The Sangh Octopussy

Re: # 73

"This is happening for last many thousand years, the number of people who understand this is too much compared to what it was 1000 years ago. People who believe in religious idea of God will be in minority very soon as per actual numbers but their influence will remain in majority for a few more decades"

Lets say missionaries are bribing the tribal into changing there 'religion'
I believe its NOT about religion .You have hindu marrying Chistians Rajiv Bedi arun to hurley u understand what i am, talking about .Yes you pretend to be aethist but remain in totem pole of Caste .you hate the tribals lowe caste bhangis wih whom udont want to deal You want to RULE overthem and how dare the do what you dont approve of

Still these tribals are consided junglee

you never see hindu introducing to white visitors to India as 'normal' hindu Lol

The other day i complained how shibo soren of Jharkand was getting away wityh murder Every body on Chowk jumped 'but he is Tribalas 'if he is not reg hindu a non accountble .

DO U REALLY LOVE tribal

Search u r heart .

You dont hate christians but why they are non obedient to you .

#72 Posted by Dinaric on
I do not care about how many Hindus you hang for Godhra and whether it includes Modi or not. If for 2000 muslim you wil be happy after hanging 4000 hindus then do it. If you think it will help muslims in India or Arabia then you should work for it. And I do not care what BJP will have to explain or what Gujjus think about Modi or BJP.

What I care for is to use "something" as an excuse to support lies and misdeeds. So I am not in favour of propaganda for conversion, which is called proselytization. I am not in favour of so called dalits converting to either Islam or Christianity.

They can convert to Budhdhism, Sikhkhism, Jainism or whaver if they have identity problem.

And i don't accept lies from you or from bishops that you can not control hearts, which heart?? the one these missionaries buy and sell???? And who is "you"?? Me??? That is just a few thousand ruppes not even dollars. You will see many people who will invest that much money to fight for that "control" of "that kind of heart". Those guys are being sold very cheap.

You will see how these hearts and minds will be controlled very soon. You will see in your life time how hearts and minds will be controlled all over world.. Pope will beg people not to criticize Christianity not threaten them?? Same for Islam, your Mullahs will beg people not to criticize Islam.

All this depends on freeing God from religion. You just need to make people realize that God doesn't need religions and religions fool you in selling their fake Gods, while God is amaingly wonderful compared to idiotic thoughts given by these religions.

This is happening for last many thousand years, the number of people who understand this is too much compared to what it was 1000 years ago. People who believe in religious idea of God will be in minority very soon as per actual numbers but their influence will remain in majority for a few more decades.

And this is harrassment???

Living on farmland, occupying it and having criminal cases but still living freely, this all is harrassment. Or if you are poor then other people are responsible for it???


No bhai it is just good governence

.....................................................
When will the BJP learn that it cannot push this issue under the carpet forever. News channels are off air in parts of Gujarat. Thats their solution to shoot the messenger. Sooner or later it has to answer the tough questions regarding Gujarat riots and its overall communal philosophy.

We have video confessions now, which are fully admissible in court of law. What else do they need to put the men exposed in the operation behind bars"


JUST ON THAT YOU JUSTIFY HARASSMERNT WHEN FEAR OF IRE EVEN CONGRESS IS AFRAID TO GO BY TEHLKA EXPOSE


Do u believe any thing abut gujrati hindu or only Garba and Amisha Patel

#70 Posted by pinku on

"No other community, except muslims mis-use religion so much. Only muslims are capable of asking things that they themselves can not even dream to give."

So a muslim poor by his own ways will tell that it is government's responsibility to make him wealthy, same for uneducated ones, same for land/house. If their community of 10,000 living somewhere has say 10 top-level land grabbers, 15 top goons (with ak-47s), 100 small support goons (side heroes). And you say they are problem, they will say that majority is peaceful and rest who are not are because they are being persecuted???

And Police, well they can not touch them because of politicians first and second because they know they won't be able to prosecute successfully??

“Muslims figure nowhere in his model of development. You won’t find even the basic infrastructure and necessities like water, transport, road, electricity in the Muslim areas,� he said.


So first muslims will find a place to occupy, then they will do some simple crimes to make their ends meet, like thefts or some occasional murder, then they should be relased not prosecuted as they are minority.... then they should be provided houses, infrastructure at lands they have grabbed.....


and by the time you do all this, the new batch from bangladesh with ultra poor muslims will be ready....



