Why Zardari Should Be President!

Anil writes "Your niceties are killing many. It is sad to see Hamidm sahib becoming your fan, after I could not debate your nicities. There has to be a girl friend..."

Salam and greetings of peace my entrepreneurial friend. How goes this fine evening? in San francisco? Visit China town lately? Golden Gate bridge? Cable car? Haal chaal fine? baal bacha?

Thank you for your appreciation of my "niceties". I am basically a "nice" person and a girl friend has nothing to do with it. My "niceness" is overshadowed by some other conerns at times, those involving people and their misery, so please overlook the transgressions and carry on....

Have a nice day,

TNI Masadi

Masadi sahib:

Your niceties are killing many. It is sad to see Hamidm sahib becoming your fan, after I could not debate your nicities. There has to be a girl friend, Masadi sahib. Please come out clean. I will send you a bottle of California Water.

Tahmed sahib, salam and greetings of peace, you forgot one part in the quote below that describes you:

Then they came for me,
and I gave them my people and country,
and they give me treasures and riches....


Have a nice day, the judgment is nigh,
TNI Masadi

Hamidm: So you wont come to rescue me from Mr. Masadi's witticisms? Today you didnt speak up for me, so I am lost!! :-(

But...never fear.. this gives me an excuse to show how profound I am by posting the complete piece:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

Re: # 76

masadi mian,

.... as a fellow american and republican i have to come to tahmed's defense ........... oh, what the heck! ... have at it !

Tahmed sahib I am redflagging your post #73 where you refer to your baal bacha as "dogs". They indeed deserve a better father.

Thank you and have a nice day,
TNI Masadi

Salam and greetings of peace

Ahmad sahib has red flagged my post #76 despite my apologies for calling a spade a spade. Ahmad sahib, haal chaal? You wrote about your baal bacha in #73 saying, and I quote "These are the dogs i have in the fight."

Please have some respect regarding your offspring, don't refer to them as "dogs", and I merely likened them to you, which did not call for a red flagging.

Have a nice day,
TNI Masadi

p.s: there are many hypocrites and back stabbers on chowk. That does not bother TNI, thank you

tahmed writes "and i want my US born children to have a civilized country to which they are inextricably linked by ancestry."

First let me thank hamid sahib for his appreciation. Next, Ahmad sahib, how are you doing? Haal chaal? Baal Bacha? US born?

Ahmad sahib you don't have to worry about your baal bacha being linked to a civilized country by ancestry. The white man already links them more to Pakistan than to the US based on their skin color and the way their father looks... Regarding "civilized", they were born in an uncivilized land why would they seek "civilized" links. Finally, I am sure Mir Jafer was not a very "civilized" creature, should I say like father like son.....

Sorry to have crossed some limits but they were necessary, have a nice day and enjoy the iftar....

TNI Masadi

Re: # 74

masadi mian,

"Ahmad sahib has been hiding under the rock the mullah threw away after taking care of his business"

.... i like that !

hamid writes to tahmed"... which rock have you been living under? ."

Ahmad sahib has been hiding under the rock the mullah threw away after taking care of his business.

Have a nice day and remain raazi baazi,

TNI Masadi

#72 hamidm: i grew up in pakistan, not papua new guinea. and my best friends and relations are pakistani, not papuans. and i want my US born children to have a civilized country to which they are inextricably linked by ancestry.

These are the dogs i have in the fight.

As for zardari's favors, those justices have every right to go back to their jobs - they stood firm with the cj when Pakistan's future was at stake. and they, unlike the handful of expat pakistanis "standing in line" for handouts from zardari, need to make sure zardari does not cut off their pensions. While zardari is trying to humiliate them by making them stand in line - they will go down in history as being far better men than zardari or any of those "standing in line" for jobs or contracts from a corrupt politician.

Re: # 70

tahmed,

.... so if you don't have a dog in this fight then why are you getting all riled up ? .....just dil lagi and lufangerbazi? ..... are you saying that your interest in pakistani politics is at the same level as my interest in the the politics of papua new guinea and masadi's mating habits ? ....

.... and i did not mean 'fall in line' as it is commonly understood - i meant 'stand in line' and wait your turn as king zardari doles out favors ...... your beloved justices are doing exactly that as is everyone else ..... if you don't need anything from them you can afford to be a tamashbeen (aka voyeur); i can't because i still have business with the second most powerful man in pakistan - the patwari of adiala .....

zardari zindabad !

hamidm: actually, i think you keep "falling in line" (first mush, now zardari) out of sheer habit, rather than being an active office seeker. i know a few office seekers, and they are too busy lobbying to have time to chat on the internet.

hamidm: as for "falling in line" - maybe you and your brother law have a need to do that. most pakistani expats (myself included), have no need to "fall in line".

hamidm: i am neither in the govt nor in the opposition. nor am i an office-seeker - and so dont need to feign ignorance as you imply.

#67:

Hamidm sahib:

"...would put bill o'reilly to shame ....... how quickly we forget (or choose to forget) ! ..."

