Fathers and Daughters

Thanks Morni, for you and for bali:

Shama hai koyee Musafir nahin


Shama hai koyee musafir nahin

jitnei badal chahai jala do
jultai badal thundee shamon mei pighalein toh...

it is the cool of the evening
that will keep us strong

jitnee jaan azaab mei daaltei ho tum
haar jaanei do aik aur lehr ko

sub sahein gay hum...
jaan leitei ho, toh leitei raho
khuun behta hai, toh behnei do

aaj moseequi kee baat kiyei bina
ghar laut kei nahin jayei gay hum

Shama hai koyee musafir nahin

awaaz bulund hai, haarai nahin abhee hum....

it will be the fire of the soul
that will keep us strong

shama ko jultee bujhtee rehnei do
shama hai, koyee musafar nahin



Stay this wayyy


معرآج

A word is dead when is said, some say, i say it just begins to live that day,...Fathers and Daughters ,is just begins to live.Morni.

lol..what on earth is OTW, ok I looked it up "the MeiraJ-Masadi Debate" lol...every time I think I'm about leaving, you people come up with things like this...haha

معرآج

MeiraJ08
There is a thread dedicated to Fathers and Daughters on OTW.

#180 -- there is a time and place to speak about everything. Sometimes we want to not speak about things, thats cool as well. A mystery retains far more value in any relation, than by stating it as scientific facts.

I've not read Sons & Lovers yet, but I remembered the title, and in some ways it triggered this title. There is very little talk about this -- its beauty, its breath, its sensitivity.

You can find the best friend, he will read 500 poems and respond to each and every one.

معرآج

Re: # 183

... and vice versa

Re: # 178; madani sahib

what I meant was every masadi has his meiraj! .... sooner or later ... see, nature is well-balanced

btw sir .... a few wonderful and enlightening posts to read ... as always!

I may suggest you to read a beautiful novel, a touching novel by D H lawrence ( kind of self biography ) titled Sons and lovers. The prose is flowing and the sexual dynamics of yong man and mature woman. THat work elevates him as well as his sex guilt commplex and humanity. It is moving novel and there is no hot stuff. A last classical english novelist crossing and abandoning Victorian hypocracy once for all.
Good day.

One need to appreciate the shock value of Freud as it was accepted as all started with "original sex" between Adam and Eve... that is start of all.He had courage to say not to be feeling guilty about sexual activity. They were brain washed for thousands of years about "original sin".

Re: # 179 I will let my friend Mr. Masadi to talk for himself.
Now Freud had correctly observed the importance of "sex" in our life. It is my feeling as he wanted to stress those aspects so he was dramatic purposely and his points were made. He had to be dramatic as society was very puritan and controlled by guilt of Old testament which is sex oppressive and denying sexuality. The sex fear/sin had made Jews/ christians/ Muslims paranoid and still extreme oppressive in arab lands and denying sex content in society. That neurosis can be seen in behaviour by sexual pression and some times leading sex starvation and universal sex obsession.
This students( of freud) were much more less dramatic. Specially Mr. Adler in his writings.I can put Freud was like christ then adler and jung were like st. Paul who carried his message. To be first messenger he has to be dramatic and Freud was for sure.
Your article was very interesting and thanks for taking efforts to prsent it.
Good day.

#172 Ana, its hilarious. So of course it makes it 'fun' -- there you go, repeating what I just said, a second ago. Again.

: ) : )

#178, Very interesting Ahmed Madani Sahib, I really don't know what Masadi has been trying to get at, he posted at least 16 comments saying "Freud"..and yet not able to say one word beyond it.

It is true that I have learnt a great deal about this particular relation, Father and Daughter as friends -- from some of my European friends, fathers are far more aware of their daughters as 'women' as far as I could tell.

My father, always wanted me to be a warrior, and you all can pretty much see the results. lol...I grew up with mental stamina, usually reserved for the men. :-) In philosophy classes, I could usually argue with all the boys who never took arguments personally [it can kill an argument] but still believed in the argument itself.

At the end of our discussions, we were always able to say: "hey you raised some good points/how did you think of that!! " etc so as to sharpen our minds, as the goal was what rose out of the dialogue version debate: thesis, antithesis: synthesis.

