An Indian Muslim

Umair, #122
Thank you

All this chest thumping notwithstanding, the GoI has not blamed GoP for having a hand in this. Since Americans, British & Israeli citizens were killed, all those nations are sending their investigators to monitor the Indian investigation. So, I'm hoping that India wont get away by distorting or twisting the truth.

Maybe this is the best opportunity that India & Pakistan have got to genuinely cooperate, because the enemy is a common one.

Its sad..what you say about Indian muslims..& its true.

If a nation's true character shows through in the moments of tragedy, then its rather disappointing to observe that through these events in Bombay, majority of hindoos of chowk (and other forums) came out looking like monkey's ass.

In stark contrast to pakis behavior during similar tragedies in pakistan, there were no lofty words, no idealism, no uplifting talk, no high-mindedness from hindoos. Rather, it was just plain impotent rage, vulgarity and shallowness from little people of various castes. Even dullahbhatti, a stateless sikh, was found using raw vulgarity towards any paki who happened to be on chowk that day. Couple of lowest caste hindoos thumped their little chests about dire consequences for muslims. But 5 years of coding cannot erase 5000 years of DNA markers. They looked rather ridiculous in their online bravado.

A couple of interactors rose above the rest. Subroto's thread about "celebrating Bombay" was one such exception. that showed his high-mindedness. But for the most part, hindoos made it amply clear why they are stuck in the rut of castes and why their thoughts would never rise above their short heights. And this is exactly why legions of civilizers through the history have taken it upon themselves to bring enlightenment to India, and inshallah will continue to do so.

If tragedies show the true color of a people, then Bombay bared the petty soul of hindoos - at least of the ones using internet.

Well Bulleya they are now claiming that the guy is from Faridkot in Azad Kashmir.... This is a moving target...

there are two tiny faridkots in pakistan.....tiny villages - 100 houses or so......maybe somewhat larger....but tiny.....

the one indians are refering to, close to multan, does not speak punjabi.....it speaks sariaki......or something in between saraiki-punjabi.....

the audio from ndtv, of a terrorist speaking hindi, using hindi words (pariwar etc.) and hindi accents (julam etc.) had, somewhat, of a punjabi accent....though not totally punjabi......it, certainly wasn't a saraiki accent....

the punjabi accent could be from pakistan punjab or indian punjab......or it could be some other local accent of india.....it did not sound like a chaste pure urdu accent - the kind that was spoken in delhi and lucknow......nor was it slang urdu that is spoken in pakistan......

the guy was either an indian hindi speaker.....if he was pakistani, then he was not from saraiki area.....perhaps more around central pakistani punjab.....who, apparently, was very well trained in hindi accent (i don't know any urdu or punjabi speaker in pakistan who can do such a good hindi accent).......either he was indian or he practiced a lot of hindi......

shankar #: "Out of curiosity, is an Indian muslim able to migrate to Pakistan today, if he/she wants to?"

good to see some sanity in this theatre of revengeful emotional mayhem.......trust me, some day everyone will realize that what you (and i, and a tiny minority of others) have been saying, makes sense......quite a few people are already starting to come around, after having exhuasted all doors of violence.....

...anyone can migrate to pakistan....much like anyone can migrate to india or usa....

i am now going in and out of india and am working regularly with indian companies.....i have taken joint indian-pakistani teams on projects in both countries....which include indian muslims.....

indian muslims can migrate to pakistan......quite a few indian girls get married to their relative in pakistan, and migrate.....and live, primarily, in karachi....everyone i have met in karachi, has some relatives in india......

however, i don't think most indian muslims will migrate to pakistan......for the simple reason that things in pakistan aren't all that great either...........it would be much better for them to migrate to usa, uk, dubai etc.....pakisatni muslims are, themselves, migarting to these places......why not go straight there from india.....

they will get far more security, and being part of the majority, will not live in political fear......they will be able to actually discriminate against other minorities, if they want......

however, the trip will not be able to compensate them economically.....the average pakistani muslim is quite a bit better off than the average indian muslim (though, now, less better off than the average indian hindu).....however, the difference isn't enough for someone to leave everything in india and take the risk of starting all over in pakistan......

also, pakistan will only want indians who can contribute ecnomically to pakistan....and those indian muslims (doctors, engineers etc.) are fine in india......

the people that i feel for the most in this whole india pakistani historical situation are indian muslims.....indian hindus will be fine.......pakistani muslims will be fine (provided the country holds up economically)....ditto for bangladeshi muslims....even pakistani hindus will be fine (provided economy is ok), since there are too few of them to be considered a threat...

