Are the Converted Tribals Really Hindu?

bulleya#373:

I had referred to the Last Sermon because your quote did not come from The Quran; if you give the appropriate quote from the Quran, then that could be discussed, if not by me, then by some real experts on the Quran and Arabic.

As for the hearsay part, wasn't the Quran itself compiled by Usman decades after the death of the Prophet? And didn't he also use the same technique? I believe that he appointed a committee to come up with the correct version since there were conflicting versions. Come to think of it, the Quran does sometimes appear to be the work of an inter-departmental committee trying to accomodate conflicting viewpoints.

And oral traditions are quite acceptable in religion, The Hindus hold their vedas as sacred and they were passed down over centuries from fathers to sons in an oral tradition; still they are considered valid because a brahmin from Kashmir recites the same mantras as the one from Kerala.

To a non-muslim, ahadith are more authentic than the quran for which one has to accept sometimes seemingly self-serving revelations by one person.

I accepted your accusation of prejudice against me but I should add that, if I am prejudiced, so are Urstruly and akcheema: they differ profoundly in their acceptance of their faith but seem to display a lot greater detailed and in-depth knowledge of their religion than do either you or tahmed saheb.

How did we come to shia sunni Deoband Wahabi Bokhari ?

The article and heading is






Are the Converted Tribals Really Hindu?

Answer that .

why Cheema Hamidm ...Are NOT muslim?

Its Yes to both question Sorry Murad .You have the opposite view

Re: # 380

who flagged my post and why ? ..... for god's sake, "cow dung" is not a bad word !

Re: # 370

#370 Posted by majumdar on October 23, 2008 3:27:45 am
Cheema sahib,

For a murtid, you do know a lot about the Faith.

Regards

Infact defenition of MURTID is historians expert on Islam ...lol

Bernerd Pipes Lewis
Arun Francis koenrad Shourie
Hamidm Aga Khan Mohommed progeny military brat

Cheema the local hala meat butcher turned moshe Kahane ..

Hamidm #380 I was telling mr cheema that, not you. While you and I disagree at times, given your basic urbane and friendly manner, it is always a pleasure to chat (including taking differing views) with you.

And your warning about the tweety bird is quite valid - it is too easy to turn religion into a fetish. I am too old for that, and my views on religion have been consistent and steady through the years on chowk - i.e. keep it simple. dont make a meal out of it (leave that to the unemployable men who need a beard and who need to do magical tricks - aka rituals to assuage their insecurities (or more, advance their economic prospects). But I have seen too many people sink into this "nice and cosy" bs that they sincerely think is Islam to disagree with you on this point.

Re: # 373
Salman Historian Cheema

Its ammended correctly

Al maja was not god neither he produced Koran

There is history of Islam fron 7th cemtury till date

There are better HISTORIANS than u & salman If we want REAL history instead of Fiction Booker Salman .in case u dont know booker is for fictions not history .....who am i talking to wall ..


Prince phillip
while his mother, Princess Alice of Battenberg, was the eldest child of Prince Louis of Battenberg, (german)and

sister to Earl Mountbatten of Burma

tahmed mian,

..... i, for one, am not 'freaked out' that you are 'comfortable' in your faith ...... actually i am happy for you and wish you a wonderful hereafter with virgins of your choice ....... but i would still like to remind you of the little tweety bird that fell into a pile of fresh cow dung and decided to stay in it because it was nice and cosy and warm .....

Re: # 364 Cheema

Some of your assertions made in your post are based on the common misconception that the Islamic law and Jurisprudence is based on the Ahadith compiled and "verified" by Bokhari et al, but truth, in fact, is opposite to that. The Islamic law and jurisprudence, as we know it today, came into existence first, and ahadith were compiled later.

The fact of the matter is that Imam Bukhari is not the first or the only person who compiled ahadith about 200 years later; but the fact remains that the great work of establishing Islamic laws which is based essentially on Qura'n and Hadith had already been completed 100 years before Bokhari was born (810 AC).

