The Sangh Octopussy

Chowk Staff:

Please try to correct format mishap in the article. The last part of the article appears in CAPS; it's not supposed to be so.
Thanks.

Maharana#17:

"Do point out if you know of any religious head of a majority community murdered with brazenness anywhere else in the developed world by suspected minority community and left without any investigation."

I did not know that the Swami's death is not being investigated. Who is opposing the investigation?

"If other organized religions have "tentacles" to carry out social service while spreading the word of God why not RSS."

The RSS or any other organization has every right to preach their religion. I fully support the right of Hindu swamis to preach their message and convert/reconvert tribals to Hinduism. In fact, I think that this competition should be good for Tribals and it would expedite improvement in their health and education.

As for subsidies to Christians and others, this is vote bank politics at its worse. In my opinion, India should be a poster child against democracy in a developing country.

laddu#13:

"It is a far milder version, almost like boy scouts, as compared to our goons."

That list was a copy and paste from Wikipedia. Yes, I know that Wikipedia is not always reliable, that is why I indicated the source. I have not included all those organizations in my article.

bulleya#5:

Your interaction with the Indian muslim proves the failure of the Indian experiment with secularism; if a successful Indian Muslim feels more secure with a Muslim from Pakistan than with his Indian colleagues, it shows that the two nation theory is well and alive in India.

On Kashmir, if the issue is resolved to the satisfaction of Pakistanis or even Kashmiri Muslims, it will not solve the problems of insecurity of Indian Muslims but will make it much worse.

nazarhayatkhan#6:

"It is a far milder version, almost like boy scouts, as compared to our goons."

There is certainly an element of boy scouts in the RSS members, they are the first to offer aid during any calamity. But if I am not mistaken, islamic religious parties were also the first to reach earthquake stricken areas in Kashmir.

Eklavya#4,10:

"You have been fair to all sides."

One tries not to let one's prejudices colour one's analysis. ;)

"You see DM ji is a secular Indian who is suspected of being an RSS sympathizer by many Muslims. Or, he is a RSS sympathizer/member suspected of being secular by many Hindus.'

Both of them could be right; otoh, both of them could be wrong. Is it necessary to put labels on everyone?

pinku#3:

It is futile to ask Christian missionaries to forget about their "mission", they are just following their job description. As long as their activities are within the provisions of India laws, no one should have any objection to what they do. If you have a problem with the law, you should ask the government to change the laws instead of asking law-abiding missionaries to stop propagating their faith.

harimau#2:

I have no doubt that there are underlying economic factors in this area. From what I have read, converts to Christianity have had access to better education and have therefore been able to get a greater share of the reserved quota for ST/SC. Now, why blame Christians for providing better education to the converts? Wouldn't it be better for the Hindu organizations to provide equally good education to those who do not convert so that they have equal access to job opportunities?

harimau#1:

The killing of Swami Lakshmananada has been condemned by everyone from Pope on down. While Bajrang Dal people have accused Christians of plotting his death, the actual responsibility has been claimed by Naxals. I do not know who the actual killers were but this did not justify an open season on all Christians. Since when have the Indians give Bajrang Dal the powers to be police, judge and executioner?

We should also remember that the attacks against Christians in Orissa have been reported since December and did not start with the assassination of the Swami.

Dear Dost Mittar,

It was a nice summary of the RSS and its beginnings. But your article's introductory paragraph put me off as a biased and a typical observation of desi media. Perhaps I have a wrong image of you as an individual who tries to remain objective consciously.
Part of what I wanted to say has been pointed out by NHK and Harimau. So no need wasting time there. But I would wish that the indian media atleast starts talking about investigating the swami's murder and displays the same disgust towards the potential perpetrators (christians in this case) as they outpoured the venom when staines was murdered. Is it possible for the GOI to award his successor some form of an award just like they did for staines wife?
We are the starnegst nation on earth who berates and ignores the native values and people as a pavolivian reaction while deifying the outsiders. Do point out if you know of any religious head of a majority community murdered with brazenness anywhere else in the developed world by suspected minority community and left without any investigation.