Who would like to remember such nightmares and reconstruct a country. Please give Tahmed sahib a break for forgetting it.

Re: # 59

tahmed,

... which rock have you been living under? ... dr shahid masood was the director of geo news who led the jihad against musharraf long before your droopy-eyed cj showed up on the scene ..... he was the darling of the islamists including nawaz sharif and other mullahs with beards of varying lengths ..... his tirades against musharraf would put bill o'reilly to shame ....... how quickly we forget (or choose to forget) !

..... anyway, you seem to be cut from the same cloth as maulana bhashani and nawabzada nasrullah who were always in the opposition regardless of who came to power - i hope you don't look like them ........ but you are not the only one - this morning my brother in law started telling me stories about how corruption has gone through the roof since the ppp came to power and how his boss has had to flee to dubai because zardari was trying to muscle in on his business .... according to him zardari is now demanding 15% because he has to give 5% to mqm ! .... i told him to shut because i had heard the same stuff in the ninetees when zardari started his career as a kleptomaniac ......... we shpuld all get in line like shahid masood, the cj of peshawar, the supreme court justices who took bai't yesterday, aitizaz ahsan who is looking for a ticket and everyine else who is lined up at zardari'c court ..........


zardari zindabad !
down with the unwashed masses - let them eat cake!

#65

Tahmed sahib:

Then you please also agree that Hamidm sahib's approach is also needed. It allows for changing the roadmap, a must for democracy.

#64 Anil sahib. There we are in agreement - As I said below to Hamidm, I like where we are today than when where we were last year at this time (when the terrorists and their puppet-master musharraf) were running riot.

Tahmed sahib:

I like your comment,

"...This "We have arrived" road map you mention is basically a blank sheet of paper with a pin in the middle that says "You are here". ..."

For an optimist in me, what more than a blank sheet of paper with "you are here" a pin in the middle, is what I would want.

I hope you do see it this way.

anil sahib #62: This "We have arrived" road map you mention is basically a blank sheet of paper with a pin in the middle that says "You are here". it tells you nothing more than that. :-)

Tahmed sahib:

May be Hamidm sahib believes only in "we have arrived" roadmap, as all others are too confusing.

Isn't this also part of democracy?

For example, Obama has arrived, and his roadmap, not Hillary's is believable. What is wrong in supporting believable roadmap, especially if you are a management consultant.

Not all still believes that he can reach the White House as elected president.

Morale of the story is that only believable roadmaps are the once that are traversed. This only means we should start the journey and keep the goal in mind. Murphy's Law will guide you, be warned.

To me in this journey, democracy in Pakistan was the goal. Lot of things happened due to Murphy's Law, Musharraff's Law and ISI's Law. Pakistan indeed has arrived.

in #59, para 5 should say " In doing so it is looking beyond the Zardari bandwagon."

anil sahib: i hope my post #59 explains my view on this question.

as for hamidm sahib need i remind you that was not pointing to any road map - he was merely acknowledging the reality that mush was in place and dutifully applauding him...until mush lost his job. similarly, in applauding zardari, hamidm is merely acknowledging the obvious fact that that zardari is now president and dutifully applauding him. no road map here, anil sahib.

if you wish to look for a road map, look at the forest instead of barking up individual trees.

hamidm #53 actually i only vaguely recall hearing about this shahid massoud before you mentioned him - like i said, i think it is more useful for purposes of forming an opinion on politics to look at the forest rather than the trees.

I of course have no doubt that what you say about him is quite true - after all, he is doing nothing different than what mqm has done. i.e., last year, when it thought the dictator was going to stay, mqm had treated ppp like the mafia treats rival gangs - and now is happy to be a junior partner to ppp. similarly, until early this year, mqm had claimed to be the only voice against waderaism in pakistan - and happily went around making deals with the biggest wadera around!!

EVEN IF these self-seekers were the only political forces in Pakistan, we are still better off than without Musharraf for obvious reasons.

But, that is not all. The fact is these self-seekers are not the only political forces in Pakistan. The true democratic forces are in fact not these wily politicians. The true democratic forces are a dynamic civil society led by lawyers and journalists, a powerful "fourth estate" (press), and an intelligent, well-informed electorate whose voice in elections can no longer be shutout by a dictator. These are the forces that toppled musharraf's government, not the drawing room schemers making deals in foreign countries.

PMLN has, wisely in my view, chosen to throw in its lot with these democratic forces. In doing so it is looking Zardari bandwagon. This will be good for Pakistan for which they will no doubt get full credit in history. And perhaps (although this is not so important either for Pakistan, or even for the individual concerned), in due course this will prove to be the winning strategy with voters as well.

The above is of course going beyond the "personality wave-length" that you seem determined to stick with. But hope this lengthy answer that I have troubled myself with providing while hurricane hanna blesses us with rain outside will make sense to you at some point.

