There is no ‘honour’ in killing

Re: # 23
HP mian, these so-called fundamentalists use one and only thing in their defense when interrogated, tradition camouflaged by "their" understanding of faith.

Please don't comment on things you don't know anything about.There is no religious involvement in this case and what you wrote is just ridiculous.

I wont call your understanding of my comments ridiculous not knowing how much you yourself know about these traditions, but my understanding is about what I know, killing or taking a human life "for any reason" specially such as understood from the given story is nothing more than inhuman while there are those who commit these acts and consider it to be fulfillment of their faith based understanding, which may or may not be related to this particular case.

Mullah is nobody in the Baloch life. In Balochistan, you will rarely find mosques or Mullah using loudspeakers to spew his non-sense. This hooliganism of building mosques in every galli and mohalla was brought to Pakistan from India after 1947.
Mosques and fundamentalism is not part of Sindhi, Balochi or even Punjabi culture. So please keep your posts to the issue and do not bring in your own prejudices in this matter.
The Balochistan I know always had Muslims and Masjids, similarly it goes for all other regions that you have mentioned, the word Mullah in my humble understanding represents those who aspire to take up religious leadership on their own while lacking the proper knowledge.

In case where readers of comments do not agree with what another has to say, those who are in their proper senses discuss the matter and refrain from personal attacks on others, however one chooses to comment merely reflects on the description of their own personality measuring which in this instance measures quite low, while your "hatred" against others is quite obvious based on your writing.

Talk about hooliganism, it drips from every word in your comments, which is not very impressive, while it fails to suppress when and what I have to say in terms of opinion and I don't find it necessary to for an HP to validate my statement of opinion.

#35

Is ther eany law FOR protection of men .We condenm honor kiling like murder ,rape, domestic violence etc etc.Men are automatically considered as perpetrator or strong by themselves .Its fact there are men weaker than women & also vulnerable to be kiled abused under threat of in laws or laws .Men are never seen as victim and i am saying here although its not the topic but we seldom protect men only women

I am not twisting words. I am pointing out that he doesn't disagree with this; talking about his problems with India's dowry and divorce laws, both of which, btw, are still underutilised by still-suppressed women, is inappropriate for this board.

Oh, and parthaab, your views on the Aarushi murder also denigrate two men: the father who blames himself for being unable to save his daughter and was accused wrongly of her murder, and the domestic worker who seems to have been killed by Aarushi's murderers for trying to protect a young girl he apparently loved as a father. So before trying to fit everything into your narrow line of thought, think again.

Re: # 32; nb

Parthab bhai was actually writing against and not for ... as far as my understanding goes

please stop twisting words ... his and mine

akcheema, parthaab, does either of you think honour killings are acceptable?

Re: # 30; parthab bhai

I am beginning to come around fast to your point of view ... I think it has enough merit to be discussed with a level of openness that we extend towards our female counterparts from time to time

Re: # 29

nb, You are a woman - so your reaction does make sense.

My principle is - when you see an injustice, never let it pass - ESPECIALLY if it has the potential to be done to another. As a woman though, I do not know if such advice is applicable to you.

Parthaab, please go and do your rona dhona somewhere else. thanks!

Israel :

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Israel_in_a_fix_over_killer_mother s/art icleshow/3441905.cms

America :

Fight with boyfriend - Woman COOKS baby alive!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/29/microwave.baby.ap/index.html

Re: # 24

Females, almost by instinct, blame their husbands for any of their troubles. To such an extent, that feminists in India have brought in draconian anti-male legislation, through which females wield enormous powers to extort money from their husbands.

All I was saying, is that in this context, I would be happy if the females looked at their OWN family/father, who would nt give them their due in family inheritance, and would kill their lovers/husband at a moments notice. I am NOT defending any kind of killing.

Unmarried people here might not know it, but whenever there is a problem in the family, the wife usually turns to her father and HE in turn, usually does all he can to intimidate the son-in-law and destroy his family. Male stereotypes help in the social and media ostracisation. Financial extortion is the name of the game, and goes by other names, including 'alimony'. It would be a change for the better, therefore, if the females looked within their own family, and asked themselves if they were really that trustworthy to be trusted with domestic problems.

In all the examples I have quoted, it was not the wife, but her husband who needs police or legal protection - from the wifes father!

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20080903/812/tnl-more-than-dowry-property-laws-m ake-g.html

In a significant study, that brings out the true relevance of dowry in India today, the CSR has found that female foeticide is related to property inheritance, rather than dowry.

Dowry itself, is a form of female inheritance in India, but has been unfairly blamed on the son-in-law. The anti-male laws, called 'anti-dowry' laws, are misused, when there is a discord in the family, and the draconian features of
these laws, destroys the family quickly. Lawyers and judges are clearly not interested in genuine or cheap resolution of 'divorce cases', and divorce comes after a long time and price for the harassed husband - all in the name of 'dowry
harassment'!

