Are the Converted Tribals Really Hindu?

Let's say, for argument sake, tribals are not hindus... so what?... does that mean they should be open target for missionaries for their "harvest of soul" business?...

Tribals' "original" identity may be open for discussion, but that's not the issue ehre - the issue here is mass and illegal conversion perpetrated by missionaries on these unsuspecting people...

Missionaries, like all religion-obsessed people, are fundamentalists themselves... nobody cares about their bible-thumping mumbo-jumbo in their own homelands any more, so they have go elswhere to find easy targets to spread their non-sense...

Their actions in tribal areas will always draw reactions fanatics from opposite faction... that's inevitable... everybody is welcome to help people, but that does not give license to anybody for soul harvesting business...

Murad ji, semitists like you are doing Hindus a great service. You are forcing Hindus to confront and clarify what they mean by being Hindu, and how they are different from semitists.

This is something Hindus don't really want to do. They resist it. Old timers will do everything in their power not to face up to reality. But the way you semtists are continuing, more and more Hindus will be forced into clarifying their stark differences from all semitists.

And the first step to that is precisely the one you are forcing them to take - to tell who is and who is not a Hindu.

Kaal:

As far as my study and knowledge goes, the only definition of Hindu is, if someone calls himself/herself a hindu. People like Murad Baig playing dangerous game because they want to force a well defined yardstick of "who/what is a Hindu". This is dangerous because it strengthens the hands of Hindu fundamentalists, and Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena and similar reactionary forces feel vindicated in their position of "conversion".

Murad Sahib, please find a better subject.

#1#2#3

I dont know if Murad is right or wrong .

I am wondering when can a person over age 18 or accepted age of adulthood can make an independent discision .

As a apolicy i dont confront or question it

b/c majority interest is so .And as majority feels its precondition for peace ..

label any discision as a result of bribery would it extend to say love marriage what if one wants to sell himself to highest bidder .

Anil/Kaal

Yep... Murad is not the only person doing so... I saw an article on TOI by Shashi Tharoor, who was arguing that what's going on is not "Real Hinduism", "Real Hindus" are supposed to tolerant of everything and everybody... even the fanatics from other religions...

Looks like liberals in india have completely lost their marbles: they are trying to counter religious fanatics like BD by invoking religion itself... Ha ha...

anil ji, this is very dangerous. Even if these semitists manage to convert 10 additional percent, and leave 70% with strong identities, India will be a completely different place than it is today.

I think these semitists are looking for direct trouble.

------------

Ideally, we would want people to understand what they are doing and stop doing it, but intellectually, we should know that that won't happen.

---------------------

Shah ji, this is not a individual-level issue because the forces driving it are not individual-level. There are whole groups of people involved - from creating of ideologies to pushing them to implementing them on the field.

Since it hurts Hindus, they will have to address it. But they cannot address this phenomenon individually. They will have to see themselves as a group, and create group-level interactions with other groups. If these interactions are antagonistic, that won't be a positive development.

hindoos have terrible minority relations. they need to learn how to keep peace.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Malaysia_bans_Hindu_organisat ion/articleshow/3603889.cms

There is some justice in these 'conversions' of tribals to christianism. The argument that missionaris are giving material and social advantage to convert is no longer valid. Why Hindus are not doing same, especially now when we have multi-billionnaires among us? Why Bajrang dal does not gherao Lakshmi Mittal who considers himself too young to do any charity or Vijay Mallya who will gild the Tirupati temple but do not feel any responsibility towards poor on the footpath of his office?

Semitic religions destroyed polytheism but is'nt Hinduism used it to fund merchants of faith and pass it for charity . Is'nt this multitude of deities which gives an easy escape route from any social responsibility to Hindus. If the money and riches offered at temple altars were used as a general rule for opening schools, langars, etc.. may be these tribals / dalits whould have never felt any need to convert.

No financing by any western christian organisation can equal the ressources which many temples and Maths have. Why Sain baba, Sirdi baba and other babas get liberal offerings from all and sundry while poor tribals had to fight draught recently. Are'nt the Mahants and Pujaris, the merchants of the temple which Christ or Mohammad drove away. Unfortunately Hindus have become so callous that social justice is nowhere part of neither religion nor tradition.

Regards, that is part of the problem. Semtitics would not succeed if Indics, Hindus in particular, did not have specfic weaknesses.

The question is: What does one do with a group that attacks you at your weak points?

I think two respones will follow. One, attempt to plug those weaknesses. Two, to recongize the attackers and attack them back, at points of their weaknesses.

This dynamic is inherently unfortunate. Ideally, one would prefer to avoid it. It's dangerous. Confrontation and conflicts have a way of not following written scripts.

Hinduism is an exclusive religion, and Hindus are divisive cannibals; that is why their numbers have dwindled and they are a minority in India. The 2 k anjars (Nehru and Gandhi)and the Canjree party) saw this and promoted the creation of Pakistan.

If you take out the dalits, divide Hindus along castes and races, linguists....among other exclusions, Muslims are the mjority in the Subcontinent.

It seems all Hindus are becoming terrorists slowly:-)

Almost everybody here is against Murad Baig from beginning.

Probably semitic religions do want Hindus to gain some fanaticism, but they do not think that it may soon go out of control.

