G-8: RIP?

majumdar #: "Could we have let's say an American Jinnah as well who will one day get up and make a speech that Canada was two nations ever since the first Muslim sailed into NYC?"

that speech has already been made in canada......from quebec........however, unlike nehru, the candian leadership agreed to accomodate quebec as an equal but separate entity in the canadian state......

that is, actually, what jinnah wanted, as well.......unfortunately, he was too far ahead of his times.....for others to grasp his ideas.....

i think most people in usa know they are better off in usa than outside.......however, if the size of the pie shrinks significantly, and one group ends up with a major chunk of it, then you may hear such speeches.....

much like what we heard, when india demanded indepdence from the british.......

Now G20 should include GCC and China, until Brazil and Argentina finds huge oil reserve....

Re: # 34
hamidm2...
so the beduine follwers were doing good work (in human sense) and only recently they are lagging to indians!!!!....LOL....
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=z53K4d6ncNk

Re: # 13
treetop...
"history..."
oh realy!!!!!!!!!

Re: # 47
HP...
Job situation in India is not very good. But IT sector is still growing. We have recruited normal number of people from College Campus. There is no employement freeze ( at least in large corporates. Some small companies are winding up operation). The off campus recruitement will be very less this time. I am not seeing massive retrenchment currently. It is clear that, unless and until asian countries grow rapidly, future is not very bright....

Re: # 47
HP...
yeh, India is passing through very bad time....
I think the intentions of the IAF was clear. To compete with F-15s not with F-22s and other stuff. But USAF thought Indians are trying to match with them. Kind of communication gap.

Regarding recession, it will recover very soon (6 months to 1 year in india). Even japan is facing recession...

Sorry, make that "America was two nations"

Regards

Romair,

#61

but someone who comes up due to large immigrant populations in canada.....

Could we have let's say an American Jinnah as well who will one day get up and make a speech that Canada was two nations ever since the first Muslim sailed into NYC?

Regards

majumdar #: ...yes it could happen......i think canada could have a south asian prime minister, soon......not someone like bobby jindal who is popular as a politician.....but someone who comes up due to large immigrant populations in canada.....

following are some statistics from buchanan's book:

"Relying upon the most recent UN population studies, Buchanan declares:

By 2050, only 10% of the world’s people will be of European descent. ( We know it is less. He can't admit the facts.) One third of Europe’s people will be over 60, and one-in-ten over 80. Involuntary euthanasia has already come to Europe.

Between now and 2050, Asia, Africa, and Latin America will grow by three to four billion people -- 30 to 40 new Mexicos! -- as Europe will lose the equivalent of the entire population of Germany, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

By 2050, 23 million Germans will have disappeared along with 16 million Italians and 30 million Russians.

Russia will lose Siberia and the far east to China and be pushed out of the Caucuses and Central Asia, where Islamic populations are exploding while Russia’s is dying.

Either Europe must effect a radical cutback in pensions and health care for seniors, or Europe must import scores of millions of Arabs and Africans to care for the elderly and pay the taxes to sustain their welfare states.

The 4.2 million Palestinians in Israel and on the West Bank and Gaza will explode to 9 million by 2025, and 15 million by 2050, when Palestinians will outnumber Israel’s Jewish population two-to-one. .....

The Islamic invasions of Spain and France in the eighth century, and of the Balkans and Central Europe from the 14th to the 17th centuries, will be reenacted in the lifetime of most of those now living. Islam has already surpassed Catholicism as the largest religion on Earth.

It is the Christian nations—Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox—that have begun to die. In a chapter titled, “Where Have All the Children Gone?� Buchanan explains why, and why it is unlikely the West can solve the demographic crisis before it leads to The Death of the West."

...people may want to read the following two books:

- The Death of the West - How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil Our Country and Civilization (by Pat Buchanan)

- The Vanishing American Jew - In Search of Jewish Identity for the Next American Century (by Allen Dershowitz)

...not two of my favorite people.....in fact, i oppose most of their politics.....however, they make very interesting points in their books.......and they come from the opposite side of the int'l liberal anti-usa thought processes......they seem to raising as warnings, what i am highlighting as mere statistical facts......