Unlike studies sponsored by feminist NGOs, to show males in poor light ( such as the recent one suggesting that divorces are due to 'male genes'), this CSR study thrashes the feminist propaganda that dowry is responsible for mothers killing their female children, and finds the real reason for the existence of dowry elsewhere - in the unwillingness of the girls parents to share their property
equitably.

Since males rights is a bad word in India, while womens welfare is not, MALE AWARENESS of these issues is a huge problem, particularly among the unmarried, and needs to be CREATED.

#22 Posted by HP,

Thanks for placing this whole matter in the correct perspective, instead of the madness being spewed by these ignoramuses.

Re the Dr. Shazia Rape Case which you have mentioned, I had asked the (then) Director Finance (now the MD) of Pakistan Petroleum who's a close friend as to what's the true story. PPL owns the Sui Gas fields on which the rape is alleged to have been committed.

He had simply said "Yeh bohat lamba chakkar hai". You would know what he meant of-course.

Phosha #16, you and parthaab make a fine couple.

Re: # 6
Partha-babu....
These are mere exceptions. In most part of India, female literacy rate and cash earning, work force participation is quite low. So, the womenfolk in society are generaly vulnerable. I request you, not to draw conclusion based on one or two observations and seeing, what is happening in Kolkata/Durgapur/Mumbai etc...The issue is something definitely serious.

"Another sad chapter scripted by the ignorant so-called fundamentalists who in their hollow minds assume they did something good by killing those who wanted to exercise their God given right to chose their life-mate."

MatloobZaman,

Please don't comment on things you don't know anything about.There is no religious involvement in this case and what you wrote is just ridiculous.

Mullah is nobody in the Baloch life. In Balochistan, you will rarely find mosques or Mullah using loudspeakers to spew his non-sense. This hooliganism of building mosques in every galli and mohalla was brought to Pakistan from India after 1947.

Mosques and fundamentalism is not part of Sindhi, Balochi or even Punjabi culture. So please keep your posts to the issue and do not bring in your own prejudices in this matter.

While agreeing with Beena and there are no words strong enough to condemn Mr. Zehri’s statements in the Senate, I would also point out that it seems that case is unraveling. From five women shot, and buried alive to we have come down to two women. We also see weird stories that women were hit with a blunt object to now sticks and stones.

It will take a little while to get to the bottom of the whole story but let’s just first look over some realities in Baluchistan.

I am not going to say that men and women are not murdered in Balochistan but for every one woman perhaps 100 men die first. How many reports do we see of women being killed in Balochistan in the national or in the local media? While stories of Kara-kari are common place from Sindh and different parts of Pakistan, we almost never hear these stories emanating from Balochistan.

The Baloch never at any time in history followed the mainstream sunni or shia Islam. Baloch follow a branch of mysticism that is influenced by Persian Sufism and Buddhist culture so whatever the truth we find in the story, this thing is not related to Islam in any way.

Allegiance to the tribe takes precedent over ethnicity, flag and religion for Baloch. Things are changing though and many Baloch who have had some education and are politically active prefer to be called Marxist and atheist.

Whatever we say about the Baloch traditions and tribal culture in Balochistan, burying women alive is not a Baloch custom at all.

I have serious doubts about the story that these poor women had chosen to marry of their own or wanted to marry outside of the tribe. The way the segregation in the tribal cultures works, it is next to impossible for a woman to find her soul mate all by herself and out side the tribe. Yes, poor Baloch women work in the fields but young and unmarried girls are rarely allowed to help out in the fields. And even when they work outside, they are mostly working with people of their own tribe and not with outsiders.

Honor in the tribal societies is a fact of life and a cause of many murders but in Balochistan the honor killings are not about women, they are about men. A Baloch will defend his honor. Baloch also know that another Baloch would never disgrace women no matter how outrageous the tribal rivalry is. So chances are we will find men murdered for honor rather than the women.

I hope readers would understand the cultural issues and also that there are some aspects of this case that cannot and will not stand media scrutiny.

Whenever the Baloch nationalist movement picks up steam, we see some incident in the media to malign the Baloch and undermine their political struggle in Pakistan. Couple of years ago, when the Pak army was busy fighting the Bugti tribe and Sardar Bugti over the Gas royalties, a case of rape in Dera Bugti suddenly made the headlines and behind those headlines, the army multiplied its forces in the area. Thanks to the newly awakened Pakistan media then, the story quickly turned against the army itself when the media discovered that there was actually some hanky-panky and the involvement of one army officer was established. That army officer was never brought to any trial.

Israr Zehri has a history of supporting the federal government in the area. In fact, the patriarch of this tribe Sardar Nabi Bux Zehri used to be the biggest government supporter and held pretty much all the marble mining rights in Balochistan.

I hope the media follows through and digs for more details. Like the prior incident, media may find some hidden hands in this matter too.