A Just War?

Who added the question mark to the title ? Was it chowk staff because they couldn't really let an article asking for war against Pakistan be published without questioning it ?

Good case Mr Vasan, but a war though perfectly justified may not be necessary, if we do the following:

http://www.chowk.com/unplugged/t/60906

"Permanent , publicly declared , open and active enmity with Pakistan until the day it's character as Jihadi state is ended. That in a single sentence should be our policy"

This piece better not have been written by arjun69 aka arJ. Edgar Hoover...

The Times of India -- today
India to share Mumbai evidence once probe ends
13 Dec 2008, 1149 hrs IST, PTI


NEW DELHI: Voicing scepticism over Pakistan acting decisively against terrorists operating from its soil, Pranab Mukherjee has said such elements have been "let off" in the past after some initial action.

"Therefore we shall have to see whether these (actions by Pakistan) are taken to their logical conclusion," he said, asking Islamabad to ensure that the terror infrastructure is dismantled completely.

Reacting to Islamabad's demand for evidence of the involvement of the Pakistan-based elements in the Mumbai attacks, Mukherjee said India was ready to do so but not at this juncture when investigations were yet to be concluded.

"We can make available whatever evidences we have. In this case, we are also investigating, we have not come to any conclusion. Therefore at this juncture, perhaps, it would be premature to share the evidences," Mukherjee told a news channel.

He refused to comment on the current crackdown on terror groups in Pakistan, while noting that similar actions took place in the aftermath of the attack on Parliament in 2001.

"Almost similar actions were taken at the initial stage when the international pressure was mounted. After that it was let off," he said, adding that he was "waiting to see" that these steps are pursued seriously.

"I am waiting to see ... the infrastructure facilities available to terrorists are totally dismantled and the outlawed and banned organisations do not reappear in their new name with the new signboards but with the same old faces."

His remarks follow Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's statement in Parliament on Thursday that the international community has to be galvanised into "dealing sternly and effectively with the epicentre of terrorism, which is located in Pakistan."

Mukherjee said the "non-state actors" Pakistan has been referring to as behind the terror attacks "live and function" within the territory of that country.

"That is why, repeatedly, I said elements from Pakistan. That is a phrase I have used meticulously. I would not like to be more specific unless definitive conclusion is arrived at by the investigating agencies," he said.

The minister's comments come amid a crackdown launched by Pakistan against the Jamaat-ud Dawa, the front organisation of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) blamed for the Mumbai attacks, after the UN Security Council designated the outfit as a terrorist group.

Mukherjee noted that in response to the demarche issued by India, Pakistan said it was considering "various aspects" on action to be taken and planning to send a high-level delegation here.

In the demarche, he said he has sought action against two categories of persons -- those who have committed crime in India and have taken shelter in Pakistan, and Pakistani citizens indulging in terrorist activities in India.

"Some people who have committed crime in India and have taken shelter in Pakistan like Dawood Ibrahim. We are asking the Pakistan authorities to hand him over to Indian authorities so that he can be tried as per Indian laws here.

"There are persons who are Pakistan citizens, who are indulging in terrorist activities in India. Let them be arrested and tried as per Pakistan law," Mukherjee said.

The minister said he did not understand the difficulty Pakistan has in handing over Masood Azhar to India. "He was in Indian custody. We had to hand over him to hijackers of the Indian plane in Kandahar. He is available in Pakistan. He is seen on television screens in Pakistan. I do not know what difficulty Pakistan has (in handing him over)."

"Pakistan government did not demand his (Azhar's) return. Hijackers had demanded that you release him. (If) Pakistan government cannot hand him over to us what is the point in keeping him under house arrest," Mukherjee asked.

On whether Pakistan has sought consular access to Ajmal Amir Iman, the lone surviving terrorist arrested during the Mumbai attacks, he said India has not received any official request.

"To my knowledge it has not reached me. I do not know whether it has reached to the lower level. I will find it out," Mukherjee said.