Hamidm sahib:

I do not understand what is this obsession in Pakistan for independent judiciary. Do you?

In America, Bush administration appoints justices and shifts judiciary. He cannot fire justices, no one can, the House can impeach just as it can impeach the president. They outlast presidents.

Why Pakistanis don't ask for such a change in constitution, rather than be obsessed obtain re-appoint of old.

What made them more independent than the present justices?

Gangaram ki samajh mein na aaye.

Tahmed sahib:

After Zardari’s election, please at the very least acknowledge, Hamidm sahib’s acute sense of defining the roadmap to “change� and “power� in Pakistan. Between his narebazi he had been talking of a transition that did not complete in Nov/Dec 2007 (or whenever the first elections were due), it completed in Sep 2008. In between someone knocked off BB and changed the leader at the top. Hamidm sahib would change his “narebazi�, just as frequently and shamelessly as the wind of shame blows in Pakistan.

“Hamidm sahib Zindabad�,
the lone cyber warrior of Chowk.

Please join me, so that I can say once again
“Hamidm sahib Zindabad�.

and YLH I still hold this grudge against you when you threatened to kill me, if you are man that you say you are, then prdouce one article out of your imagination rather than research, and I will call it even!

This site is frequented by so manybig wigs, people with the inside info, can anyone credible kindly educate us for the reasons for Zardari' daughter's attempts to kill herself. The rumor has it that she was the one who called her mother to pop her head out of the bullet proof car at the behest of her father, only to realize later that she was an accomplice to her murder. And what about the Prince Bilawal's refusal to tie the know with Fatima Bhutto?

man, I tell you, Pakistan was doomed that the day we started giving leverage to "chooti yea" now I don't expect our NRP and our friends across the border to know what that stands for, but that for sure stands for the likes of the writers and all those who have stood for his line of thought... Well this day might as well be the saddest day in my entire life and I can say for sure that "so long Pakistan"

Re: # 52

tahmed mian,

... can you tell me what happened to dr. shahid masood - the champion of islam, the defender of the faith, the man who berated zardari and benazir and called them thieves and scoundrels ? .......... i will give you a hint: the chairman of ptv makes around 22 lakh rupees a month .....

king zardari zindabad !

and today is a great day for Pakistan thanks to the courage of the cj, i may add. no thanks to lotas, mqm ghoondas, or even zardari himself.

hamidm #49 I tell you to try and see the forest, and you come back and ask me to foretell the future career of a particular tree (the cj in this case). Unlike you (with your past predictions for the "rising sun") and bulleye (with his constant predictions), I am not in the business of predicting which stock will rise or all, which horse will win or lose a particular race.

Today is a great day for Pakistan - not because 10% was elected president, but because we have a president who has been elected per the rules (rather than thru a mockery of the rules, which is what your former hero did past 8 years).

hamıd mian; '... okay, name one ...... '

hmm....ı thınk aıtezaz would be a good choıce....raza rabbanı would be ok.....javed hashmı would be ok...akhter mengal from baluchıstan....sheıkh rashıd would be ok, had he not become a lota...he ıs about as self made as they come in pakıstani polıtıcs....

there are many more.....zardarı ıs at the bottom of the lıst...had benazır mentıoned your name ın her wıll, you would be the presıdent today.....

thıs govt. ısn't goıng to last more than three years....dıd you see gılanı's performance ın the usa...he ıs consıdered the bıll clınton of ppp, ın terms of personalıty, knowledge etc...

thıs govt cannot run a dıstrıct much less a country....many of them wouldn't know whether canada ıs north of usa or south....how ın the world are they goıng to fıgure out where pakıstan should fıt ınto the world's current sıtuatıon....

ın any case they are brıghter than sarah palın...and not nearly as fundamentalıst....so maybe there ıs stıll hope....

Re: # 48

tahmed,

.... you still haven't answered my question - is droopy going to be re-installed or re-appointed? .... and are the unwashed masses better off under king zardari ? .... is nawaz sharif coming back from london? ...... where is aitizaz ahsan? ...... when will allah ditta find atta to feed his ten miserable runts ? ..... when will islamabad have more electricity than baghdad ?

#47 hamidm: sigh..re-read #27. to repeat - the judges have shot their arrow, fired their bullet, done their job, by saving Pakistan from a rogue general.

tahmed,

.... are these judges being reinstated or reappointed ???? ......... be careful, there is a big difference that might not be apparent to a senior citizen like you .......

..... i just heard the new law minister asking your droopy-eyed judge to take an bait (oath) on zardari's hand and join the judiciary before he can be 'considered' for appointment as the cj ......... snicker! snicker!

Re: # 45

faruk mian,

.... we don't have 'ordinary people' in pakistan - we have pakis ......... there is a big difference

re: hamdim2 #44
There you go again looking for a messiah.

