Are the Converted Tribals Really Hindu?

Essentially, these Abrahmic cults are protesting hindus coming out in support of poor forest ganas by saying-

"..mind your own business these forest ganas are not related to you in any way...."

It is like some one saying -

" why are you protesting the rape of this woman when she is not EVEN you family member"

Bloody Rascals!!!

Murad also has been trying to assert the same......using the same old evangelist propaganda that hindu forest dwellers are NOT hindus but something different so that the poor hindu forest ganas are left at the mercy of these soul harvestor Abrahmic cults.

Actually that is what a mullah/ayotollaah sympathesizer would like to assert as well!

It was also hilarious to find mullah Urstruly ruing the fact that their Abrahmic cult Christian bros piped them in "harvesting" poor hindu pagan souls!!

Sorry Murad, your dawah propaganda does not work here and we idolator hindus would continue to raise our voice against your Abrahmic cult of ONE DOG and would continue to support our forest pagan brothers.

And you can keep on posting your nonsense on Pakistani web sites.......

Murad, this is for you-


Tribal Jagannath as a Hindu deity
Tuesday, 14 October 2008

source: Daily Pioneer, October 14, 2008

Sandhya Jain

A 24-feet-tall Hanuman statue, installed at Sunset Point, Kanyakumari, on September 21, 2008, was surreptitiously removed by the Tamil Nadu administration in the wee hours of September 30 after alleged complaints from local fishermen.


The task was directed by Kanyakumari district collector Jyothi Nirmala, who claimed, “The trust which installed the statue had only obtained the permission of the panchayat and this was insufficient.� The panchayat had permitted Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Nama Bhiksha Kendra to create a ‘Hanuman Park,’ but, said vice-president S Pushparaj, “My wife Felicity, elected head of the panchayat, did not understand the difference between a simple park and the installation of a large statue in a public place, and allowed the installation. She wrote to the collector and withdrew her permission.�

There cannot be a greater example of religious intolerance than this peremptory removal of an image of India’s most popular deity. The incident is also indicative of the extent to which the country’s sensitive coastline has been turned anti-Hindu through evangelisation. This raises the question: Why are monotheistic traditions unable to live in peace in pluralist societies?

It is precisely this kind of de-nationalisation that tribals are doggedly contesting in the remote jungles of Orissa, where Christian missionaries are trying to tell them that they (tribals) are not Hindus! Orissa is a State whose spiritual-cultural landscape explicitly reveals the deep symbiotic relationship between tribals and non-tribals from ancient times. Tribal gods have always dominated the Hindu pantheon and in Orissa this has coalesced into a regional tradition centred around Jagannath, one of the foremost deities of the all-India Hindu pantheon.

Jagannath was first worshipped by the Sabara (Savara, Saora) tribe, and ‘miraculously’ appeared in Puri much later. Till today, Daita (Daitya) priests, descendants of the original tribal worshippers, alone have the right to dress the god, move him, and regularly renovate his wooden image. Similarly at the Lingaraj Temple in Bhubaneswar, tribal Badu priests alone are allowed to bathe and adorn the deity.

Orissa is equally famous for the legend of Narasimha, the Vishnu avatar who burst out of a pillar to kill the asur Hiranyakasipu. The pillar is a uniconical image worshipped in tribal areas and to this day Orissa abounds with Narasimha images on wooden pillars symbolising Khambheshvari (Goddess of the Pillar). Narasimha is believed to derive his power from the shakti residing in the pillar. The pillar motif became so popular in Hindu tradition that Shiv as Bhairav was said to have emerged from a pillar.

The girija or hill-born aspect of Narasimha reinforces the tribal roots of Hindu dharma. An aboriginal god in the form of the head of a lion or tiger was worshipped in the caves and mountains of Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Orissa has instances of Narasimha being worshipped as a saligram stone.

Jagannath, Vishnu as ‘Lord of the World’, shows the metamorphosis of a tribal god into a pre-eminent deity of the classical Hindu pantheon. The god’s icon is even today carved out of wood (not stone or metal), and the tribes whose rituals and traditions were woven into his worship are still living as tribal and semi-tribal communities in the region. This tribal god took a fairly circuitous route to his present pinnacle, via absorption of local shakti traditions and merger with the growing popularity of the Narasimha and Purushottam forms of Vishnu in the region in the medieval era.

Queen Vasata in the eighth century built the famous Lakshman temple in brick at Sripur. The temple plaque opens with a salutation to Purushottam, also titled Narasimha, suggesting a trend in Vaishnav tradition to stress the ugra aspect of Vishnu. This culminates in Puri where Jagannath, widely revered as Purushottam until the end of the 13th century, had close connections with Narasimha who became popular in Orissa in the post-Gupta period.

