The God Delusion

Re: # 273 pinku
you keep ignoring the central point - that is why it is said that mind is not always trustworthy - granted you never evre ignore all the achievements of mind - no one is saying that. And there is no romanticism in seeing things for what they are: half naked. Do you claim to know everything?

To reiterate, the central point was in the centre:

"All sacred can be turned profane
Yet in profane there some sacred remains

More for #269 Posted by quin on September 21, 2008 2:55:26 pm

[[There is more to it than our eyes can meet.
]]


There is more to it then even our mind can meet. But what our mind has already met successfully should not be ignored else it is our problem. So no excuses for ignoring mind and comforting ego.

Re #269 Posted by quin on,

[[World is not always what it seems to be]]

Good romantic thoughts, if it happens sometimes that you don't know what is fair and what is foul, it ok.

But when fair is foul and foul is fair and if that happens too many times there is something wrong with mind, and if that is done deliberately then you lost control over it completely.

Overall when this happens because of conditions out of your control it is still acceptable but if somebody justify stupidities based on this then it is not a romantic thought, it is root of deception or evilness.

Re: # 270 saqibtahir,
These are the real issues, and real perspective on such issues. These are the type of the posts we need to have in order to understand various aspects of a social problem which is brought to the table by a writer. It is a very commendable and refreshing post bringing back to focus the problems put forth in the original 'article'.

And above all, this response is an example which shows the potential of engaging into various aspects of an issue in a sensible and productive way at the Chowk forum.
I am unaware of internal working of Ahmedia group, but coming from a member (or ex member), it is revealing, though it never justifies any violence against anyone.

Violence is unjustifiable in any fashion, in any type, by any group or person against any group or person or even an animal. That is my conviction.

I hope someone else more knowledgeable can throw light on the aspect which post # 270 brings forth.

Thank you Saqib Tahir.

Crimes against Ahmedies in Pakistan and rest of Islamic world are condemnable and Ahmedies should be allowed freedoms to practice their religion. All discriminatory laws against Ahmedies must be scraped.

At the same time I advise Ahmedies also to change their policies and stop cruel practices like 'social boycott', expulsions, hate propaganda, forced divorces and family breakups that they use against people who chose to leave Jamaat or express dissent about the policies or personal behaviour of Ahmedi leadership. It is highly hypocritical that Ahmedies don't allow any Ahmedi to object on any belief or people of Mirza family but expect that others will tolerate their beliefs that are in conflict with some basic tenants of Main stream Islam.


A lot of problems against Ahmedies are direct result of social isolation that Ahmedies have self-created due to their policy of not having marital and social relations with non-Ahmedi Muslims. This policy of Ahmadiyya has made this community a fortress community that is held hostage by their own dogmas - many purely based on hate.


I am an Ahmedi by birth and held many positions in Jamaat in my youth. Right now I am facing a severe social boycott by Ahmedi community including families of me and my wife. Is such practice human? My only crime was that I criticize corruption among clergy and so-called holy Mirza family and also some wrong practices including discrimination against women.

"Fair is foul and foul is fair"
Macbethean witches of Shakespeare say.
All sacred can be turned profane
Yet in profane there some sacred remains
World is not always what it seems to be
There is more to it than our eyes can meet.

#267 Posted by quin on

Sorry quin, you can cherish your thoughts, but Kuran is most stupid book i have ever read.

And even with the maximum amount of twisting of its verses (say you use all of your intelligence to translate it into something good), you can not get anything close to wisdom.

[[
"We revealed to you a Book, which entails
A meditative discourse, to contemplate"]]

Nope you are lying Sir; Dear God of Kuran, you wrote deceptive, tribal words or whatever you could come up and that makes many people live like fools.

[[
"Do you wonder on this discourse,
And laugh but not weep!
]]

Well we do wonder who can be so stupid when talking on behalf of God?? But we feel pity and feel sad but we do not weep because we think that the mind given by nature (original God) is eventually capable of finding much wonderful thoughts, and much more amazing God, who doesn't speak idiotically.

[[
And amuse yourself in vanities."
"Ya hasratan ala ibadi
Man is surely at loss"
]]

Ha Ha:-) You created him at loss?? Don't worry the journey of Men will be more fruitful than yours and we don't need hell and heaven. Anyway we are not competing with you:-) All that is there is part of us and we are part of it even without knowing about all the different worlds. And we don't need to know about your hell/heaven and other worlds, we have much better ideas. Once we die, whoeever gets us should take care of us, in whatever way he feels good. If you get a chance, do whatever you can.

"Men only know but the outer things.
Life of this world is all that they think.
Unmindful of its sure ending.
Only if they would care to reflect
On that which lies within their own selves,
And that which lies in heavens and on earth,
And that which lies between the two.
Only if they would knew!"
"We revealed to you a Book, which entails
A meditative discourse, to contemplate"
"Do you wonder on this discourse,
And laugh but not weep!
And amuse yourself in vanities."
"Ya hasratan ala ibadi
Man is surely at loss"

From Quran.