Government needs to behave as government and police needs to behave as police to make people live like humans, they can't allow fools to rule themselves. Else soon there will be only anarchy (if it is not enough already) and only mafia and religious fanatics will rule people.

Re #67 Posted by Dinaric on

[[
Police have been searching old cases registered against any person of the community and asking them to furnish bail papers. The police targeted 33 people against whom some petty crime or a scuffle with the neighbors was registered,� said Shabnam Hashmi.
]]

And this is harrassment???

Living on farmland, occupying it and having criminal cases but still living freely, this all is harrassment. Or if you are poor then other people are responsible for it???

Ask them to convert to Christianity and ask your Christian brothers to help them.

It will be good if Indian government allow conversion between Islam and Christianity, the two religions hungry for people and land.

#65 Posted by Dinaric on
Who asked you to check with USA about what India should do???

Do you think Hindus should check with Pope to decide what they should do??

Does you pope checks with Hindus about his rules/ideas???

So the machinery of Christianity that goes and buy people need to be stopped. Don't let them go anywhere in search of converts. They have whole of Africa or may be they can go to Arab countries??? Ask them to help there, in India if they want to help anyone it shouldn't be in exchange of religion... Tell those Christian missionaries that they already have 2.2 bilion people and that 2/3rd of ultra poors leave outside of India. Further, they have better machinery outside of India then in India, so they will be able to help better there.

=====

Who has made Hindu owenr of India????

Hindu made himself owner of India, they way Arabs own Arab land, your Pope owns Vatican and your favourite Christian brothers wiped out Mayans and Red indians from South, North america and became owners of those land.


What else do you want to know???

So ask your Christian brothers to stop selling Christianity in India, ask them to help those who are already Christians world-wide. These tribal Hindus are not coming to kill their Christian brothers in US/UK or elsewhere. Ask them to help poors in afric first, lot many people to convert there??

“Convert to Hindu religion or face eviction from your land�


Submitted by Tarique on Thu, 09/18/2008 - 11:42. Indian Muslim
By Md. Ali, TwoCircles.net,

Ahmadabad: On September 17, some Forest officers and police descended on the village of Nandapeda near Ahwa in the Dangs district in Gujarat. They pulled out the doors and the windows and pulled out the timbers and wood from the roof of the huts of the villagers.

What is the crime of Nandapeda, the only Muslim-dominated village in the Dangs district? The forest department said it was illegal wood and they must recover it.

The Muslims of the village, however, said that the local administration has been pressurizing them to convert to Adivasi religion or else face their ire. They have threatened them that otherwise their lands won’t be regularized and they can be thrown out of their lands.

“The government has been pressurizing the Muslims to convert to the Hindu religion or face eviction from their land� says noted social activist Shabnam Hashmi.

Talking to TwoCircles.net journalist Abdul Hafeez Lakhani said, “It has been since last few months that they were being pressurized by the officials to change their faiths. When some of them went to complain to the police they didn’t file their complaints.�

Most of the villagers are very poor. They are farm labourers.

Because of their horrible experience during the 2002 Gujarat pogrom 125 Muslims of the village fled to Vadodra, the neighbouring district. It was only when some high level officers in Vadodra assured them of their safety that half of them returned to the village.

Against the conversion or eviction order a petition was filed in the Gujarat High Court. It was filed by some Muslims in Vadodra on behalf of the Nandapeda villagers.

In the petition filed they have alleged that on June 13 a senior government officer called a meeting in which they were instructed to convert to the Adivasi religion if at all they want the regularization of their lands otherwise they better evacuate the lands which they have been trying to regularize.

“After this meeting police and forest officers had been harassing them.

Police have been searching old cases registered against any person of the community and asking them to furnish bail papers. The police targeted 33 people against whom some petty crime or a scuffle with the neighbors was registered,� said Shabnam Hashmi.

The families have been living in the village for over 100 years.

Claiming that repeated representation before authorities for regularization of their land has been in vain, petitioners requested the court to restrain the government from pressurizing them to convert from their religion. Justice Jayant Panchal had in July sought explanation in this regard from the secretary in-charge, district collector and the village sarpanch.

After hearing all parties, Justice Anant Dave admitted the case on

September 11, 2008 and ordered to maintain status quo on the disputed land.

“On the next day the police captured approximately 80 villagers for transporting cattle into Maharashtra and also apprehended some villagers who were going on motorcycles using the reason of cow slaughter, though there were no cattle in the tempo� said Hashmi.