But who exactly was this wooden god? After the death of Anantavarman Chodagangadev, who reputedly commissioned the Puri temple, his chief queen, Kasturikamodini, built a temple in his homeland in Tekkali (present Andhra Pradesh), east of his first capital Kalinganagar, in 1150 AD. The temple was dedicated to the god Dadhivaman, and the inscription reveals that the image installed was of the ‘Wooden God’, and not the famous Puri Trinity of Jagannath-Balabhadra-Subhadra. Scholars say this means that Chodagangadev was a devotee of this god, and as the god’s name is preserved in Tekkali in this early period, it seems likely that Dadhivaman (or the tribal form of this Sanskritised name) was the original name of the ‘Wooden God’.

As the original ‘Wooden God’ was a unitary figure, temples for the single deity continued to be built even after a Trinitarian image emerged at Puri. Even today there are 344 Dadhivaman temples in Orissa, which perpetuate the original state of the god. The Kondh continue to practice a ritual renewal of wooden posts.

There is also something striking about the figures comprising the Jagannath triad. Subhadra’s image consists of only a trunk and a head, but Jagannath and Balabhadra are larger, with a trunk, over-dimensional head, and arm stumps. But while the heads of Subhadra and Balabhadra are oval with almond-shaped eyes, Jagannath’s head is curiously flat on top and is dominated by enormous round eyes.

Scholars explain this in terms of Narasimha’s association with wooden posts representing tribal deities. In the Andhra village Jambulapadu (Anantapur), Narasimhasvami is worshipped as a pillar to which a sheet shaped in the form of a lion’s head is attached. This lion-head explains Jagannath’s large round eyes, typical of Narasimha on account of his fury (krodh). The head of the Jagannath image makes sense when perceived as a lion’s head, where the emphasis is on the jaws, rather than as a human head.

If, as missionaries allege, classical Hindu tradition was different from the tribal, why would tribal deities rise to become the dominant figures in the Hindu pantheon? As this has been a regular pan-India phenomenon, it seems reasonable to deduce that tribals were never culturally subordinate in their interaction with non-tribal (caste Hindu) communities, but were rather the fountainhead of the Hindu cultural evolution.

#295 Posted by dost_mittar on
:-) Everybody knows how much philosophy is there in Islam, it is an open secret:-)

[[
As for me, apart from political Islam, the main philosophy is that Mohammad was the last prophet; concepts like Monotheism and most of the stories like the Genesis and the concepts of Hell and Heaven are straight from the Judeo-Christian traditions.
]]

Right, but those traditions themselves failed to comprehend the details of all kind of theism available in Hinduism. Much before Christianiy, Hinduism and Buddhism have said all you can say about God, and in a fairly intellectual way. Somehow despite those persian/arab/greek traders Christianity was not able to copy so many good things from Indic religions and then Islam tried to correct imaginary problems in Christianity with its ultra imaginary solutions through arabic speaking God. This is an amazing thing, SIlamic scholars try to say two things, first Muhammad didn't know anything about Christianity, second their religion is trying to clear the ideas of all prophets.

So basically all blame goes to imaginary Allaha:-)

That was how philosophy started in Islam.

Laddu ji,
Thank you for the explanations. I learned a new word today:Nirguna

GT
I am not TS. I borrowed those words from a chowk interact, and that's why I placed them in quotations.

And no, no worries, Islam is not khatre mein. Though some Muslims maybe so!

yaar GT, what do you think about this?

I floated the idea of creating a Distressed Economies Equity fund the other day to Dashy. I think for pakistan an equity investment would do the trick. wipe out the debt, bring in capital to develop insitutions per conditions of the agreement.

1) redristribute land and all gov't controlled assets to pvt owenership
2) limit the army to a standing force of 100K
3) Abolish all madrassahs
4) Change the contitution to remove all aspects of religion
5) Bring in crack turnaround specialists from Lazard, Alvarez Marsal and Goldman (give them warrants and euqity in pakistan based on milestones hit)
5) give up dreams of kashmir
6) Go public on the BSE

"..Is your God(gods) for all of mankind or just for Hindus? ."

Indeed , there are heirarchy of spiritual beings and all have emerged from the Brahman that is the one eternal "sat-chid-anand" reality.

But , that does not turn spiritual beings like Devatas as "FALSE" . All these spiritual beings can be worshipped.

Brahman as a Saguna-Ishwara can be worshipped as the eternal reality with positive attributes.

But Brahman in its nirguna (Formless) form CANNOT BE WORSHIPPED.

Nirguna Brahman CANNOT even be thought about. It can ONLY be REALIZED in Samadhi or deepest trance-like meditation.

I hope it clarifies ....

Hamid,

Don't worry about swaps etc. .... the worst is yet to come. The recession is yet to sink in and the credit card crisis is yet to be publicly proclaimed. If you do not want to be called an idiot by the Mrs., transfer whatever you have of your saving to tahmed's Islamic Bank. Alternately, I can tell you how to make some money in these troubled times for a small fee.

Re: # 295

d.M.sb

'concepts like Monotheism and most of the stories like the Genesis and the concepts of Hell and Heaven are straight from the Judeo-Christian traditions.'