God delusion,
ke Islam delusion,
ke Pakistan delusion,
ke US delusion.....

delusion settle hua ki nahin????

ho ke riyo hai... kon se delusion main chal rahe ho abhi???

Rahiman delusion hi bhala,
jo apni jeb ka na kutch jaaye
kahat kabir suno by sadho
bas marte dum tak raha jaaye

oopar ki chaar lina kabir aur rahim donon ne milke badi muskil se likho hain..

Re: # 264

masadi,

.... have you looked under your bed lately? .... the guy with the beard and scabies is a taliban and not a member of the us elite .....

So the Americans have sent a message through their suicide bomber in the heart of Islamabad to remove glitches in establishing a large scale base near Islamabad, and to give a clear message to Zardari before his upcoming US trip (Tuesday), isn't it a 'self fulfilling prophecy' of some months back which said that if they Pakistanis didn't follow the US line, including the punctuation and what not that similar attacks like the one that killed BB could follow!:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-fg-mullen19- 2008sep19,0,1310930.story

U.S. military advisors may soon head to Pakistan

The U.S. and Pakistan have cleared remaining obstacles, so the long-delayed team may arrive within weeks, Joint Chiefs Chairman Michael Mullen says.

Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 19, 2008

A long-delayed plan to send dozens of U.S. military advisors to Pakistan to train its army in counterinsurgency could begin in a matter of weeks under a new agreement on a training base, according to the top U.S. military officer.

Washington for months has urged the Pakistani military to accept the training team. Pakistan has resisted, asking for additional weaponry and equipment some U.S. officials believe is best suited for its standoff with regional rival India.

But Navy Adm. Michael G. Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the primary stumbling block had been the fact that Pakistan could not build the training site, near the western town of Peshawar, quickly enough. The two sides have agreed to use an alternative base north of the capital.

"We're still going through some administrative delays, but I do see it happening," Mullen said in an interview en route from Washington to his hometown of Los Angeles, where he plans a series of talks in coming days. "I think it's in the next few weeks."

..... see what people will do on an empty stomach? ... the deluded people have brought their god's war to islamabad and the marriott is no more ........next?

Re: # 261

SR mian,

.... for the record .... i have never insulted anyone who did not deserve to be insulted - this too is in keeping with the tradition of the bedouin prophet, so please give me some credit ..... i will agree that mad masadi has calmed down a little bit and does not hurl his feces at passers by as he sits naked under a tree reading mills and boon ... but if i were you, i would still give him a wide berth ......

.... i like your ideas on reforming the ancient bedouin ritual of fasting to make islam into a more regular religion, but first we have to tackle the five times a day prayer which is the root of all evil ...... you see, this incessant prayer keeps the moslem in a state of constant agitation and results in the barbaric behavior that has been the scourge of mankind - suiciders, homiciders, pillaging, looting, the destruction of somnath and the destruction of the grand temple of mecca ..... if we can restrict praying to once a week it will give the believer sevn days to recover from the trauma ...... this, i think, should be the number one priority ......

......as far as fasting goes, i like the catholic approach of giving up something for a day or two much better than total abstinence - i, for one, am willing to give up the tonic in my gin for a day or two .........

masadi ... congratulations

Masadi sahib

This is just a generic observation, not participating in any discussion because I have barely enough time to read and none to write. However, I did want to express my appreciation that you have, of late, abandoned your unattractive style of hurling personal insults at those who did not agree with you. Now that you mostly stick to your argument and do not abuse everyone in the forum, more people should start taking you seriously. I have also stopped ignoring your messages as I'm sure many others must have too.

Now that your posts are decently written, your arch nemesis, Hamid Murtid, is the one who utters insults while you keep your dignity and do not stoop to his level. You have started following the a good character trait of 'Mo of Mecca' (as the Murtid calls him) ... When people made fun of him and insulted him, he kept his cool and maintained a dignified demeanur. Congratulations and well done.

...SR

PS:

What, BTW, do you say about having 52 fasts during the year; 32 mandatory and 20 optional, once a week, on Friday, with flexibility as to which 32 you choose to keep. We could still have Eid at the end of Ramadan, and Jumma-tul-Vida would still be the same, but it would be for the whole year's worth of fasting instead of all concentrated in one month.

hp mian,

... the reason i quoted homi was because i don't have any idea what he is talking about - not a clue! ..... similarly, i have no idea what masadi is talking about ..... either masadi is as clever or homi bhaba, or they are both as dumb as door knobs ....... i suspect it is the latter ......

#256 Posted by hamidm2

Hamid Khan, thinking that quoting from Homi Bhabha's book "The Location of Culture" would get you off the hook, then you were seriously mistaken.

I don't understand why are you making this simple thing a mystery? What is so hard to figure out? Asadi responding to your post with the Nacirema reference. So the clue is in your own post.
I will help you solve the mystery, if you follow my lead.

You are like Jesus goat right now!