If other organized religions have "tentacles" to carry out social service while spreading the word of God why not RSS. I have known from various people that in times of natural disasters and riots RSS has actually done a remarkably good job in helping the affected. Granted that they are deeply ideological (just as the churches and mosques) but due to indic influenece they still are not exclusivists.

The older and established churches in India namely the catholic, syrian orthodox etc are so well assimilated in the indian society with a strong sense of indian identity and native roots that they would consider the acts of evangelicals in orissa or elsewehre as abhorable. Further, as catholic churches are like local franchises, they do not get extraordinary amount of monetary help from outside. We have such a surge of unverified funds from various churches in the world since sonia gandhi came to power that the consequences of that are emerging now. If you consider wahabi influenece and money as problematic, then consider the evangelical or pentacoastal as their ideological brothers. They will not stop at any anything. Last time I was in Thirupati (2 years back), someone handed me a pamphlet with message form christ. Thats not a problem but they should spare the sacred places of other faiths as proselytizing grounds.

Barring the older churches in india, the newer influx of evangelicals creates a similar dichotomy in the indian masses for which the muslims are derided. The evangelicals only look to jerusalem and its old culture as the true source of all values while rejecting anything indian. It has become so outlandish that YSR the CM of AP has introduced pilgrimage subsidy to jerusalem by Xstians of his state. I mean..xstians in the US also don't get subsidy but we the wisest people on earth have so many xstins in power that they can twist the law of the land to pander to their religious sentiments. If it had not been for the BJP, Ajit Jogi (evangelical Ex CM of chhatisgarh) would have used the state machinery to spread his "message". Do you know of any nation where 2.5% population of the country holds so much power?
So if RSS has small tentacles in their own country which does not discriminate with other faiths but merely seeks to uphold the mother india, I think they have as much right as the CM of AP who thinks letting 5% reservation to BC muslims (and later on to xstians as well) and allowing pilgrimage subsidy is a service to the nation. This is happening openly only because these people are aware that the most self hating people are the majority community of india.

While no fan of RSS or BJP, I had to come to their defense due to lack of a proper representation of he other side.

Adios

laddu,

"on what basis do you consider various listed small organizations as part of rss?"

dost is not saying that. He is attributing. To wikipedia website. Words starting with "The Sangh Parivar includes" ... and ending with "Bharatiya Vichara Kendra" are direct cut-and-paste except for some word changed.

There is in this list an org called "Vit Salahkar Parishad". May be Hindus need one such sorely with financial crisis of past months. May be making it a secular will attract Muslims who will then cry foul when advice is given involving any transaction not consistent with Islam. So they made it a Hindu org. Because in India secular means Islamic.

laddu, DM ji does not call these organizations part of RSS.

He calls them part of "sangh parivar," although he use thes term interchangeably with RSS.

From his pov that is sensible because RSS is the most promiment organization that rejects the semitic-Communist view of India and Indian peoples.

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masana, LOL @ at your MATRIX comment. And DM ji, perturbed at being called RSS symphthizer himself, is going to ugplug us all from that virtual reality.

And who flagged masana's post? Guys, at this rate we will continue to live in that virutal reality forever.

surprising that someone has red flagged my question to harimau. what exactly is objectionable there?.

dmji

on what basis do you consider various listed small organizations as part of rss?

nice article.

seems like RSS is like the MATRIX. :-)

Harimau:

The issue is between Dalit Chritians and the Scheduled Tribes. The ST is protesting that the converted Dalits are lying about their conversion and trying to retain the benefits of reservations and quotas. This is the cause.


Do you think reservations for the so called "brain dead SC/ST/OBCs" (your favorite term) are helping in retention of folks within Hinduism ?. Do you think it is helpful now?. :-)