Rape Survivor Families Struggle Against Odds

Re: # 40



I am not living in the west now, madani. So let us not fool ourselves by fantasies and myths. If you do not know about the abuse of anti-male Indian laws please read up 498a.org -before it is too late.

The fact remains that there are hundreds, possibly thousands of innocents languishing in jails for the simple reason that no one will believe them - BECAUSE THEY ARE MALES.

Re: # 42

You must read the STUDY which confirms this ( message number 18 )

http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFalse.html

I am afraid it confirms our worst fears - that women DO lie maliciously to get innocent males into jail. And the quoted figure is (gulp) 41%! NOT accusations, mind you, but false CONVICTIONS!

Do YOU have any study done by money rich feminists?

Having said all that, I'm sure some people with all kinds of charges who have spent time in jail when they shouldn't have, and that should never happen to anyone, but to suggest that there are 1000s is ridiculous.

Why is that women do not speak up for men, and neither do men? Females do not have a sense of neutrality when it comes to MEN being in jail, falsely convicted. Let us be fair to ALL, and not be gender casteist.

And how do you know they were falsely convicted? Jails are full of people who say there are innocent, men and women. I have not met one person who was jailed and said he or she did what he or she was accused of doing. I have an idea of how hard it is to convict a person of rape in Indian courts. Most judges will not act unless there is a witness (so much for our claims of being better than countries where 4 witnesses are needed), unless the victim actively fought back (bad luck if she was drugged), and frequently, unless the victim is a virgin. The attitude is still that no real harm has been done unless the victim is a virgin. Woe betide the victim if she was unmarried and not a virgin, the judge and defence lawyer will make out that she is some kind of Jezebel who "asked for it".


Can we agree on that they are in jail, ONLY because society believed the womans false claim over the man? Is this phenomemon not nauseating enough for some here? Why do we always wait for it to happen to US before we wake up?

No, if it's a question of one person's word over the other, with no other evidence, they do not go to jail.

You haven't told chowkies what you think of Scarlet Keeling, you had said the 25 year old Goan man who had sex with a 15 year old(with her consent, which does not stand, with a 15 year old, both in the UK and India, it is defined as statutory rape) should not be blamed. Can you deny that your general attitude is "women are wanton and 'characterless' and men need to be saved from them"?

Re: # 37 Parth Sahib..... If as you say there are thousands of men in jail that is sad.
I think we are argueing about different things.
If I am correct you are in west, this problem must be in west( america , usa, uk , canada etc) and this does not exist here may be it may be in some city centers or few pockets in India or leading NGO type women who some times look towards men as steping stone to higher status. And this type ladies have status and they do job just for status,they need no money.

