Cathartic Militarism
Faris Kasim January 1, 2009
#35 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 27, 2009 8:19:38 am
#34 Posted by Goldfinger
"in '65 your airforce was decimated (as verified by the famous American ace/aviator, Gen. Chuck Yeager in his book"
Excerpts from globalsecurity.org
Overall, the war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.
Pakistan was rudely shocked by the reaction of the United States to the war. Judging the matter to be largely Pakistan s fault, the United States not only refused to come to Pakistan s aid under the terms of the Agreement of Cooperation, but issued a statement declaring its neutrality while also cutting off military supplies. The Pakistanis were embittered at what they considered a friend's betrayal, and the experience taught them to avoid relying on any single source of support. For its part, the United States was disillusioned by a war in which both sides used United States-supplied equipment
As for Kargil, the Paki rats had sneaked into the territory and were at an advantageous position. However, at the cost of high casualty, they were either killed or driven away. Pakis did not have courage to retrieve their wounded and dead ones nor had the courage to acknowledge and accept their dead soldiers.
Come out of your madarrassa history and open your eyes to the stark realities.
"in '65 your airforce was decimated (as verified by the famous American ace/aviator, Gen. Chuck Yeager in his book"
Excerpts from globalsecurity.org
Overall, the war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.
Pakistan was rudely shocked by the reaction of the United States to the war. Judging the matter to be largely Pakistan s fault, the United States not only refused to come to Pakistan s aid under the terms of the Agreement of Cooperation, but issued a statement declaring its neutrality while also cutting off military supplies. The Pakistanis were embittered at what they considered a friend's betrayal, and the experience taught them to avoid relying on any single source of support. For its part, the United States was disillusioned by a war in which both sides used United States-supplied equipment
As for Kargil, the Paki rats had sneaked into the territory and were at an advantageous position. However, at the cost of high casualty, they were either killed or driven away. Pakis did not have courage to retrieve their wounded and dead ones nor had the courage to acknowledge and accept their dead soldiers.
Come out of your madarrassa history and open your eyes to the stark realities.
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#34 Posted by Goldfinger on January 22, 2009 6:28:32 pm
Re: # 32 truthseeker is being fallacious again...you said: "Now, please come forth and explain how you PAKIS were kicked through your balls MASSIVE THREE TIMES, and again in a RAT-KILL operation in Kargil. Now don't say you won in 1965. Your text books may have even taught you that Gen Niazi had led his NAMARD army to India to inflict economical injury on this country."
Except for 1971 when stupidity and bad leadership led to internal conditions for the creation of Bangladesh, a big loss happened, I must concede...nothing to the credit of the banyas, it was just a cake walk...however otherwise in 1948 a big chunk of Kashmir was wrangled out of your fists...in '65 your airforce was decimated (as verified by the famous American ace/aviator, Gen. Chuck Yeager in his book)...and in Kargil it was indeed a rat shoot as followers of Rat God and Kali were shot out and decimated like sitting rats, until your crying and international pressure made the Paks to vacate their positions...as for jingoism of your politicians...please take it as all bark and no bite...only an utterly stupid person could think that there could be any victors in a nuclear war.
Except for 1971 when stupidity and bad leadership led to internal conditions for the creation of Bangladesh, a big loss happened, I must concede...nothing to the credit of the banyas, it was just a cake walk...however otherwise in 1948 a big chunk of Kashmir was wrangled out of your fists...in '65 your airforce was decimated (as verified by the famous American ace/aviator, Gen. Chuck Yeager in his book)...and in Kargil it was indeed a rat shoot as followers of Rat God and Kali were shot out and decimated like sitting rats, until your crying and international pressure made the Paks to vacate their positions...as for jingoism of your politicians...please take it as all bark and no bite...only an utterly stupid person could think that there could be any victors in a nuclear war.
#33 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 22, 2009 5:44:33 am
#29 Posted by Goldfinger
"Army : Indian soldier fatally shoots 6 colleagues"
Yes. True. Soldiers work under terrible stress under hostile conditions. It is possible that this stress has taken its toll.
But you have to point it out? Do you know 300 soldiers, properly trained and indoctrinated by your noble army, surrendered to some 18 to 20 pervert talibs?
"Army : Indian soldier fatally shoots 6 colleagues"
Yes. True. Soldiers work under terrible stress under hostile conditions. It is possible that this stress has taken its toll.
But you have to point it out? Do you know 300 soldiers, properly trained and indoctrinated by your noble army, surrendered to some 18 to 20 pervert talibs?
#32 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 22, 2009 5:36:29 am
#30 Posted by Goldfinger
"the kicking India got in the nether regions in their shameful war of 1962?"