There is a lot of power in ordinary people doing small things.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: # 42

faruk mian,

"If and there is a big if, Pakistan gets an independent or quasi independent judiciary as a result of all these machinations it's worth it. "

...... it is a biiiiiig if .......i am all for an independent judiciary but i don't think it is going to happen ..... just look at all these 'independent' judges lining up to take oath even when they know that the droopy-eyed one will be left hanging in the wind .........you forget that we are pakis

can anybody please find me the text of notification whereby the judges are being re-appointed through fresh oath having their Nov 2 seniority intact.

hamdim2 #various
If and there is a big if, Pakistan gets an independent or quasi independent judiciary as a result of all these machinations it's worth it.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Regards,

Faruk

There is a heavy responsibility on Zardari's shoulder. At least give the devil his due!

There is a heavy responsibility on Zardari's shoulder. At least give the devil his due!

LOL @ system! Hahahah

What system would this be? Oh right...the Messiah system! Dheets!

hamidm: i guess you really are one of God's Special Children, and cant see the forest (system) because of the trees (personalities).

Never fear - I wont give up on you. Write this 100 times

It's the system, stupid!!

Then re-read my post #27, keeping this above line in mind as you re-read it.

victory for tahmed

ISLAMABAD: The summary of fresh appointment of four deposed judges of the Supreme Court has been sent to the President House according to the Ministry for Law.

The ministry sources told Abdul Qayyum Siddiqui of Geo News that three to four names of the deposed judges of the Supreme Court are included in the summary and in this regard, a notification is likely to be released by this evening. These judges are also expected to take oath today.

Re: # 35

tahmed,

.... you consider replacing musharraf with zardari a victory for the unwashed masses ? ...... haven't you seen them on tv raiding atta mills, pulling their hair and screaming obscenities at zardari and his mother ..... some victory! ..... and did you see aitizaz's rally yesterday - there were barely a hundred unemployable lawyers - like you, he is in denial and tried to cover up his failure by saying that everything slows down in ramzan ...... what a pile of horse doo !

king zardari zindabad !

hamidm #34 As Prof. Higgins would say, I think he's got it!! By jove, he's got it!!

Or do you still dont get how booting out a dictator and replacing it with mainstream parties at the helm can be considered a victory for the Pakistani people, or "unwashed masses" as you like to call them while getting yourself washed in that bathtub in Boondocks, Mi., with Prof. Higgins housekeeper scrubbing the lice out of your hair?

Re: # 27

tahmed,

.... so you are declaring victory and going home ? .... what happend to the movment for the restoration of the droopy eyed one ?......... and what do you have to say about ns fielding a presidential candidate who has done more damage to the judiciary than all the pco-2 judges combined ? .....

It's only a matter of hours now. Let's see who is proved right and who's wrong!

I agree with the author to the extent that so far Mr Zadari has gone by the book to get himself elected as the president of Pakistan on Septembers 6th presidential elections but the real question is on his capability as a president.i cannot seem to fathom the argument that after Benazirs' assassination he has evolved himself as the true national leader, in my opinion he has just taken advantage of the whole situation after her assassination.

How can we even think of accepting a person as a president who has looted and plundered the country and the argument that the courts have acquitted him of all the charges is baseless, because if u follow the details of all the cases against zardari one comes to know that the money looted has been transferred so many times under so any phony names that it becomes almost impossible to keep trail of it ,let alone forming a substantiative case against him. And what about all the cases in the Swiss courts ,not all those cases were initiated by the Pakistan government, and according to reports the prosecutors there had solid evidence to indict Mr Zardari,but before it could be done acceding to a formal request by the Pakistan government the cases were dropped against him.

Now in the scenario if he really becomes the president ,which seems very likely that he will, does he has the ability and the credentials to run a country, I pretty much doubt that. In my opinion under the “PPP leader ship this country is going to dogs�.

later...friends and friendettes

tahmed writes "damage" is the wrong word - Pakistan needs a strong military given that it has external threats."

tahmed sahib,

salam and greetings of peace to you. How goes? Haal chaal?
This excuse of "extrenal threat" is what created the monster we call Pakistan Army, as a foregone conclusion of the partition that would keep its people forever poor and forever enslaved. We need a people's army not this bs monster, which needs to be slayed.

Have a good day

TNI Masadi

hamid to bulleya "okay, name one ...."

Might I humbly suggest TNI Masadi for the post of President of the non-Military Republic of Pakistan.

He will ensure that your baal bacha are raazi baazi!

Have a good day,

TNI Masadi

in #27 second para. below, the "he" who doesnt need a job i am referring to is the Chief Justice of course.

of course, mush doesnt need a job either (he has already gotten away with the loot, thanks to Zardari) - and his place in Pakistan history is also secure, albeit in a totally different way than that of the Chief Justice!

#26 hamidm: i keep repeating and you keep ignoring that the cj has already fired his arrow, and struck home - mush got separated from his uniform, then lost his job as well.

he doesnt need a job to secure his place in pakistan history anymore. he doesnt even need a job to make money, rest assured (e.g. he could make a lot more than what you are probably making in the US if he was to cash in on the widespread recognition of his services and unique experiences).

as for the other judges - they have played their role, and made sacrifices. No reasonable person can blame them for going back to their jobs now that the dictator is out.