These are all questions we must raise for our society, and dialogues we should be able to maintain, without people losing track of everything, we must be able to stay civil, and yet be able to argue, to exist, to fight for what we believe in, and yet see the other's point of view.

You just did all of that, very impressive. Masadi could learn from you. So could we all.

Freud, also talks of the "primal horde" which is an interesting idea, this is the 'killing of the father' that occurs in the men. I find this fascinating. His oedipal-complex theory is also men-based. The woman serving the pivotal role ofcourse, what story ever did not? :-)

I personally love Freud's work on "Melancholia" - that paper read in parts to me like poetry. Not that I'd follow it like the Bible or anything, but still it had some very, very good points. One, differentiating "Mourning" from "Melancholia."

Ever thought of Society -- as a whole -- suffering from a disease? What would our society be suffering from, in psychological terms? I have some ideas on this. There's so much that can be made simple.

Again, I wrote "Fathers & Daughters" because it is relevant.

Even, if it helps bring up "Freud" -- before a psychiatrist does that, why not know it yourself? Define life at your own terms, so no Masadis now or never can as much as harm you for a moment?

It is not about mild irritations, its about facing society, with a calm that nothing can shatter.

My father has brought me much strength in this regard, and I often have wanted to share it with my friends -- those who never knew strength like that.



معرآج

Re: # 162 Dr. Sahib I agree with you. But It may be different in my mind than yours.Can you elaborate kindly.Father and daughter relationship quite different than son or wife as women are more complex / nonlinear. General women are very complex as even women have hard time understanding each other.( Men are easy to read they are transparent)
We are all sexual ( provided we are alive) but with daughters we have sex difference as we have affection than sex. That becomes complex in sense fathers have great interest in daughters and they worry far more for them. That is also a emotion and you can say is sexual sublimation and that occurs with time even in couple's life as they age and they are more affectionate as time passes.Almost all fathers have no erotic feeling towards them but of affection and care. There is more appreciation of daughters of their fathers as time passes. Women are lover for very short time but they are all time nurturers and care givers. I tell it from my experience and there is no competitive attitude between them as sons. THat can be seen from - all sons are compared to fathers but not with daughters are not compared or measured against fathers. I observed even in animal Kingdom. I had male cat recently passed away and My other cat with me is his daughter. I observed behavior of both and there was no incest ( which I was afraid off). Old cat some times use to go on wandering for few days.When he returned he use to come stand opposite his daughter and she will get up and greet him,he will lick her 3 to 4 times on head to show his affection and then he will go to sleep. As in sex most important organ is brain ( as per Per Vatsyana/ author of Kamsutra) conciously we have subtle differentiation and is amazing. That relationship is complex in Arab societies for varipous reasons ( basically lack of sex content in social life and sexual repression of women). Most arab tribals are at loss to deal with daughters and to avoid problems they just shun each other. This may be due to sense of guilt as Messaenger of god (PBUH) married his step daughter but that was different as god directed.THey may be afraid of daughters sexuality ? While european societies daughter sexuality is taken for granted by father and so automatic sublimation to affection. Obviously there factor of survival and biological subflow in affection ( your favourite book of Darwin).
There are more complex aspects but no place to go to it.
I got curious about your comment, was wondering what aspect was predominant in your mind. Speculation is normally wrong.
Good Day.

Order Order!
Lets put back on the right perspective. See this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJgf6WTDEGo&feature=related

Mr Masadi: It is always such a relief to see that I am not the only one on chowk who does not come up to your standards.

Now, take a hike, and have a nice day.

Meira writes "oh come on man, have the guts and speak your mind, and show us all the filth that you are..."

I wont oblige you but you certainly have shown us what kind of "filth" you are by your desire to see in black and white what Freud said even though most people with a high school education know what it is. It is similar "filth" to what you have produced which is little different to crayon scratch that kids do, the only difference is that unlike kids you're claiming Picasso for it! Go figure, that is why Pakistan is in the garbage dump these days, because of people and youth like you.

Have a nice day,

TNI Masadi