The day average Hindu is as obssessed with his religion and religious identity as an average muslim, things will go out of control. India will not be a place where 20% or even 30% minotiry will be able to survive. Further, doesn't matter how much fanatic Hindus become they consider all Indic religions to be same, so in India it will be like semitic versus indic religions.

#10 Posted by kaurasach on

[[
If you take out the dalits, divide Hindus along castes and races, linguists....among other exclusions, Muslims are the mjority in the Subcontinent.
]]

why do so much for such a calculation, if you take out hindus from India then muslims are in majority???

Ref jang #7

[hindoos have terrible minority relations. they need to learn how to keep peace.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Malaysia_bans_Hindu_organisat ion/articleshow/3603889.cms]

Typical Islamic Logic.

The Malays are 45% of the population of Malaysia. 35% are Chinese, 10% are Orang Asli (aborigines) and 10% are Indians.

This 45% minority, by sheer threat of violence, has appropriated power; has kept 80% (on paper; in reality, more) of government jobs to itself; funds the construction of mosques with government money but won't pay for public schools for the Chinese or the Indians; demands that all private enterprises should have a Malay chairman of the Board who, for lending his name, takes home a fat salary and perks; etc., etc., etc.

On top of that, any frikking mullah can conveniently claim that somebody had become a Muslim after his death and take his body and bury it in Islamic fashion, against the wishes of the family of the dead man.

So, the insults and injuries do not stop even after death.

And you mufukka idiot is telling us that the Hindus are trouble-makers?

Fcuk you!

And fcuk all of you who red-flag this post.

Ref Regards #8

[There is some justice in these 'conversions' of tribals to christianism. The argument that missionaris are giving material and social advantage to convert is no longer valid. Why Hindus are not doing same, especially now when we have multi-billionnaires among us?]

Who said Hindus aren't doing it?

The Kanchi Sankaracharya and his monastery run a University in Kanchipuram. As an accredited university, its curriculum is approved by the University Grants Commission and includes all fields of arts and science, including Computer Science. Under the prodding of the Sankaracharya, Dr. Badrinath set up Sankara Nethralaya, a hospital for treating the eye, and 50% of surgeries are for the poor and performed free of charge. The Balaji Temple at Tirupathi has been running the Sri Venkateswara University for almost 50 years now and even runs a medical college.

The Masanamuthus who run the Tamil Nadu state government (and who constantly preach against Hinduism) have requested the Sai Baba of Puttaparthi to please clean up the Cooum river which they have managed to convert into a stinking sewer. If it happens, the only good thing is that the current bunch of thugs in government wouldn't be able to extort 30% of the project money from the Sai Baba!

The Sai Baba paid Rs 2.5 billion from his funds to line the canal that brings water to Chennai from the Krishna river with concrete so that losses along the way due to seepage would be minimized. This is public works project that should have been funded by the government. To my knowledge, the Sai Baba has not demanded that the water should not be given to Christian or Muslim homes. The Sai Baba also runs a huge hospital at Whitefileds, Karnataka (outside Bangalore).

The Ramakrishna Mission runs schools and hostels across the country where students are admitted without regard to caste and brought up without any indoctrination about the caste system. Yet, the Ramakrishna Mission had to go all the way to the Supreme Court of India to have itself declared a minority institution to be free from the clutches of government regulations specifically aimed at Hindu-run institutions.

[Why Bajrang dal does not gherao Lakshmi Mittal who considers himself too young to do any charity or Vijay Mallya who will gild the Tirupati temple but do not feel any responsibility towards poor on the footpath of his office?]

Why should Lakshmi Mittal do anything for you fcukers? He made his money sitting in London, not in India where the only one allowed to have the privileges of wealth are the G@ndu-Nehru clan of bandits and their hangers-on?

Murad Ali Baig writes

[The conversion of Christians in the riot hit areas Kandhamal in Orissa underlines the hypocrisy of the whole conversion business. Several reports confirm that many tribals have cynically accepted the tonsuring of their hair and the mouthing of Vedic prayers as a small price to pay to get back to theirvillages.]

On the other hand, saying "La Illahi il-allah Mohammad Rasool Allah" and eating a dish of beef at the bidding of a mullah and under the watchful eye of a soldier brandishing a sword is "voluntary" conversion and has resulted in folks like Murad Ali Baig lecturing on the loss of Hinduism's gentle core!

If this board becomes a place for us to do some of Stuka's RR, so be it. May be it will do some good. :)

If we combine what kaura and hari are saying, we get a good idea of the problem and the challenge.

Kaura is absolutely on the money. We are by nature an extremely divisive, canniablistic people. Our identity is tied to the different jhumri talaiyya's northwest corners we differently live in, and jhumri taliyya's differnet northwest corners become our brotherhoods.

No wonder such people are turned into a minority in their own land by those for whom jhumri talaiyya is merely a curiosity, not the sole reason and basis for their being.

And when we do pull ourselves out of that little part of the little hamlet, we go UNIVERSAL! Then we can't tell between brother and nonbrother!!

In such a situation, it seems meaninglesss to suggest, as Regards rightly did, that Hindus should take care of Hindus. Hindus can't do so because they can't think of themselves as Hindus, being lovers either of different jhumri talaiyyas or of the 'human being.'