Now I have seen some pakistanis who married white women and they left with their children and women went of finding other man and he was left with all responsibilities.One poor Pakistani man seperated from his wife , the wife got new baby from white man and california court aggreed it is not his aby but he has to pay child support. But women even docile pakistani women go to usa go and get winds from there and change and deceive men. One pakistani couple from Karachi divorced husband and had his house given to her as she got custody of Child and he lives in rented place. From owner to room renter, his life is finished and he is economically finished. Now if nice well bred educated women behave like this those white women must be terrible as marriage is just contract and there is no sancity of marriage left. This strange place, mean this world. I tell men and women marriage is business so try to get best or better than you deserve but after it is family and love.
While new people consider initially love and over estimate color and looks and after marriage it becomes business and to solve business problems of marriage end p in courts. Wrong order. Men should be careful , marriae is dangerous game and should be avoided but is necessarily gamble. Old bujurgs have correctly said marrying for man is good,if wife is cow good looking and loving he becomes happy man but if she is like angry buffollow then he becomes Philosopher. Either way better than loney. Unfortunately men are romantic fools by nature and they watch stupid movies instead they should study nature of women. Now people , young people in west spends more time studying brands of car than woman he is going to marry. They take 6 months to buy car but marry wife in two days.
Nature of second/ weak sex is different.They are smart and watcing all time. It is sad but women are too calculating like baniyas. As they nurture children and have great responsibilities than men. I am consulted/ talked to many women including daughter and when they tell you why they marry even ugly toads you realiaze the thinking power of women.Women always think of children as it is destiny, they do not like but nature is stronger and leads them that way.
Men do not think about children its after effect or necessary evil. Any way women look for man who will protect her and her children, if she dies will take care of children,( there is kind of naked and ugly Darwanian attitude and under current) in old age love her and take care of her as they value growing old in love.
Now their nature is strange for sure. Most women do not care if they mis one target, once i told young woman I feel sorry she did not marry one man. She laughed and said do not worry if you miss one bus, ten more busses are coming. That is called maturity of women and foolish men go on crying and even write little lines , sensetive type ,poets etc.
In general if some body decives one should be careful. But stupidity of men about is love is beyond limits to say the list. So there is no foolproof method to avoid traps and get sad. One way is to study the future mother in law and women should study father in laws , they tell future how it is going to look.
I support for some organization like protective house for men, when they can get refuge and consuling even here. Here lso there are women who even beat physically and verbal torture is normal. This houses arerequired as men can not compalin to police about this matter as they will feel something wrong with man and neglect.
ParthaSahib has point also.
Good Night to all.

Re: # 38

"..nb didn't mean it like that at all .."

If she did not, she might have said it.

Re: # 37; parthaab bhai

nb didn't mean it like that at all and I don't think she is a gender casteist (whatever that is) .... on several points I agree with your point of view myself; only I feel in the Indian subcontinent there are many things that can be done better for women

I also agree that there is a "pseudo-westernised" subset that takes advantage of the law ... which is clearly there to protect those who are genuinely suppressed

Re: # 31

nb,

Why is that women do not speak up for men, and neither do men? Females do not have a sense of neutrality when it comes to MEN being in jail, falsely convicted. Let us be fair to ALL, and not be gender casteist.

Re: # 32

Madani,

True, but the fact remains that there are hundreds, possibly thousands of innocents languishing in jails for the simple reason that no one will believe them - BECAUSE THEY ARE MALES.

Can we agree on that they are in jail, ONLY because society believed the womans false claim over the man? Is this phenomemon not nauseating enough for some here? Why do we always wait for it to happen to US before we wake up?

Re: # 34; madani sahib

on that issue we are in complete agreement sir.

Re: # 33 You are right and need balancing in every matter. The urban women on Desi/Continents have some sociatal and recourses to protection.But in Rural areas its Jungle.

I do not now what is in west. There is good possibility of misuse. I hope our women will become more aggressive for rights and western women come down from aggression to assertiveness. I have heard and read about cruel treatment inflicted on men as there is propensity to help the weaker sex. This is all my speculations. I do not know. If you travell beyond karachi urban area things change for worst very dramatically. I have seen by eyes deplorable conditions of women and think I m fortunate to be in Karachi and not woman in Rural Sindh.One of great Urdu giant (Premchand) said famously about plight of women in subcontinent." Woman ,your story is breast full of milk and eyes full of sorrowful teas".Not much has changed in Rural Sindh.

Re: # 32; madani sahib and nb

I see where both of you are coming from .... if you read my previous post, you'd realise I am speaking of a "balance" that has been lost in this debate

I know of several women who manipulate the system (my brother was, until recently, a civil servant working for the Child Support Agency in England) and they would do anything to have a unilateral say especially when children are involved. Often the father is completely taken out of the equation .... all the woman has to do is "cry" violence ... the onus to disprove the allegations is upon the man .... many come from the working class and can't afford long court proceedings etc .... so the women get their way! .... hence the increasingly "fatherless" generation who have no male role models in their lives .... then all the woman has to do is feed the child the misinformation that "he walked out on us"! ... the child never gets to hear the other side of the story.