Then why the crusade.. why spanish inquisition why some yahod/christian oppose muslims if same same ?

ts,

"Since our 'lotus like' Hindu/Indian friends of Pakistan are not only trying to reform Pakistan, but Islam itself, I thought it was about time that a Pakistani returned the favor."

Arre bhai, kaal is simply responding to the 'gentle'-man who has defined Hinduism for kaal. Don't be upset, go back to your yoga. Islam is not in danger.

Re: # 294

"Can you condemn, without hesitation, the crimes that took place on innocent Christians in Orissa?"

Certainly, I CONDEMN ALL CRIMINAL ACTIONS AGAINST INNOCENT CHRISTIAN CONVERTS.

I hope that clears the matter!

buleya#262:

"what was islam, before these places came into existence?"

It was the Islam practised by the likes of Ghori, Ghazni and others who, in turn, were following the examples set by Abu Bakr, Omar, going all the way to Prohpet Mohammad's dealing with Banu Quraiza and the jews of Medina.

"now, if you can prove that what you say is a part of islam philosophically, then your views become factual....."

I have not read any succinct description of the philosophy of Islam but Mr. Pinku seems to know about it and wants to discuss it with you.

As for me, apart from political Islam, the main philosophy is that Mohammad was the last prophet; concepts like Monotheism and most of the stories like the Genesis and the concepts of Hell and Heaven are straight from the Judeo-Christian traditions.

re 291, 292
Laddu ji,
You forgot to respond to the fact that the people terrorized in Orissa were ordinary persons. Not only you don't condemn that, you came up with excuses which makes you sound just like those who support jihadi-terror.

Can you condemn, without hesitation, the crimes that took place on innocent Christians in Orissa?
If not, how are you different from supporters of Taliban?

As far as your post on Hinduism is concerened, I did not understand most of the sanskrit words.

I do, however, know that for you guys, your land and your religion are indistinguishable.
That creates feelings of not-belonging to those Indians who are not Hindus.
If you cannot elevate God to supra-universal, can you at least elevate God to the universal level?
Is your God(gods) for all of mankind or just for Hindus?

#290 KaalChakra

:))

At this point I'm expecting deafening silence from the Islamists. The slow-witted knuckleheads are baffled. They're probably looking at this post with a mixture of suspicion and bewilderment. They know - just know there is something bad here, but cannot lay their fat fingers on the exact spot.

Ha ha ha...

Re: # 286

safe,

you do NOT need a justification for jehad against idolators like me - it is already there in your book. It is ordered by Mohammad and his alter ego Allah.

There is no need to talk about some 1947 or 1971 or Gujrat - you just need to read Hadiths , some tafsirs and atend to your Jumma sermons and get ready for jihad against us!

do not fool yourself!!

Re: # 285

1safe ji,



2. Non-hindus (read Islamic followers ) have problem because of the Islamic thought itself which does not allow any allegience to the kafir land except that of Arabian lands.

Here is what I propose for reforming Hinduism.

1. "Ishwar must be liberated from Indian nationalism. That which is supra-universal cannot be brought down to universal level, let alone, national level...."

Ishwara has nothing to do with Hindu nationalism- who told you that it is like Islamic TNT? You have a poor underrstanding of hindutva.

And who gave you the right to impose dhimmi notions of "supra-universal" that does NOT admit of local deities like Sthana-devata , Grama-devata??

We Hindu idolators would continue to admit of million of god of small things and bow down even to the smallest of atomic entity and stones on this earth. You are no one to tell us NOT to worship gods of small things including the Gods of various forests (Vana-devatas) and villages (Grama-devatas) of Hind!!


"2. Indian nationalism must be released from the clutches of Hindu theology.
This will make it easier for non-Hindu Indians to identify with their country without feeling that are getting away from 'their understanding' of God."

It is ever more stupid to talk about hindutva as if it is a counter part of Abrahmic "nation-hood".
Indian nationalism if hindutva type has nothing to do with 'hindu-theology' or their understanding of some Abrahmic DOG.

"3. Since so many educated Indians are declaring themselves as atheists, because they cannot reconcile with flying monkey brigades, Hindu theology must be distinguished from Hindu mythology."

What is "hindu theology" can you please enlighten since you speak from your Abrahmic perspective??

"4. ....Therefore, it is imperative that the cast system be abolished entirely. Because this cast system causes nothing but misery and humiliation on people based on factors they themselves have no control over."

Sure, caste system has no recognition as a legitimate legal entity- except for the purposes of reverse discrimination.

You are living in your own make believe Paki undestanding of India.

"5. Laxmi puja must be turned into Laxmi light puja. While it is necessary to acknowledge the necessity of wealth, it should not be taken to extremes. One should not burn a bride because she brought insufficient dowry: one should not kill females before they are born, just because they may become a 'financial burden' later on."

What the heck is Laxmi-light-puja?? Do you even know what is puja?? How is it linked to bride burning which happened because of the distortions that thousand years of muslim subjugation has distorted the family relations within a dhimmized hindu society and depressed the status of dhimmi woman.