Please dont have me repeating this all the time - people might think that St. Mary's was a school for the retarded.

Re: # 24

tahmed,

.... i think haqqani wrote that srticle - zardari does not even have a diploma ....

..... anyway, how is the movement for the restoration of the droopy eyed cj going ..... i see that one of his closest buddies, the cj of the peshawar high court, is taking oath ...... damn lotas !

Re: # 21

romair mian,

"there are so many excellent candıdates ın pakıstan and ın ppp, who would be much better than zardarı"

.... okay, name one ...... did you hear mushahid hussain talking about pml-n's choice for president? ...... that cj seems to be just as bad if not worse than the pco-1 and pco-2 judges .......

.... i think we should bring back sheikh rashid - at least with him you get what you see ......

sheikh rashid zindabad !

Uninspired article from Zardari in the Washington Post today - only saving grace - he seems more serious than musharraf in fighting terrorism. and he lacks musharraf's absolute powers to back selfish aims.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090303 131.html

The thing is that the PPP does not want a Sword of Damocles hanging on its head in the shape of a possibly hostile president!

hmmmmm!!! impressive bulleya!

....any country that wants to establısh democracy has to fırst go through the phase, where ıts corrupt, ıllegıtımate etc. leaders come ınto power....they are then removed through more democracy and genuıne leadershıp comes up...

...the problem wıth pakıstan ıs that every tıme thıs phase starts, the polıtıcal leadershıps brıng pakıstan to a poınt where the whole country ıs about to go under....

...then the army comes ın....and ıs haıled as the savıor...ıt does ok for a few years and then goes on to do further damage....

then the same old polıtıcıans come ın....

the current group and state of pakıstanı polıtıcıans ıs 100% ıdentıcal to those of pre-musharraf era....hence nothıng has changed....

zardarı ıs a crook who wıll not declare hıs assets....somethıng every presıdent should ethıcally do....unlıke ns, who was also a crook, zardarı cannot claım a busıness empıre through whıch he earned hıs wealth....thıs ıs why ns can, now, afford an ındependent judıcıary, whıle zardarı cannot....

he ıs also an opportunıst, who was to be kept out of ppp affaırs, but came back ın through a wıll...and took over the party and thus the country...

so, democracy would demand that ppp should be able to elect a presıdent, regardless of how much the rest of the country abhors hım...and that the democratıc system wıll weed hım out eventually...

however, practıcalıty demands that the country may get stuck ın the same state, where ıt wıll reach a poınt, where the general publıc wıll start askıng for the army to come ın agaın, and the cycle wıll start over agaın....

there are so many excellent candıdates ın pakıstan and ın ppp, who would be much better than zardarı...and common decency (and legalıty) demands that the presıdent be a non-controversıal fıgure of hıgh moral standards who can remaın neutral....

zardarı faıls on all these grounds....whıle someone lıke gılanı passed on all of them, and hence receıved a unanımous vote....

rumor ıs that zardarı wıll remaın head of ppp also...ın whıch case the presıdency wıll become a ppp center, when ın fact ıt ıs supposed to be a neutral posıtıon....

ıf he does not remaın ppp chaır, then who wıll chaır the ppp....perhaps hıs sıster....whom he can project as the gaurdıan to the heır apparent of ppp....much lıke a guardıan would take over command of a kıngdom, untıl the young kıng was old enough to do so....

ıf hıs sıster takes over ppp, ıt wıll get ınterestıng....zardarıs wıll, then, have replaced bhuttos as the party owners....

ın any case, thıngs are not lookıng good for the polıtıcal set up....they, specıfıcally ppp, do not have the talents to run a country....

ı thınk people are now goıng to start lookıng towards pml-n....and ıf they screw up, then people wıll go back to the army....

ı suppose one gets the leadershıp one deserves....

only time will tell!

Beena,
I posted this on your ilog.
'Democracy is not trial and error specially when it has come at the heels of violence and assasinations. Pakistan can least efford becoming a lab in such difficult times'

As far as my view goes, thumbs up for Zardari as long as he contradicts the perceptions about himself. So far his conduct leaves a lot to be desired and he has only confirmed his negative perceptions. PAKISTAN KHAPPAY is a good slogan but is it manifested? Events point that he is back to his old ways.

very true harish!!!

Politicians the world over resort to deceit and manipulation in order to earn the position they covet; Pakistan is no exception. Zardari is perhaps only as corrupt as any average Indian politician is. The difference is in India a democratic system of checks and balances has managed to keep a check on politicians' greed if only to some extent (Pakis seem to forget that no system can completely eliminate corruption) while in Pakistan, the military completely destroyed all such systems; enabling Zardari to make hay.

So the major part of the blame for Zardari being what he is lies squarely on the Paki military. Now if only it could keep its hands off the Paki government, we can see a much improved Pakistan at least 20-25 years down the line.