It is all very well to speak of these crimes in the Indian subcontinental context and feel sorry for the victims (who indeed are genuine for the most part) .... like I said, my theory applies to the "pseudo-westernised" in that part of the world ... it is the same as in the name of "political correctness" some governments bend over backwards to appease their minorities! .... All I am advocating is a "balanced" approach, that's all

Re: # 28 Yes Partha has point, a woman can accuse and man can be in trouble. But normally it is not the way. Chances are more
Woman has been troubled. In statistics we teach theories based on equal outcomes. Here one side is more unevenly loaded. And it is unevenly weighted against women. The women are losers always ( mostly) in these contests irrespective of outcome. As we know law of god is against women at least 4 times in terms of witness. Even to accuse is ton of burden on woman , old , poor is even harder. Even family members will not like, they may acquiesce to help woman to prosecute very reluctantly. Now if woman is in tribal or bad lands even mighty Allah can not help.As duel laws exist here ( one is man made and other is god given) woman is at loss and god's laws are deadly against her. Most women wisely will like to forget for pragmatic reasons. Also proceeding in this matter human right wallahs and women groups can get justice but women chance are destroyed ( presently any single woman can be accused of immoral acts and is fair game , even kidnapped. The women need father when child and need husband and son/daughter when old is true as society is brute and women at any stage are fair game ) a young women getting married chaces go to zero , woman can be abandoned by family for families honor and we have sure double standards imbibed in men being adulterous of having many affairs as manly and women have less freedom than cows and many case less economic value. Many times women are treated as value exchangeable commodity to pay debts , get relief from crime. At least in Pakistan only deranged woman will accuse such things.


In west may be different as laws are made by man and not by God . The dynamics may be different. I can not say any thing, I do not know social dynamics but empirically in west Women are given custody of child indicates preference to woman as child raiser. This is advantage as not too far ago even there women were not allowed to vote. My feeling some women may be trouble makers but most must be suffering . I guess woman can punish man by not working as she will get alimony to raise child. Hope others can throw light.
At this time having duel systems of laws ( one law of land , superseding that law of gods/Allahs) is confusing and it is not clear which law is supreme .
Good morning.

Akcheema, out of interest, did your Forensic Med teachers ever say anything like this? I'm guessing not.
Again, too, I would ask you to take a look at parthaab's form on this. He has said many disgusting things about Arushi and about Scarlet Keeling. There is a certain group of men that thinks women are wanton and will have random sex at any cost, and then blame men, and he belongs to this group. To you as a man, he is an interesting curiosity, and he may make some sense, but as a woman, I see in his statements the same ideas and attitudes that have held Indian women back for centuries.

I still understand what parthaab says, but I personally know of a few rape cases that were never reported, because families were too ashamed that this happened to their daughters, and because they were afraid of the certain character assassination that still occurs in Indian rape trials. So, while I don't doubt that a few rape charges are not cut and dry, if they were all prosecuted, many more men would be in jail than they are today.

#25 jay thakeray: i thought i told you that hindu nuts like you are permitted to expose your measly little minds on chowk - but that is all. so dont try to engage in "discussions" with me.

Re: # 25 Mr. Jyp all lands have this dilemma and for people.
To follow the law of man or laws of god. Most countries have clear distinction. Like white western countries have law above laws of god. In countries like KSA gods laws are supreme, or in China communist gang at top words are law. Problem and Dilemma for Deshis like india, pak and BD. It is not clear as both mans and god's laws coexist and many times at odd with each other. We have to be patient and over next 50 to 60 years things will be sorted out. So women burned in india as beng widows and honor killings will go on. Now this americans and doners of money can force rulers to pick up the laws made by man. But it is not easy but some times fear of economic life line cut can lead to choosing laws made by man. That battle is slow an still outcome uncertain, winds can sweep man made laws and god's laws will control in future. Future is uncertain.