"Are they saying the man is a Pakistani citizen. I do not know. Have they claimed the dead bodies, I do not know," he said, pointing out that "everything is appearing in the media."

Mukherjee asserted that the government will take all steps to protect the territorial integrity of the country but ruled out war as a solution to the problem.

Asked on how long would India wait, he said "it depends on how fast, how quickly Pakistan responds or whether they respond at all or not. Therefore it will not be possible for me to indicate any time frame right now."

On the Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism, Mukherjee said four meetings had taken place since its establishment but "nothing has been produced."

Asked whether the mechanisms have failed, he said "I do not want to come to any conclusion. But I think, whatever they have committed, whatever they are to do let them do it first."

Mukherjee noted that Pakistan had twice given the assurance at the highest level of not allowing use of its territory to carry out activities against India.

"We hope and expect that the new dispensation which has come in Pakistan through democratic means, will fulfil their commitment. That is our hope and expectation," he said.

Asked whether it was difficult to deal with several centres of power in Pakistan, Mukherjee said "It may be difficult but I have no option. I cannot change the internal mechanism of Pakistan."

On Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's article in an American newspaper, he said it speaks of the agony of a person who himself is a victim of terrorist act.

Contending that everybody will have sympathy with him but his sentiments would remain just the same if Pakistan does not follow "words by proper action".

"It is not a question of a person or individual... What role he plays as president of Pakistan to fulfil the commitment he gave to our prime minister is important. Words must be followed by proper action. It will remain mere sentiment (if there is no action). It will produce nothing," Mukherjee said.

Mukherjee also made it clear that he was not interested in having a trial by media on the terror attacks.

"These are matters of investigation. After investigation, the matter is taken to court. Due process of law and procedure established by law should follow.

"Therefore, I am not in a position to share any of the information. It is for the media to find out," he said.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/12/mumbai-arundhati-roy

Not many in the world are opposed to india finishing off the center of all terror. The 9/11 ones to london bombers to the mumbai ones have been traced to pakistan.

The question is only one of timing. India should resize pakistan, but this is not the time. The NWFP will have to be free and and the paki troops should withdraw. Then karachi should be in flames. It may take a couple of years and india will strike.

The world will be free of that monstrocity created by TNT. TNT is comparable to the ideology of that man with the funny mush in europe, the solution as before is in resizing.

The first step was dome in 1971. It has to be completed. It is the ideology of TNT, and one has to deal with it at that level. Those photos of that man should be treated the same way

I wish india would try something like that. The size of defense forces in pakistan will swell from a million to 160 million. Wahabis and secularists all, will be united against the enemy. :)

Although, this new found cocky indian attitude is largely a farce as it does not have the guts required to attack another sovereign nation. I find these types of threats amusing. India knows certainly better then any other country in the world, that Pakistan isn't Palestine and Indian isn't Israel.

Pakistan Zindabad.

"If it does not do one or the other in a reasonable length of time, India must ignore any internal arguments for 'pragmatism' or 'proportionate' action and punish Pakistan as a whole".

What kind of Crap is this?....First of all, you injuns should stop blabering like attacking Pakistan is going to be like a walk in the park. Second, you injuns must understand that India is not USA and Pakistan in not a rag tag country like Iraq or Afghanistan. You might be able to start the war but you are not going to be able to finish it. Attacking Pakistan will galvinzed the enitre Pakistani nation, each and every Pakistani will make it his mission in life to destory india. Go ahead and attack them, you will be doing them a favor by waking them from the deep slumber they are in now and watch what happens.

In the event of a war between the two South Asian neighbors matters will quickly get out of hand and it could quickly esclate into a full scale nuclear exchange. The penalty of procrastination is heavy so both parties will feel compelled to strike while they still have maximum retaliatory capacity left. This is particularly true for Pakistan.