I am not a Zardari fan but I believe that we need to exercise some patience and restraint at this crucial juncture. Here's the link to a piece I wrote for IPS (also posted on my Chowk blog)
PAKISTAN: Giving Democracy a Chance - http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43742

Also see:
'Democracy, warts and all' By Saad Shafqat, http://www.dawn.com/2008/09/01/op.htm#1

'Why this fuss over Zardari?', by Farhatullah Babar
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=133670

Tahmed sahib,

(Pakistan needs a strong military given that it has external threats.

From whom:

India. Why would it invade Pakistan?
Afghanistan. A nation whicgh exists only on paper.
China. An all weather friend.
Iran. No border disputes.

So who does Pakistan fear exactly?

Regards

#11 you got this one right, except "damage" is the wrong word - Pakistan needs a strong military given that it has external threats. the sooner PPP rids itself of the wadera Bhutto legacy and of zardari, the better it will be for pakistan.

Dear masadi!
The art of practical politics is a different ball game altogather. Yes, we need institutions but a lot of ground has to be covered before we get there!

BTW this tendency of the authors placing their mug shots next to their articles is a despicable and at times a nauseating experience (where it concerns Gill and Sohail). Please refrain from such practices even though I understand you all consider yourselves the epitome of artistic perfection, especially Mr Paracha

Have a nice day, haal chaal baal bacha etc
TNI Masadi

It is not about trying, it is about constructing civil institutions destroyed by the Pakistan Army, and taking advantage of this low in their image to do them as much damage as is possible so that they stay the hell out of politics in the future. Zardari is not the proper man for such a job, especially with a very weak PM. It is not kingship we are establishing but "democracy", and playing into the hands of the military is not a smart move...

Well, why not try Zardari as he comes from a majority party?

Pakistani politics….

I knew that marriage of convenience between NAWAZ AND ZARDARI will collapse,and soon there will be musical chair replayed again. Zardari and Sharif, having set aside Musharraf, �have begun the far more vicious process of trying to eliminate each other, The final resolution of this conflict will only come after another general election or martial law. In the meantime, the two will try to maximise their control over the instruments and institutions of state. Sharif has his sights on the Supreme Court, which has become the only reserve bank of credibility in a nation where the Constitution has been amenable to the doctrine of necessity — in simpler words, where the judiciary has legalised events rather than law being the determinant of fact. Zardari is more audacious, seeking the supreme office in the land, that of the President, since he is surely convinced that he will not get office through a popular vote. �Zardari and Nawaz, both are not Angels but I think its better for survival of Democracy in pakistan that the most corrupt politician NAWAZ SHARIF quit Coalition. It was from the very beginning like an unholy alliance. But it was not sure that both the majority parties of the country will plunge into "power struggle" to oust each other when an opportunity arises. Nawaz Sharif and his cronies entangled Zardari several times in promises and pseudo-political agreements on the judge’s issue, at such crucial moment when the country is encircled with deep internal and external dangers. The government of PPP was working under stress from the very beginning, because of the hostile attitude of Nawaz League and lawyer’s agitations. The demand of Nawaz Sharif and his supporters was undemocratic to reinstate the judges through a dictatorial order which they term as 'Executive order'. Zardari insisted again and again that the judges would only be reinstated through the Parliament which is the supreme body and the issue would be resolved there. It is in the interests of the country and the government that the unholy alliance is now finally broken.
There is a long list of NAWAZ CRIMES AND HOW HE STOLE MONEY WHEN HE WAS PRIME MINISTER. Nawaz Sharif is widely acknowledged to be a highly incompetent person, with a mediocre I.Q. level. The brain behind him was that of his late “Abba Jee� - the mastermind and the main decision maker behind the scene. In order to consolidate and attain more power, N. Sharif attacked every individual and institutions he felt could get in the way challenge his authority. In order to get rid of the then Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah, who was despised by Sharif, the later created divisions among the judges to make life difficult for the Chief Justice. A group of judges refused to acknowledge Shah as the Chief Justice and things got so bad that a number of junior judges put hurdles in the way of the Chief Justice in order to make it difficult for him to carry out his duties. Eventually, Sharif ordered his thugs to attack the Supreme Court in order to prevent the Chief Justice from giving a ruling against him. The police did nothing to stop Sharif’s thugs as they attacked and entered the Supreme Court. The judges inside the building barely managed to escape. The thugs, led by Sajjad Naseem and Mushtaq Tahir, Nawaz Sharif’s political secretaries, entered the court chanting anti-Sajjad slogans and destroyed the furniture. Nawaz Sharif’s only agenda was to make money. In order to achieve this goal, he formed/changed laws and policies for his personal benefit and expanded his business empire by misusing his authority as Prime Minister. Nawaz Sharif, after meeting Osama bin Laden personally at least three times in Saudi Arabia and receiving a huge donation for reelection campaign, democratically elected government of Pakistan under Nawaz Sharif facilitated relocation of Osama bin Laden from Sudan to Afghanistan in 1996 to prove his (Sharif’s) own confides as a ‘true jehadi’ because Osama had taunted Sharif not being a ‘true jehadi’ in one of the meetings. members of the ruling party, including Prime Minister Sharif himself, had through illegal and bizarre use of power and influence obtained massive loans from some public-sector banks, leading to the banks' failure. Nawaz Sharif had a history of terrorizing professional journalists. The press faced intense repression during Shariff's second term .In June 1997, Humayun Fur, Peshawar bureau chief of the daily Mashriq, was detained under charges of "anti-state" activities and sentenced to five years in jail by a military court on 9 September 1997.On 8 May 1999, Najam Sethi, editor of the Friday Times, was arrested in Lahore and held without charge for nearly a month by Inter-Services Intelligence. The government finally charged Mr Sethi on 1 June 1999 with sedition, promoting communal enmity, condemning the creation of Pakistan and advocating the abolition of its sovereignty, and violating the Prevention of Anti-National Activities Act. Two other journalists M.A.K Lodhi of The News International and Hussain Haqqani, an opposition leader and columnist for The Friday Times and daily Jang were also arrested. Rehmat Shah Afridi, editor of The Frontier Post, was arrested in April 1999.Extra judicial killings were rampant during the regime of Nawaz Sharif. In 1993, custodial torture and custodial deaths were reported throughout the country, particularly in Sindh province where about 40 cases of deaths in custody and encounter killings of suspected criminals or political detainees were reported during January- June 1993. Mr. Nawaz Sharif always have undermined the interest of the country for his own. He is such a selfish man who can't work with others. When the country is striving for unity he is further dividing.
Lost my trust long ago. He must come to understanding- a few judges don't match the whole nation's interest. He must stop playing in the hands of outside enemies. Nawaz Sharif must not forget that his vicious comments for the former President, claiming that he wants him hanged, only reveal his own character as a human being. I wonder what would have happened if the former President had used the same language eight years ago and plotted and ordered a similar fate for Mr. Sharif? Where would Nawaz be right now? Probably hanging in some photo frames in the huge family estates he built for himself from nation’s pockets to live in forever and ever. Nawaz must remember that he was involved in hijacking of Musharraf plane and destroying lives of so many on his plane.