Yes. It was a Himalayan blunder. That is why we do not mind your badmouthing Nehru to any extent. He did spoil India's relations with China by taunting them over Tibet. If he was careful then, China would never have been inimical to India. And Islamic Bomb would never have come into existence. They propped up you PAKIS only to spite us, and not because they loved you. Otherwise you would not have any aukaat to stand before India.
OK, I have pleased you with my confession. Now, please come forth and explain how you PAKIS were kicked through your balls MASSIVE THREE TIMES, and again in a RAT-KILL operation in Kargil. Now don't say you won in 1965. Your text books may have even taught you that Gen Niazi had led his NAMARD army to India to inflict economical injury on this country.
Do you remember what our then defence minister George Fernandis had said? India has enough nuclear weapon to desroy entire Pakiland FOUR TIMES OVER. He meant it. We don't keep bloating the way you Pakis do that you have (stolen) nuclear weapon. Our Abdul Kalaam is loved and reverred in India unlike your pirate A Q Khan.
"the kicking India got in the nether regions in their shameful war of 1962?"
Yes. It was a Himalayan blunder. That is why we do not mind your badmouthing Nehru to any extent. He did spoil India's relations with China by taunting them over Tibet. If he was careful then, China would never have been inimical to India. And Islamic Bomb would never have come into existence. They propped up you PAKIS only to spite us, and not because they loved you. Otherwise you would not have any aukaat to stand before India.
OK, I have pleased you with my confession. Now, please come forth and explain how you PAKIS were kicked through your balls MASSIVE THREE TIMES, and again in a RAT-KILL operation in Kargil. Now don't say you won in 1965. Your text books may have even taught you that Gen Niazi had led his NAMARD army to India to inflict economical injury on this country.
Do you remember what our then defence minister George Fernandis had said? India has enough nuclear weapon to desroy entire Pakiland FOUR TIMES OVER. He meant it. We don't keep bloating the way you Pakis do that you have (stolen) nuclear weapon. Our Abdul Kalaam is loved and reverred in India unlike your pirate A Q Khan.
#31 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 22, 2009 5:14:27 am
#25 Posted by gauss
I am amused at your inference that I am jayp
"they should be offloaded as well just because it's hard to tell whether the former is an israeli soldier, or the latter hates muslims?"
It is not uncommon to resort to these actions for any country, more so, if that particular creed has been, in the past (or present) involved in terrorist or antinational activities in the country under reference.
Once bitten and twice shy, America would not mind (perhaps) to go to any extent to ensure that the guy moving around in their country does not create trouble for them. I have myself witnessed in my own country, when sikh terrorism was at its height, a perfect gentleman with tuban was subjected to additional security scrutiny. While we were upset about his humiliation, the guy did not seem sad at all. He said he had to give this small price for what his country cousins were doing.
"'tent clad' again with the bad-mouting of another race"
Sorry. I do have aversion to this kind of dressing habits not for any religious consideration but because their presence in the crowd or public places/buses creates nauseating atmosphere. You know middle/lower middle class muslims normally take bath only once a week. This, supplemented by their eating habits and excessive perspiration in a warm country like India (owing to their unventilated dress) makes them stink.
Another reason for my aversion to this dress is that it is forced on them by their parents/men. I say this with conviction because I have seen many muslim girls going to
college leave their house in this tent and go to the college dormitory and remove this and attend classes in their usual shelwar/kamiz, and put it on again while going home.
Third, in most of the terrorist activities, women in tent are used as arms carriers for the terrorists.
"that was NEVER proven and speaking in another language (which is very
common in the U.S. and europe) is not a pretext for any such thing"
Please don't speak to suggest that I off-loaded those muslims. I was just giving my opinion to what had been posted in the blog. Blogs are meant to give opinions aren't they?
"since you did get pretty angry after my comments about jayp, "
Let put it this way. You said,
"you must be blind and retarded. here, let me educate you out of retardation"
You used three slangs in two small sentences. You were referring to #12. What did jayp do to deserve your puke?
This is the common mentality of an average Pakistani. You hit somebody and you are doing your islamic duty. Somebody hits you in retaliation, then that is BLATANT HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.
I am amused at your inference that I am jayp
"they should be offloaded as well just because it's hard to tell whether the former is an israeli soldier, or the latter hates muslims?"
It is not uncommon to resort to these actions for any country, more so, if that particular creed has been, in the past (or present) involved in terrorist or antinational activities in the country under reference.