...indian muslims, i am afriad are stuck.....they were, unfairly left on their own by jinnah when pakistan was created....the well-off muslims of their region left for pakistan, thereby leaving them vulnerable.......they lost whatever clout they would have had, had muslims been 33% of a joint india......

now, they are asked to ditch their loyalty to islam and prove their loyalty to india......which in the current indo-pak-(bangladesh) and world situation can be a contradiction.....

i regularly work with senior successful indian IT people....some of the few, who are muslims, have confided their fear, openly, to me......i can see their defensiveness every time something like this happen (even though they have nothing to do with it)......

while pakistanis may be on edge, if this turns out to be a pakistani operation, as they don't want a war with india....indian muslims must be on an even thinner edge, if this turns out to be an indian muslim operation.....pakistanis will be able to defend themselves in case of a war.....who will defend the indian muslims (other than arundhati roy and mahesh bhatt).......

and, for whatever reasons, i am afraid, they are not doing well in india....i meet more indian christians in senior IT positions than indian muslims........even though christians in india are a fraction of muslims......

i still argue that the best situation for everyone in south asia....specifically for indian muslims......is open borders, a joint ecnonomic union, like europe......where nationalism gets diluted as does ideology, and city and local loyalties take precedence......this requires some geographical issues (like kashmir) to be resolved......

overbearing nationalists exist, primarily on the indian side, and overbearing ideologue exist primarily on the pakistani side (though now they are emerging on the indian side)......since pakistan is not doing too well now, the overbearing nationalists on the pakistani side has died down (or has migrated to michigan)......this dying down is a good thing.......

anyways, there are two groups, i am afraid, in south asia, for whom i see a tough future - indian muslims and pakistani ahmedis....

Dawa, I have on TV, and family members heard it first hand. They are not Urdu speakers.

BJ,

Muthu miaN, you have been listening too much to that Yasser. Please keep in mind that support to the khilafat movement was in 1910 or so -- and whether or not it turned out to have been a mistake, through it Gandhiji was at the time trying to build bridges between Hindus and Muslims to agitate against the British together -- unlike some other leaders who were trying to drive wedges between communities.


I thought of passing this one so as not to spoil this board with stuff about Gandhi. Gandhiji no doubt is a great man, but the actions he took like the stupid Khilafat movement did more harm in the long run than good. I think you should read something about Khilafat movement (which BTW was in the 1920s) before we can have meaningful discussion in some other board. I try to listen to many different points of view before reaching a conclusion. I suggest you do the same.

Infact anyone who have heard terrorists, they are speaking Karari Urdu means that of Delhi/Lucknow/Hyderabad/Aurangabad/Bhopal which includes mostly like Arai Bhaiyya , Kahai ko Bolta Rai , Piyarai, Dayya rai Dayya

Farid Kot

The indian media/officals are so much blind in blamming Pakistan that they not even know Punjabi accent belongs to some large area/city or belt instead of some poor village which most of the people never heard before.

Multan,Bahawalnagar,Bahawalpur,Kahnewal,Dera Ghazi khan is known as Sariki belt and thier accent as Saraiki Punjabi, a very sweet accent of Punjabi.

So Farid Kot being in this belt have if any accent than its Saraiki , Can ever accent be related to any unknown village.In my whole life never heard of any Farid Koti Punjabi !

Out of curiosity, is an Indian muslim able to migrate to Pakistan today, if he/she wants to?

If I'm an Indian Muslim & I'm disillusioned with my parents' decision not to go over to Pakistan at the time of partition, could I exercise that right today?

I'm curious to know just how many disillusioned & discriminated Indian Muslims want to migrate to Pakistan, where they feel they have more freedom & less discrimination?

My previous post got truncated for some reason, here is the original :)

Shoaib, thanks for an honest and heartwarming article.

