consciously do not follow the unfortunate route that Murad Bhai has chosen to follow. It stinks to high heavens. People who are openly religious bigots are far better, IMHO.

P.S.: I will post the link later today. Thanks for your patience.

For Murad Baig,

The stories of Upanishads (whether elephant one or Nachiketa or whatever), the Vedas, Puranas or Mahabharta or Gita (derived from Upanishads) were known to common masses since ever. Lots of them infact travelled to Arabs/Persia/Greece. So if and whenver you suggest that those things were not available to commomn people, you are making wrong statement. The hindu system always relied on fables/stories to make people understand what they are saying and they were expert in doing so. Hinduism has probably created more moral stories then any other system religious or not.

Lots of those stories were adpted and plagiarised by Arabs and foreigners and I am using word plagiarised because Arabs today try to deny origins of things that they passed to Europe.

tahmed32,
what do you mean by organized.

The one supported by large number of organizations, nations, lot of money, heavy propaganda machinery or not??

Or do you need one Pope, by that standard you wil conclude that Only Christianity which has few Christian nations will be caled organized, but Islam which has tons of nations and the lies of Saudi Arabia and Iran where the Head of the states themselves are under the rule of Islam will be considered un-organized. That is not a good reasoning though.

#66 in that case Murad bhai's philosophy does not smell like a rose. :-(

Re #52 Posted by guru on
Theoretically, religions shouldn't be allowed to buy people, doesn't matter whether you help those people with Rs 10 or Rs 10 lakhs. If this has to be done, it should be done without using a name of religion.

In fact it is ok to disallow conversion of any type, only people with bad intent (looking for convertibles?) will say that you need religious freedom. Christian missionaries went to China during Olympics and bought some Chinese. And USA asks China to allow religious freedom?? Why should China allow religious freedom, so that it can be messed up with all kind of idiocy and USA can meddle in its internal affairs. WIth religious freedom China and any number of kids, China would have disintegrated several times by now. The number of people killed would have been at least a order of magnitude more than what communists could execute till now. The sufferings would have been much more.

We need religious suppression and not religious freedom, people have already miused lot of religious freedom till now. If they need religious freedom, ask people to leave religion and live with God alone, .

And if somebody still asks for switching to some other religion then give them a month long compulsory training of what is wrong with that religion. Even after that if they feel it is necessary then let them do it but chanrge a heavy amount. I will compile the material that they will need to go through and the questions they will have to answer, and they will be allowed to consult any number of scholars, religious or not:-). Means instead of such freedom they need be discouraged. We know what is there in all religions, forget about just one of them.

tahmed ji, yes. And he has lamented/denounced opposition to the worshipping of Islamic saints.

#64 eklavya: does murad sahib worship saints? i must have missed that reading his article.

tahir bhai, can you or any other knowledgeable Muslim, help us non-Muslims understand this Muradi Islam that worships Islamic saints, and, according to tahmedji, smells sweet as a rose?

We non-Muslims are stumped as to how a committed Quranist can take that stand. Does the Quran - the orignal message - preach the worship of Islamic saints?

Who is distorting which original message here, other than Murad Baig and his "Muslim" supporters?

Re: # 46
"Afghan Atheist"

Join the unhappy godless bunch at ChowQ!

But until Murad Bahi can explain to you and to us what kind of Islam worships saints, and how the original 'message' of Islam's 'founder' - Prophet Muhammad - has been distorted, to us non-Muslims, this entire approach seems little more than large-scale deception - something one does not associate with good Muslims. :)