Although I always love Z A BHUTTO but I hate to say that Mr. Zardari is not on my favorites list. In democracy, 2/3rd majority rules. But, our current democracy was developed on a famous definition which states; "In democracy, two wolves and a goat vote to decide what to eat for lunch". Now, after getting rid of the scare-crow Musharraf and being free to play their own nature, the two wolves have returned to their old self and pounced upon each other for enjoying an exclusive feast. But, in their greedy haste they have forgotten that, "when two dogs fight for a bone, patiently observing crow is the winner. Pakistan is an unfortunate country of 160 million Muslims who have borne the agony of living in illusion of democracy since its inception. As the time passes citizens of this country continue to lose confidence in their survival as members of an independent and sovereign nation. Some even start questioning the intentions of its creators. We as a fashion start blaming our neighbors and superpowers for interference causing miseries for Pakistanis. It may be true to a great extent but every nation protects as well as enhances its own national interest for which there is no rule of mercy or lawfulness or humanity. We must look at our own character reflected through our leadership.....political or military. It is sad and shameful that our neighbors like India and china will be super powers by year 2050 but Pakistani nation is still living in stone age, religious fanatics are killing their fellow Muslims ,people are killing their daughters and giving it a honour killing name, today all over the world Pakistan is known as a country of terrorists and ignorant people, cold blooded and barbaric honor killing of five innocent women in Balochistan is another black spot on nation’s character. There is no place in a modern society for such medieval and brutal customs, all this is happening because Pakistani elite club never cared about educating people, Pakistani elite and bourgeois kept their nation in dark so they can steal nation’s wealth. Every Pakistani politicians thinks its his qualification if he goes to jail, and the problem is that even majority of these politicians are not highly educated. Democracy and feudalism cannot go together. Just like we claim that democracy and military uniform can’t go together, we need to admit that neither can democracy and feudalism. Both Nawaz Sharif and Asif Zardari are actually dictators wearing cloaks of democracy to fool the nation. The problem is Pakistani society as a whole does not know what Democracy is, this includes the media, public and politicians. Four notorious Pakistan Army generals are also responsible for damaging democracy in the country, General Zia ‘religionized’ the military to an extent that it’s motto during his time was converted to Emaan(Faith), Jihad (Holy War) and Taqva (Piousness) Fi Sabilillah (For the sake of Allah). Services book club printed thousands of volumes of Jihadi text, the whole fight in Afghanistan was fought in the name of religion. This resulted in elements of the military sympathizing with religious and Jihadi groups and turned Pakistan into a safe haven for them; they later emerged as Al-Qaeda & Taliban. He amended the constitution so that he could dismiss elected assemblies at his will, which he exercised in 1987.General Musharraf also played havoc with the constitution in place, suspending it twice, abolishing all fundamental, constitutional and human rights of a nation of 160 million. He marginalized the Balouch and Pasthun ethnicities via military operations in minor provinces. Divided the society with his newfound ‘moderate’ and ‘hardliner’ Muslim themes. Intelligence agencies unleashed illegal abduction operations which resulted in the infamous “Missing Persons� case of hundreds of people abducted by agencies and “disappeared�. Moreover, the democratically elected leaders, especially sitting Prime Ministers have been removed from the national political scene by the military covertly or overtly, during the coups or during the tenure of dictatorships. Prime Minister Liaquat Ali was shot (1953), Opposition Leader Miss Fatima Jinnah was strangled to death, (1966) Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto hanged (1979), Prime Minister Junejo removed (1987)These power hungry Generals love keeping Pakistani nation in the doldrums, these Generals never hesitated to put Pakistan in Rack and ruin. These power hungry Generals worship their foreign masters in west. Nations take great pride in their armed forces, The dream of Pakistan that was visioned by Allama Iqbal and turned into a reality by the hard work and democratic struggle of Jinnah has gone sour because of these generals. The country suffered a great loss in 1971 when its own Army surrendered in shame after committing one of the worst human right crimes in history and perpetrating the holocaust of three million people who were the citizens of Pakistan. Global media coverage of Pakistan suggests a country consisting of Generals, corrupt politicians and bearded lunatics. Pakistan needs stability, economic vibrancy, poverty alleviation, more education.
Its really amazing to observe political developments and politicians in Pakistan, it seems like Pakistani politicians does not have any agenda for the welfare of their voters. I don’t see anyone talking and discussing how to solve crisis like load shedding, clean water to all citizens, health benefits for people, education etc.. Majority of the members of national and provincial elected members are feudal, aristocrats, landlords or dynastic elected members. The grass root Pakistani are not represented in the assemblies and are not giving the rights to pass legislation to alleviate poverty, hunger, disease, illiteracy and express their views. The poor people cast their votes under pressure, financial bribes and threats. Pakistan can never be a true democratic nation, unless the illiteracy is reduced, the judiciary is clean, bureaucracy is defeated and every Pakistani from cities, rural areas develops the political acumen. On the other hand beside failed politicians and Army generals Pakistani Mullahs are great barrier to the development of true democracy in Pakistan. Elected or not elected, these politicians have not created jobs; rather for political gains they have used national wealth, PIA, Railways and other government departments. No one has developed economic and business policies, which could develop country. Pakistan needs a revolution. This is the time that we abandon 60 years old British style democratic system, which has always protected and promoted only rich, feudal, corrupt, looters, and uneducated politicians. There is no place for educators, lawyers and intellectuals in Pakistan's politics, which is a great political tragedy .