I have been following the interacts on the other thread about the Mumbai attack, and have been dismayed by the quality of the discussion; it reveals the narrow-minded, stagnant and biased thinking that so many of us in the sub-continent have got used to.

In contrast, the interacts on this thread have been of a distinctly better quality (some notable exceptions notwithstanding), and I hope that discussions on Chowk gravitate in this direction rather than the other.

Every section in society (be it Indians/pakistanis/hindus/muslims) has its own set of problems, and I believe these can be surmounted by the right initiative, leadership (that can deal with problems head-on and not beat around the bush), mutual understanding and collaboration. It is sickening to read posts that deliberately spew venom on one particular section; we can do without sweeping generalizations such as these, at least on Chowk:
(a) horrible hindus, who are hell bent on persecuting muslims
(b) evil muslims, who fall in one of two categories: terrorists and terror-supporters.

And then there are the awfully boring posts that dig out select stuff from the Koran or Hindu scriptures, or those amazingly insightful articles from here and there, in an attempt to prove a point (which would again be one of these generalizations).

At this perilous time in our nations' histories, I believe each of us (especially if you are a parent) has a great responsibity in teaching one's children the right things and love/respect for humanity (which I believe are common to all religions) and not filling their minds with the garbage that threatens us today. 18-year olds that kill innocents and blow themselves up because they have been promised heaven by doing so, should have known better than to fall into the trap. So should the goondas that went around damaging churches in Orissa recently. Much of the blame for this should fall on their parents, elders, caretakers and advisors.

I hope, God willing, that I will fulfill at least this responsibility of mine.

evil muslims, who fall in one of two categories: terrorists and terror-supporters.

And then there are the awfully boring posts that dig out select stuff from the Koran or Hindu scriptures, or those amazingly insightful articles from here and there, in an attempt to prove a point (which would again be one of these generalizations).

At this perilous time in our nations' histories, I believe each of us (especially if you are a parent) has a great responsibity in teaching one's children the right things and love/respect for humanity (which I believe are common to all religions) and not filling their minds with the garbage that threatens us today. 18-year olds that kill innocents and blow themselves up because they have been promised heaven by doing so, should have known better than to fall into the trap. So should the goondas that went around damaging churches in Orissa recently. Much of the blame for this should fall on their parents, elders, caretakers and advisors.

I hope, God willing, that I will fulfill at least this responsibility of mine.

Bheenga, are you insulting Islam?

[[That’s not to say that India is perfect. To get a house in Gurgaon I had to lie about my religion. I claimed I was Christian, playing up the similarity between ‘Daniel’ and ‘Daniyal’. People would not let out their house to a person named Shoaib Mohammed Daniyal.
But for that will you kill 130 people. For that will you hold hundreds more hostage? For that will you destroy a city?]]

If you were a Hindu, you would have been labeled dhimmi and article would have a tag dhimmitude.

Since you are a muslim, it is reverse dhimmitude... and you are a dhimmi.

Apply for memebership here.
http://www.dhimmitude.org/

Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide - this idiot is concerned about the challenge of Hindutva. Hey dumbass, is Pakistan a basketcase because of Hindutva groups as well? Maybe it was RSS guys killing Muslims in Iraq?

This RR of Borivilli Express is on the other board as well. Every human development indicator on hich Muslims lag behind in India is also where they lag behind in the UK relative to other minorities as well.

All Asian minorities moves to the UK AROUND THE SAME TIME. All are immigrants admittd to the same country, same socio-economic opportunity. Yet, the Paki Muslim is at the bottom of every indicator on their social development index. The Indian Muslim is ahead only of the Paki Muslim whereas the Hindus and Skhs compete with Goras. Why? Because the Muslim across the world is pretty much a loser stuck in a loser's victim mentality. The Muslim will keep his woman at home and his children will be uneducated louts. The oddd Muslim who does well will e considered a sell out / Uncle Tom. The Muslim in South Asia will carry on abou the glory of the damn Mughals but will not shift his arse to do some intellectual discovery, some economical empowerment. Instead, much easier to be consumed with envy and talk about discrimination.

The limit was listening to Farzana Versey bitching about Premji not contributing to Urdu Medium. Classic...A Gujju Muslim blming a Kannadiga Muslim for not contributing to a North Indian language.