Pakistan can not stave off the tide of a full scale conventional Indian attack for longer than 48 to 72 hours. In the event of a forceful Indian conventional attack a 'first strike' strategy is an absolute given. The so-called 'hair-trigger' defense doctrine initially calls for use of tactical nuclear weapons used against invading Indian troop concentrations ON PAKISTANI SOIL. Critics of this school of thought point out that there simply isn't the surplus capacity to do so and still have a credible strategic deterrence left in place. Therefore the initial posture HAS to be M. A. D. If that does transpire, Pakistan will be completely annhialated, while India will be extremely devastated also. About 30 million Pakistanis and about 150 million Indians could die. But those will be the lucky ones. The living will envy the dead.

The penis wavers in both India and Pakistan will have nothing left at which to wave their shrivelled up Lullys.

"If it does not do one or the other in a reasonable length of time, India must ignore any internal arguments for 'pragmatism' or 'proportionate' action and punish Pakistan as a whole."

The culprits of Mumbay attacks must be caught and brought to justice. There is no question about it. But what the author is saying is something like this. 'India must ignore any internal arguments and proceed towards the possible annihilation of couple of million human beings'.

Maybe it will be a lot better if we just focus on identifying the culprits, sharing the intelligence, and bringing the people responsible for the attack to justice.

Re: # 8

Where is all this bravado coming from? You should all be scared of a full scale war just like I am.

Nadeem, a military attack is unnecessary but from India's point of view, all Pakistanis should be united and no distinctions should be made among them.

The reason for that is that those Pakistanis who do not attack India have little sway over those who do, and merely act as a fig leaf.

So ideally, India should treat all Pakistanis alike (which also gives Pakistanis an opportunity to join hands and become one) and attempt to undermine all of Pakistan so the entire support base for Pakistani terrorist infrastructure can be deprived of state support. With Pakistani economic situation being dire, India should make a sustained and vigorous international effort to economically strangle the Pakistani state by raising its costs in as many creative ways as possible. Of course, Pakistani state should, must, and will reciprocate (if it doesn't do so already.)

Whether Indians would take that step is another matter.

All you Injuns must understand this very well. Unstable Pakistan is going to be 10 times worse of a headache for India than it is now. If Pakistan destabilizes, the rule of law is going to go away (whatever left of it)and guess what? The Radical elements will have a free hand and it will spread so deeply from Pakistan into India, that you Indians would wish that you never have been born. So the whole planning and wishful thinking of economically choking Pakistan would play right into the hand of extremist elements who are ready to take their pound of flash from India. India is doing a fire dance on the Powder keg, if it goes off, just because you have accidentally set your tail on fire, you won't have IBMs and HPs and Microsoft coming over to Bharat and investing their anymore.

#13 by Nadeem_Shahzad

When Indians are friendly (or at least trying to be), you Pakis take that as a sign of weakness and try stepping on our toes at every opportunity you get. When we're mad at you, you start blackmailing us by saying the nukes will destroy us both or that if Pakistan is destabilized, radical elements will pour into India and make it a hellhole. Nice try, but it ain't working. India is like an Elephant; patient to the extreme levels, but when it runs out of it, it will be unstoppable. Luckily for you, India's enormous reservoir of patience hasn't run out just yet, but you can rest assured when it does, none of the doomsday scenarios you conjure up will hold it back.

Nadeem bhai,

.....The Radical elements will have a free hand and it will spread so deeply from Pakistan into India, that you Indians would wish that you never have been born......

That is by no means the only outcome possible. The other option of course is that India can use some monetary incentives to persuade these "radical elements" to direct their jihad against fellow Pakis. And do remember these "radical elements" have been friends with us Hindoos since the Khilafat days.

Regards

Thanks Majumdar bhai for reminding me of that famous interview of Pakistan's founder with Margaret Bourke White in which he said (of course I'm paraphrasing) Pakistan, as the new world's premier rentier state, would be willing to sell itself to the highest bidder. If Indians can shell out the Rupee, Pakis would be willing to kill their brothers.