The villagers gathered. There was a clash between the villagers and the police. People were beaten on both the sides. One policeman was also beaten up. Police then opened fire and a number of villagers got bullet injuries. They were taken to Ahwa civil hospitals. The relatives were not allowed to meet them. Police apprehended eight villagers for beating a policeman and though a local lawyer went for their bail, it was not given.

Next day the police came and in the name of combing operation attacked and ransacked the village. Villagers were beaten up brutally including women and children. All men fled to the jungles. The police not only took away all the goods but before going they poured kerosene into the eatable good so that they could not eat anything too.

VHP proposed a rally on 15th. After a lot of pressure the VHP rally was stopped but they declared a Bandh on 16th.

The VHP has reportedly given a deadline to the collector to get the village vacated.

What happened yesterday to the villagers seems to be a step towards fulfilling the VHP demand.

Lakhani said that it is the Hindutva groups like Bajrang Dal which are at the root of the issue.

The villagers are still fearful. They don’t sleep in the nights as they fear attack from the Hindutva groups, said Lakhani.

“The villagers need urgent help and intervention. I have been personally informing various state politicians and centre about the developments� said Hashmi in a statement also sent to the National Human Rights Commission, National Commission for Minorities, political leaders and media organizations.

Asked about Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s idea of model development, Lakhani said that Modi's idea of development is an exclusive domain of the majority community.

“Muslims figure nowhere in his model of development. You won’t find even the basic infrastructure and necessities like water, transport, road, electricity in the Muslim areas,� he said.

Re: # 64
When a minority acts criminally just as rss Rss commits criminal activity They both are criminals except the RSS in inflicts in thousands .

When a minority commits crime he has 850 millions essentialy chasing condenmimg him when Rss commits crime EVEN congress feels politically hard to criticise b/c Hindu votes are muck larger and Hindus by now has demonstrated as in Babri & Gujrst

right or Wrong hindus dont like to hear any thing bad about themselves even lawlesnes

and naturally have physical as well as voting POWER to shut the hell up EVERYBODY .Lberals communist world

Let me ask you is there any ban by USA if a christian becomes ISKON I am saying that because that is the closest u can become to Hindu religion conversion There is no conversion into Hinduism although hindu themselves are justt as ignorant what and how they are different .

For other religion there mass scale conversion in USA .India can do within ts borders but how do you police MIND and heart what it believes& likes .Its riridiculous to force anything and expect it to last forever

Another thing India boast it self in the world as having sikh as P.M. sonia s chief of Congresses richest as Muslim Premix Popularar most actor Sahrukh Muslim.So India is liberal secular all of a sudden u become insecure and intolerant of Non Hindu ?

Or there is number fixed by u How Many Christians How many Christians there be

Muslims and Tibals are as much anciennt India so called Indic This is tte term to JUSTIFY killing muslims and Christians .Religious conflict world can relate to But world does not know that Hindus are out to JUSTIFY there kiling b/c Who arbitrarily become owner rof India .Who determined that after 1800 India is totally Hindu When is this Indic era start It never was there even 20 years ago

If Muslims we there 1000 years ago may be they were Hindus but converted Who are the Hindus to burn them for adopting religion Do USA burn Gora becoming Bud hist Yo gist ISKON ?

I absolutely dumbfounded who has made Hindu OWNER of India ,Religion and CITIZEN ship never is compulsorily Same . America USA Australia gives citizen ship to FOREIGN born with no historical lineage with just 8 years residence who are these RSS VHP Bajrang dal to be masters.

Except by being lawless goonda Well if there is no law then there is no law in india .
Tribal don't have arguments against them being imported
but dont be surprised the lying Malhotra of Yejo mahal Raja Ram of AIT.. Shourie of kOran can write book which IAs IPSA Ifs candidate Will Read only and act


U can have opinons .Not threats againt Liberals Communist Non hindus tribals Sikhs Jains and yes Buddhist .If every thuing within india is Indic Bharti Legitimate Equal Who are you to determine there rigts.Majority does not have to use foolish tems like Indic Muslims Christians just burn them after all 85 houses of Minorities will burn and even if they bravely fight they cant burn more than 15

Krishna,

I think its admirable that some missionaries do humanitarian acts of helping poorer people. Mother Teresa is revered in India. But certainly a question arises why hindus, jains etc when copy this model of charitable acts in remote places, are usually eliminated and labeled as fanatics. Two years back some RSS workers were shot dead in nagaland. No news about that. Similarly the bomb throwing in Krishna temple in Manipur was hardly covered.