Romair,

Re: 58

One interesting corollary is that Britian could have an Indian majority and may vote for becoming a part of the Indian Commonwealth and then (future) Indian Kiplings may speak of Britain as the "Jewel in the Indian taj"

Regards

dost-mittar #: "While demographic changes are undoubtedly very important in the long run, just like glaciers......Quebec has already reversed its declining birth rates....While Canada and the US have a long-standing immigration culture"

.....there is nothing more important than demographics in the long run.....this does not mean that the countries with the highest populations will dominate......however, there is a bare minimum population needed to grow a country, even if it is industrially advanced......

......it is very difficult to overturn the recent population declines of nations.....western govts. have given all types of benefits for having kids, but it is not working.....forcing someone to have extra children is the most difficult thing in the world.......

.......jews are the first on the list of going extinct.......by extinct i don't mean down to zero....but down to a number where they, there culture etc. becomes insignificant in the giant ocean of humanity......much like the parsis have become.....

however, even jews (a religion) have been unable to reverse this trend.....

.....how will japan grow and compete when there will be one working person supporting four retired people?......

the westrern countries with decling populations will have to turn into something like uae........where the local population is only 13%, but owns all the assets......it brings in its workers from abroad (mostly south asians, to the point that hindi/urdu/tamil are the spoken languages in uae; much more than arabic).......

......so where will the manpower come from......china, as you said has stablized.....it will have to come from south asia and africa.....(and probably some from china also, as it still has a huge population).......

...there were 12 punjabis in the canadian parliament.....a punjabi reached the second or third highest position in govt......a punjabi is attending the g-20 summit.......

sooner or later (sooner rather than later), this mass of humanity is going to spread all over the world, as its working class.....the aging western world will have no choice but to absorb it, as it will need it for its survival......much like it needs hamidm mian and urstruly......

you may, one day, find out that 10 out of the g-20 nations are represented by ethnically south asian and african heads, who have been elected by the large south asian and african populations in those countries.......

and one fine day spanish may become the national language of usa, along with english.....with an equal number speaking spanish and english....

hamidm mian #: "romair mian,..... read SR's post to understand why you are making a fool out of yourself (again) ....."

you said the same thing to me, when you tried to explain how w was going to change the world and tame the islamic man.....i disagreed......

then you told me that iraq would be a huge success and there would be monuments dedicated to rush limbaugh and richard pearle in baghdad....i disagreed.......

the the dashing american colonel in a cowboy hat was to rule over afghanistan and make it safe for unocol again.....as per your claims, again......i disagreed........

then you tried to explain how suppport for gwot was going to make pakistan safe for citibank......i disagreed........now your sister who used to slap talibans in islamabad a few years ago, is thinking of migrating out to dearborn....

....then mccain was going to come and save the day......w being discarded......i disagreed again......

then you thought i was a fool for moving to canada.....i disagreed.....

we have had these discussions for so long that i cannot even laugh at what you say anymore........(there was a time when you were funny becasue you actually wanted to be funny).......

take a look around you hamidm mian.......

the usa is asking arab sheikhs, chinese and anyone else to save itself......none of whom are ready to throw a dinar its way.....it is begging sadr to negotiate in iraq and mullah umar to negotiate in afghanistan......its best and brightest investment bankers are out on the street.......

now it is up to a half-muslim president to fix it!!......exactly the opposite of w and mccain.....

and pretty soon when the auto industry collapses, you may also think about migrating to ontario (which by the way makes more cars now than michigan, and has the most stable banking system in the world).......

so, you may want to quite while you are behind.......before you get further behind......you are starting to sound like the iraqi general on saturday night live who keeps saying all is well......

SR #: "Let's be under no illusions that the preponderance of one ethnicity over another is what will determine the aggregate tenor of human society. Human bodies are just the hardware. The software is the culture and values. Skin color and other genetic features are secondary."

.....the aggregate tenor (not sure what that exactly means, but it sounds nice) is decided by many factors......i listed some of them.....this is what i meant when i said that progress, technology etc. tends to rotate amongst societies and ethnicities.....

the arabs maybe ruling the world again in a few centuries; or the nigerians or indians......etc........whomever has superior culture and values will rule.......

however, there is one factor that is even more important....and that is the hardware.....the human bodies......it is impossible to rule the world, if you don't have any people......

people, by themselves, are not the deciding factor......but a certain ratio of them, definitely is......specially when technology starts to become ubiquous......

the world is in a strange situation today, demographically.......for the first time, massive populations are starting to decrease; not due to famine or war......but voluntarily......

and for the first time, the population of the world is to peak in 2070 or so and then decrease......

there is no historic example of any country (that i know of) whose domination of economics increased as its population decreased......

when the isreali, japanese etc. researchers are, themselves, highlighting the massive dangers of these phenomenons.......i am surprised others aren't looking at it.......

and it is not glacial......it is rapid.......within decades......

the skin color, ethnicity, and even religion still define mankind more than anything else......just take a look at burraq hussain.......black, closet muslim and half kenyan is what has made him such an object of attention......otherwise he is just another american elect president.......