Mwaqar

Leadenwinter writes "Very simply.. Zardari should be President because the Pakistani public deserve Zardari as President."

Another magic trick by a dimwitted Army supporter. Zardari has nothing to do with "the people", he has more to do with army and US deal making. If he becomes the president his manipulative deal making which reflects the nature of Pakistan Army/US and not the people of Pakistan. In fact the choice of the Pakistan Army/US for handing over the mantle of "civilian facade" to their behind the scenes rule reveals their dirty nature and not the nature of the people of Pakistan.

No matter how many times you try to drill into the pakistani mind that they do not have the intestinal fortitude for pains of democracy, they always come out all droopy eyed like Tahmed. No matter how many times you tell them, it is a messiah they want. they fire kalishnakovs in the air at the mere change in governance optics. Now they have both...a Democratically elected Messiah :)

Re: # 2

leaden,

are you trying to say, "jaisa mun waisee chapair" ????

The man is so controversial and notorious that for the sake of goodwill of the country he should not be made president. Some neutral figure should be the head of state.
However, I guess since he is not using force to declare himself president but using majority vote he sadly deserve the post. You have to give him credit for being the smartest criminal in the history of Pakistan.

The author has clearly no idea about the constitution of Pakistan, otherwise he would known that anyone who wants to be the president of Pakistan is required to fulfill all the conditions for being a member of a parliament first (e.g. declaring assets etc.) which AZ has not fulfilled.

Moreover, the president of Pakistan can be dismissed from service if he is mentally unstable as per the constitution of the Republic of Pakistan. Mr Zardari submitted in court, reports from two professional psychiatrists that he was mentally unstable, suffered from dementia etc. Thus, once again, he is not eligible for the seat of the president.

But I guess I understand the emotions of the author...... maybe its better to let him have it and expose him and PPP for once and all......

Leadenwater: Thanks for confirming what we all suspected about Musharraf and his lotas - the welfare of the Pakistani people is less important than the welfare of Musharraf and his lotas.

Very simply.. Zardari should be President because the Pakistani public deserve Zardari as President.

I agree that Zardari is a controversial personality!