The Sangh Octopussy

Oh, I missed the theoretical rejection of the clergy. In my mind, I see a steady (although non-linear) progression of ideas from Judaism to Christianity to Islam - their perfection.

(non-linear because Christianity of the new testament seems to have absorbed some of eastern feel, which then Islam went back and rejected, and added innovations like Jihad of its own)

pinku#56:

"1. Protection of truth doesn't affect rule of law. So challanging missionaries, their ideologies will always be perfect thing to do."

Agreed, as long as it is done in a peaceful manner.

"2. Killing is not an option, nor should this be done using illiterate people. Mass movement is good but common people shouldn't merely be instigated. Tell people proper reason and then ask them to show unity but not through killings."

As I said confront ideas, or confront people through ideas, not through weapons. For weapons use age old principle, till you find they are aiming at you, don't shoot, unless you are in battle-field."

Agreed again (if I understand you correctly)

"3. Rule of law is protected by government/police or whatever. Don't decide against what you should speak or shouldn't speak based on rule of law. Decide based on truths, ideas, even less on situations."

There is no problem in agreeing with this most of the time, although most societies put some reasonable restrictions on free speech which may cause disturbance to peace and order.


"So Bajrang dal is not, so far, going to create terrorist organizations world-wide to convert people or fight the hindu-war. There is not even a remote possibility, you can not achieve that even if you employ all of your resources in your life time."

Bajrang Dal can only harm India and Indians, it cannot harm anyone outside, except maybe Hindus minorities in places like Bangladesh and Pakistan.

"RSS is not against religions, its scholls like Sarasvati shishu mandirs or Sharasvati bal mandirs do not create talibaani type people. And they enroll many muslims in schools and at all levels. Their ideology is offense against offense, not offense for spreading Hinduism. Even after so many years and with enough money they don't have a propaganda machinery to convert people, they have a machinery only to stop conversion."

I do not have any inside knowledge of what they teach in the RSS-run schools although it would be reasonable to assume that they teach the Sangh ideology. I have already acknowledged in my article that they produce good academic results.

"Most effective thing is to dis-allow proselytization, this will create a huge debate and people from other countries will also get involved, but this debate wil help society. People will get to know more about religions, politics of religions, how governments supports them or manipulate them and lot more."

Go ahead and get your parliament to ban proselytization. Most Muslim countries disallow proselytization activities aimed at their Muslim citizens and missionaries respect that ban.

Re: # 103; eklavya
[[I have been fascinated by a possibility that Islam may be essentially Judaism with two or three critical twists thrown in ]]

you are the first person (apart from myself) who has worked it out sir! ... the whole concept of "the chosen nation" is borrowed!! ... not to mention basic theology itself

Mike, are you a person of Christian descent? Do you know anything at all about Judaism?

I have been fascinated by a possibility that Islam may be essentially Judaism with two or three critical twists thrown in - arab centrism, the role of prophet muhammad, and the concept of jihad, both external and internal. Does that make any sense at all to you?

Also, does Judaism have any means of putting a closure on prophethood, either in time or space?

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DM ji

"I don't know what you are referring to and its relevance."

That's ok.

Eklavya#53:

"What can you tell us about historical allaince between Fascism and Many Islamic organizations, and the ideological basis of that alliance?"

I don't know what you are referring to and its relevance.

DM...
The Karnataka events are all political. Section of BD wanted all the pending cases against them to be withdrawn. Yeddi have not done that so far. So, all these problems. The churches are bearing the brunt. The lone Christian voice for BJP was Dr. H T Sangliana. He had voted for Congress in Parliament and thus is expelled from BJP. Now, he has no voice in BJP and is not able to handle it.....
Anyhow, Christians and Kannadigas are not at loggerhead with each other. I don't see any discontent amongst non-dalit Christians and neither the average citizen is bothered about it. Only the business leaders are disturbed about the image of India in developed country. T V Mohandas Pai and Kiran Muzumder has protested publicly and Yeddi had to get nice thrashing from the Church leadership...Poor Yeddi....Let BD concentrate on islamic terrorists better way. Karnataka is now hub of such activities....