...i am not trying to gloat over the death of the white man.....i am, actually quite impressed with the achievements of the white man (especially the white jewish man)......

i am, simply, stating that g-8s and g20s etc. are a short term phenomenon......they will change the world for a decade or three.......

but long term outlook of the world will not be formed, simply, by the national boundaries of present-day nations (g-8s etc.).......the will be formed by the massive migrations of a few ethnicities (primarily south asian and african and perhpas chinese and latin in usa) all over the world........

barring russia, there are far more punjabis, alone, than the population of any country in europe......what to talk of any ethnicity.....and within a decade or so, there will be more punjabis than russians also......

now, we can assume that these punjabis will continue to sit in the squalor you have mentioned, for ever.........or, perhaps, one fine day they will see the light and progress......what happens then......

demographics and not technology and culture etc. will decide the future of the world, in my opinion.......i feel, eventually, as i feel technology etc. will be everywhere.....

(why are china and india important........the average indian is still dirt poor.....far far poorer than the average mexican, what to talk of the average american......his human development is lower than that of a palestinian.....it is the gigantic size of their populations that has made them important.....if india had a population the size of canada - 31 million -, with the same amount of poverty, i doubt anyone would even mention the place, anywhere)........

remember when pakis told us the KSE was the "BEST PERFORMING STOCK EXCHANGE IN THE WORLD!!" and then we told them that didn't mean diddly squat..

now it turns out that the KSE has effectively been closed for more than 80 days...

KSE: confounding the confusion



By Dilawar Hussain


KARACHI, Nov 18: With the ‘floor’ securely in place, the problems at the Karachi Stock Exchange are multiplying by the day.

Following the count of 82 days of closure, the longest ever in the history of stock exchanges anywhere in the world, most market participants and insiders of the regulating bodies admit that the situation has come to such a pass that it looks neither safe to remove the ‘floor’, nor to keep it intact.

A person in high place, on condition of anonymity says: “It is damned if we do and damned if we don’t�.

The stock brokers stand clearly divided on the issue. If the ready market provides no indication of the investor sentiments, the off-market transactions are a clear reflection of the lack of confidence.

On Tuesday, in the ready market only five shares were traded with the historic low volume of 19,660 shares. Many times more shares change hands in the off-market.

But the prices they fetch are staggeringly low. Recently MCB was traded at 55 per cent discount to the floor price. If that was incredible, a small volume in blue chip stock PSO went for as deeper discount as 60 per cent.

A responsible person, who also asked not to be named, said that from Aug to date, 20 top scrips had traded in off market at 15 to 17 per cent below the floor price. But he conceded that in the last one week, the gap had widened up to 20-25 per cent.

He tried to assuage concerns saying that both MCB and PSO had gone that cheap since they were held by two foreign hedge funds that were going into liquidation and had no choice but ‘force sale’ their relatively small holdings.In Islamabad, there was little concern, if at all about the fate of KSE. The responsible person there harped on the old tune of receipt of IMF funds.

When pointed out that Shaukat Tarin, the top finance adviser, had categorically stated that none of that money would be used to bail out the brokers; the responsible man fell silent and after a while murmured that the proposed Rs20 billion market stabilisation fund was awaited.

DM sahib,

The Western world will continue to dominate the world economically, politically, technologically and militarily for decades to come, they are that far ahead and they have institutions to uphold their strengths.

But then it is equally true that countries like China, India et al are growing faster than the West and if not for any other reason but simple mathematics their total share in the world's wealth and influence will increase, but slowly. Faster in case of China, slower for India, Brazil et al. Who would have thought a decade back that China's scramble for metals would create such a huge commodity price boom or that China and India would be blamed (rightly or wrongly) for rising world food prices.

Regards