I thought that the positive influenec of christianty and islam (by considering equality of all humans regardless of castes) was well assimilated by BJP. More than the congress and liberal folks they had the courage to actually bring people from all walks into their fold. If they used the blanket of hinduism with that, I think it was a reform over the previous traditions. No congress or liberal parties actually inititated such involvement of lower caste strata of the society the way BJP managed it.
So from the POV of Hindus wheteher you do it or not you are doomed.
Lastly, as you correctly pointed out the problem of lawlessness and the inability of the administration to ever carry out prosecutions of such perpetrators of violence is always suspect. Whether it was punjab, Godhra, Gujarat etc. But it stinks to high heaven when you note that Staines' murderers were quickly caught, tried and punished but the same action is found wanting in the Swami's case.

Adios

Re #62 Posted by krishna_abcd on
It won't anytime soon and you are right NDTV or media or even our convent educated intellectuals have little intellect or desire to deal with things honestly. They are happy to be parasites and be able to make some money out of these incidents.

dost-mittar,

There can be no doubt that no decent person can give any excuses, ifs, ors and buts about any situation where ANYONE is murdered or harmed. Nobody, NOBODY has the right to raise a finger on ANYBODY else, REGARDLESS of the provocations. For redress of grievances, there is the legal system.

Which is why I had said that each and every low-class scoundrel that killed anyone during the Gujrat riots should be hung. And if Modi is found to be guilty of aiding and betting that, BY A COURT OF LAW, then he should be the first person to be strung up. And each and every scoundrel, VHP, RSS or otherwise, who is complicit in the recent Christian murders should be dealt with in EXACTLY the same way.

So then, what is the solution to this particular problem that this article is about? I believe that the solution has to be twofold, for a lasting solution. One, the police and the government have to escalate their efforts to bring these people to justice, AND MADE AN EXAMPLE OF. This would send a strong message to other potential criminals what the consequences for their actions would be. Second, for a lasting peace, the government, and ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA (which is infested by left-wing invertebrates like Kamath, parthaab etc.) needs to focus on how these Abrahamic religions take advantage of people's poverty and other misfortunes to try and buy their souls.

Human beings are not that stupid. If someone genuinely has a change of heart and decides to change his faith, people respect that - especially in India. But the systematic and scientific way in which the Church uses its money and power to buy human souls to gain an advantage in their stupid and inexorable numbers game is at the root of much of the evil that exists in the world today.

Does this mean that the NDTVs of this world are going to focus on these issues - how the "converted" gain monetary and other advantages over their close kin who have not "converted", and who are struggling to feed their children? Are they going to highlight this diabolical scheme of cleverly and expertly manipulating helpless and destitute people to try and buy their souls? Nope. Not going to happen. The Sonia-led UPA government hands out too many awards every year to the Barkha Dutts of this world for them to do any such thing.

The depravity and the violence will unfortunately not end any time soon.

#59 Posted by Eklavya on
where do those liberals live:-), give me their address:-)

more of it

i said
[["that state won't work for Islam, it doesn't care if you are muslims or not".]]

In Pakistan almost al of them are muslims, so secularism will only be pretense, but still you can not enforce it that easily????? Why?????

Well, that is what Islam is and its values are.. and that is where conflict comes from... Only option is to dilute religions significantly... Hit people with words that "God doesn't need religion" and not with bullets... do it with hig-profile people first because they are the people who manipulate rest....

If that needs getting rid of pseudo seculars or liberals as Eklavya says, who feel that fingering religion is not that good while you can dinger everything else, then first confront them with these ideas....

pinku bhai, happiness and satisfaction are the active creations and responses of one's own mind. They are our responses to the world around us, and with sufficient institutional manoeuvering, we can all be taught to respond completely differently to the same external reality.

Would you be 'happy and satisfied' in Pakistan? Probably not, but someone we can all admire - ijaz gul - is relative happier and more satisfied in Pakistan than any liberal Hindu or Muslim is in India.

You CAN'T and MUST NEVER take responsibility for how others "feel." You can be easily taken to the cleaners by intelligent people. If liberal Hindus insist on making everyone happy, loved, wanted, and satisfied, they must do so on their own, completely on their own money and time.

We don't disrespect the state. But there is no need to respect, love, satisfy, want everyone and everything. Let liberal Hindus shoulder that burnden if they are very fond of burdens.

Later.