#DM...
Agreed, BD is not supposed to take law and order in their hand...but the people, who are engaged in these events are all locals...BD have not not mobolised cadre's from different parts of India and atacked tribal christians. It is the fight between tribals...If police needs to take action, first they have to identify the people who are engaged in the riots... If small number of police is deployed, how can you identify the culprits and start taking legal action against them?....

Re: # 5
bull...
what a piece!!!!!

When BJP and RSS have become equivalent to terrorist organisations? Indian armed forces are enough for it....

Indian moslems are backward because they are moslems (so as the moslems of UK, France, Germany etc...) by nature and not due to their identity......
Most of the Govt. exams do not keep the name and other identification part of an examinee with answer paper.That part is replaced with serial number. The serial number is then matched with actual role number and name, at the time publication of result. So, answer paper checking, 2 level of scrutiny and entering the marks in the database, is done without any identification. Still, how many moslems are able to qualify for the IIT entrance etc....?

Bull, even before creation of Pakistan, Indians used to dominate in all the fields of education and culture over moslems. Brits were not discriminatory. Even now, indian institutes produces better quality professionals over Pakistani one...

Re: # 92
bull...
Just impose extortion money (like Jejya) on moslems in civilised world. May be 60% (on Income Tax) cess on moslems for sticking to 7th century arab beduinism; many of the moslems will leave arab beduinism.....
A buffalow prefers to stay in stinking water, unless it is forced by the owner....

#92 by bulleya

.....this is something i have found interesting amongst muslims.....they, rarely, if ever change their faith.....i think this is because on three inherent concepts in islam - first is that of egalatarianism; second is the direct contact between man and God (i.e. elimination of clergy); third is the abstract nature of religion.....

No wonder people call you Captain Clueless. People don't change religions (until forced either through inducements, bribes or threats) simply because it is easier to remain within the folds of the religion they were born in. In the case of Muslims, the threat of punishment for apostasy and the social stigma attached to it among the community becomes so internalized within Muslims that even when they are under no pressure to remain Muslim (like when in foreign countries), they don't venture to do it. At best, they become non-practising Muslims.

Not for any of the high-falutin "reasons" you mention.

Re: # 7
Ekal...
So what Eduation department should do? Keep the moslems alien creatures like a typical moslem should be - 7th century beduine clone!!!! Shouting in arabic in midnight to create trouble for others...not participating in local events (major state cultural events) and then allahooooooooo kabooms, in the name of isolation and discrimination.....

Re: # 91
majumder...
contd...
....and the message of peace and love is destoring tribal unity into pieces and creating all sorts of trouble...It is the tribals killing his fellow tribals just that couple of them were bribed to defame their culture....

hari...
well written...these missionaries don't preach educated people in cities about Jesus and message of love...most of christian convents ( ST. xxx schools and colleges) are populated with upper caste students...not a single nun/father will preach the students or their parents to convert....

All this nuicense is due to the ineffective development plan of GoI and state Govts.....The tribals don't know the right they enjoy under Indian Constitution or they are not in a position to exploit that....

FM Romair,

muslims.....they, rarely, if ever change their faith.....

Kaal bhai has often marvelled about this.

Regards

Re: # 88
Akcheema...
Ya man...Pakistan is very liberal society...with blashphemy laws, hudood laws and burning Danish and US flag for cartoon....

....there is, indeed, a hypocrisy-centric contradiction in any muslim supporting change of faith of other religions, while, simultaneously, not allowing muslims to change faiths.....

....having said that, i have seen hardly any desire amongst muslims to change their faith.....they could do so quite easily in countries they have migrated to - canada, usa etc. - yet they don't......

.....this is something i have found interesting amongst muslims.....they, rarely, if ever change their faith.....i think this is because on three inherent concepts in islam - first is that of egalatarianism; second is the direct contact between man and God (i.e. elimination of clergy); third is the abstract nature of religion.....

every muslim can read the quran and interpret it for him/herself, without any pressure.....granted there will always be the urstrulies of the world, who will rely on state power to enforce the majority interpretation of islam onto everyone.......however, that act itself is un-islamic.....

this is why even hamidm mian has not switched religions.....

Cheema sahib, Cool,

Actually Jesus's message of love and peace is perhaps even more relevant in places like Bajaur and Waziristan. All the missionaries in places like Kandhmal shud be encouraged to open a branch there.

Regards