Ridiculing Religion or Religion of Ridicule

#111 akcheema
I feel same uplifting whether listening to Beethoven or Quran or Gita ... or even just listening to silence of the nothingness ... or looking at a 'blade of grass' ... (Whitman)

Gosh, what rubbish I am talking ... when it is all subjective ...

Re: # 110

samina bibi,

.... i hate it when old friends change their names .....

..... anyway, i have to reach waaay back in memory, but as far as i can recollect, sufi qawaals and credence clearwater have the same effect when you are high on hashish ...... both used to bring tears to my eyes

Re: # 107; quin

now you are just insulting Beethoven (and his intelligence!) ... I happen to be a fan ... especially Symphony No: 9 ... "an ode to joy" ... what has that got to do with what you are saying again???

oye hamid sahib,

let me dumb it down for you:

Sufi qawwal

Re: # 107

that's interesting. how might that be linked to the orality of several religious texts, i.e. text that is meant to recited, sung and heard?

Re: # 107

quin mian,

....i could not make any sense whatsoever out of your post - it was a bunch of gobbledegook and utter rubbish ...... you, in your desperate and pathetic attempt to justify your ridiculous belieefs are trying to obfuscate and confuse a simple balck and white issue ........ what is this nonsense about jacob wrestling with god ? ...... next thing we know, you will have our own mo of mecca wrestling with a winged creature in a dark cave .......

........ for joe's sake, give it up!

p.s. if you have any more basic questions that are bothering you, ask - i am sure i can answer them

I am replying to akcheema & shoib_danyal first, so my apologies for not following the discussion in orderly way.

Both of these posts # 97 & # 98 have assumed a corollary from my first sentence without looking closely at my second sentence.

I said science cannot provide answers to the big questions of life. The next I said, it is not the reason for validity of religious experience. What does this means dear friends, is that neither religion can provide answers to all the questions. I continued saying therefore pitting one against the other does not produce anything of real value.

I agree this is a bit simplified statement of what I really am trying to say. Sometime words defy what I really want to say.

Now saying that religion cannot provide the answers is also not the whole story. For some people it does. That is where the problem starts.
Therefore, your misunderstanding is understandable.

Enigma of life is never going to be solved by human mind completely - that is the nature of the beast. We humans are given a paradox to wrestle with all our life. That is same story played again and again, when Biblical Jacob wrestles with God - and is named Israel.

It is all about this wrestling. Some will try to wrestle with this 'OTHER' through logic, rationality and science; some through art, music and literature; some through mysticism, spirituality and intuition; and some through commerce, politics, and professions.
There are no absolute answers however. Nor everyone tries to consciously look for the answers. But everyone is wrestling deep down.

As far as religion is concerned, for me it is like listening to music. All the sacred texts at their core (when the core can be accessed) are musical pronouncements in the language of myth - mankind’s most powerful device of knowing the reality through intuition. When you hear to Beethoven does it provide you answers to your questions?
What does it do to you? When it does not do anything, probably your sense of appreciation is not in a heightened state which could help you tune to it.

For me the problem of religion (which makes all atheists feel the need for bashing it) is a problem of misunderstanding the myth by the followers of religion (and atheist alike). One accesses the spirit of religion when one can tune to the REALITY through the instrument of mythical language of the sacred texts. I use the word myth in the sense Joseph Campbell (and to some extent Carl Jung) have used it. It is not indicative of non-reality, but is a portal to reality.

#87 Posted by masadi on October 31, 2008 7:16:55 pm



Here is the "big" question: Prove to me how with a probability of near zero for "chance" to have created life let alone conscious life, how will you use science to disprove teleology


damn......you have no understanding of the theory of evolution....let along the basics of the scientific method...

put down mills and pick up miller....kenneth miller, that is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZKC2U-jWrw


Cornell West and Irshad Manji on Bill Maher

Good question, Rabia!

Also, I know some scientist and doctors who are also devout Muslims BUT are open minded in their world views. That is, they are able to seriously engage with scientific, social and religious systems.

But that's prolly too difficult for Maher and his apologists to understand....

Re: # 101; Rabia

one thing at a time girl!

for all those who are against organized religions because so many human lives have been lost because of them are you also against the concept of nation states? Or do you think the benefits provided by a modern state outweigh the costs to individuals.

whatever made you think religion CAN?? science provides the answers to legitimate questions and "works towards" finding the answers to the 'unknown'; what does religion give you? a satisfaction with fairytales as a substitute for knowledge? ... what a self-delusional state to be proud of eh!

LOL.. yeah, i wonder how the religious folks make these claim without any sense of humour.

Re: # 97; shoaib

LOL!! ... well said Douglas Adams!

Re: # 85; quin

(science can't provide ....)

whatever made you think religion CAN?? science provides the answers to legitimate questions and "works towards" finding the answers to the 'unknown'; what does religion give you? a satisfaction with fairytales as a substitute for knowledge? ... what a self-delusional state to be proud of eh!

I really had some hopes for you quin but looks like you have really sold your soul to the 'dark side' instead of rational thinking! .... now live with it sir ... unless ..