For example, the great Muslim Jurist Imam Abu-Hanifa (699-767) was born only 60 years after the departure of Holy Prophet (pbuh); Imam Malik was born (715-796); Imam Shafi (767-820); and Imam Hanbal (780-855). The Islamic law as we know it today is based on the legalise established by these jurists.So now when Imam Bokhari was born, great work on ahadith and turning them into law had already been completed and was already in practice. Interestingly enough Imam Malik's book of Law Al-Mowatta which still exists today and is available on-line is nothing but collection of hadith. He also uses the method of chain of narration which is attributed to Imam Bokhari.

#367: and as for the substance of what you write, you ask "now you show me where in the Surah above you get the 'legend' in detail?". Let me ask you this: where in my response did I need to know the legend in detail??

And let me then ask you this: Talking of gobbledygook, you are confusing hadith with historical background. Get this straight in your head then come talk to me about religion. (Except, per my post below, I am not interested in further exchanges with you anyway).

And spare me your pompous offers to translate from the Arabic - are you seriously unaware that the Quran is readily available with translations!!

Ref akcheema #373

[Ibn-e-maja has relayed one such hadith where the goat ate some verses related to 'grown women suckling grown men'!! ... which could have brought our "tradition" on par with the Kamasutra!! (alas)]

Is it possible that the goat could actually read Arabic (hey, miracles ARE known to occur and are documented in every type of religious writing) and selectively ate these verses out of resentment that it was violated by a member of a different species?

And in retaliation, fatwa-online has sanctioned the killing and consumption of a goat a pious Muslim had sex with?

Anyway, how come no Quranists have answered my repeated requests for the meanings of certain verses?

Unbeliveable but true! The same caste of characters insulting the Qur'an by blowing their own poor souls into smithereens!

The spiritual health of this 'sponsored' site and its interacters remains a big fat NOTHING.

cheema sahib #367: I realize that you are more freaked out by someone like me who does not fit your caricature of a muslim who is comfortable with his faith, than by someone like urstruly who does. So give me a break - urstruly challenged me and I responded.

What I wrote is clear enough, and you are merely trying to paint it as confusing "gobbledygook".

I ignored the rest of your post after the chowk-style insulting manner in the opening sentence. This is the third time I have had to point to your insulting manner, you apologized the first two times, no need to apologize the third time. I like to waste time on chowk with individuals who can write like civilized people. Cheers.

Re: # 373

CORRECTION:

no "the" before allah ... he is unique enough as it is and

...amended (NOT amanded)

apologies

Re: # 372; hamidm sahib

LOL!! ... I take it the question is purely rhetorical? .. we are talking about a goat 'inspired' by the holy spirit here!

Ibn-e-maja has relayed one such hadith where the goat ate some verses related to 'grown women suckling grown men'!! ... which could have brought our "tradition" on par with the Kamasutra!! (alas)

we all know about the "Satanic Verses" ... even mentioned by Tabri ... where the daughters of the allah were denied their legitimate status (no goats were harmed in this one!)

the other one (10 'siparas') is of course related to Ali's 'buzurgi' amongst the 'Salaaf' ....

I'll tell you a little story here .... when Prince Phillip married Elizabeth, the constitution was amanded to grant British citizenship to the prince ... (Greek by birth) ... this amendment has a name but the general public knows it as "shagging the queen"!!

Khuda hafiz

Re: # 366

chhema sahib,

.... we all know that zaid bin thabit and the three knaves are the real authors/editors of the book, but what about the goat ? ....... according to my people, the goat played a major role in preventing ali from ascending the throne after mo's death .... since you seem to be an expert on the twisted history of the koran, can you confirm the goat's role in its publishing ......

......also, did anyone vaidate the origin of any of the verses recited by a winged creature or do we have to take mo's word for it?...... did anyone question ali and khadija ?......... how do we know that mo didn't make up all that stuff ....... using the logic that the koran has been memorized by a lot of people and therfore must be true, can we assume that jack and jill really went up the hill ?

Re: # 370; majumdar

to reject something one needs to know what one is rejecting ... it is only fair