Once bitten and twice shy, America would not mind (perhaps) to go to any extent to ensure that the guy moving around in their country does not create trouble for them. I have myself witnessed in my own country, when sikh terrorism was at its height, a perfect gentleman with tuban was subjected to additional security scrutiny. While we were upset about his humiliation, the guy did not seem sad at all. He said he had to give this small price for what his country cousins were doing.
"'tent clad' again with the bad-mouting of another race"
Sorry. I do have aversion to this kind of dressing habits not for any religious consideration but because their presence in the crowd or public places/buses creates nauseating atmosphere. You know middle/lower middle class muslims normally take bath only once a week. This, supplemented by their eating habits and excessive perspiration in a warm country like India (owing to their unventilated dress) makes them stink.
Another reason for my aversion to this dress is that it is forced on them by their parents/men. I say this with conviction because I have seen many muslim girls going to
college leave their house in this tent and go to the college dormitory and remove this and attend classes in their usual shelwar/kamiz, and put it on again while going home.
Third, in most of the terrorist activities, women in tent are used as arms carriers for the terrorists.
"that was NEVER proven and speaking in another language (which is very
common in the U.S. and europe) is not a pretext for any such thing"
Please don't speak to suggest that I off-loaded those muslims. I was just giving my opinion to what had been posted in the blog. Blogs are meant to give opinions aren't they?
"since you did get pretty angry after my comments about jayp, "
Let put it this way. You said,
"you must be blind and retarded. here, let me educate you out of retardation"
You used three slangs in two small sentences. You were referring to #12. What did jayp do to deserve your puke?
This is the common mentality of an average Pakistani. You hit somebody and you are doing your islamic duty. Somebody hits you in retaliation, then that is BLATANT HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.
#30 Posted by Goldfinger on January 22, 2009 2:28:52 am
Re: # 1 nkg
"Not true. Indian missile and defence program is mainly against China. Pakistan is treated as assistant of China...."
nkg...juvenile delinquent...you don't remember the kicking India got in the nether regions in their shameful war of 1962? Indians were in a race to see who could run away faster in the face of Chinese onslaught, in their frenzy leaving behind all their weaponry intact...india vs China no-contest!
"Not true. Indian missile and defence program is mainly against China. Pakistan is treated as assistant of China...."
nkg...juvenile delinquent...you don't remember the kicking India got in the nether regions in their shameful war of 1962? Indians were in a race to see who could run away faster in the face of Chinese onslaught, in their frenzy leaving behind all their weaponry intact...india vs China no-contest!
#29 Posted by Goldfinger on January 22, 2009 2:18:41 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_re_as/as_india_soldiers_killed
Army : Indian soldier fatally shoots 6 colleagues
By WASBIR HUSSAIN, Associated Press Writer Wasbir Hussain, Associated Press Writer – Thu Jan 22, 12:42 am ET
GAUHATI, India – An Indian paramilitary soldier shot and killed six of his colleagues with an assault rifle, then fled their military camp in a remote and dangerous outpost in northeastern India, the military said Thursday.
Officials are investigating the Wednesday night shooting and have launched a manhunt for the soldier, a member of the Assam Rifles paramilitary troop whose name was not immediately released, said Maj. Shamsher Jung, an Assam Rifles spokesman.
"The trooper first trained his assault rifle on a senior officer following an argument, killing him. When five fellow troopers rushed in after hearing gunshots, the berserk soldier sprayed bullets on them," said Jung.
It was not clear what prompted the killings in Ukhrul district, 55 miles (90 kilometers) northeast of the state capital of Imphal, Jung said.
It was the sixth time in three years that a soldier posted to the insurgency-wracked state of Manipur has fired on other Indian forces.
Violence between fellow soldiers is not unusual in India and is often attributed to stress and exhaustion after long postings.
Manipur, one of India's most remote and dangerous regions, can be an especially grim assignment.
The Assam Rifles are fighting separatist rebels who straddle the heavily wooded and porous India-Myanmar border. More than 10,000 people have died in separatist violence over the past decade.
The rebels accuse authorities of exploiting the area's natural resources while doing little for the indigenous people — most of whom are ethnically closer to Burma and China than to the rest of India.
Army : Indian soldier fatally shoots 6 colleagues
By WASBIR HUSSAIN, Associated Press Writer Wasbir Hussain, Associated Press Writer – Thu Jan 22, 12:42 am ET
GAUHATI, India – An Indian paramilitary soldier shot and killed six of his colleagues with an assault rifle, then fled their military camp in a remote and dangerous outpost in northeastern India, the military said Thursday.
Officials are investigating the Wednesday night shooting and have launched a manhunt for the soldier, a member of the Assam Rifles paramilitary troop whose name was not immediately released, said Maj. Shamsher Jung, an Assam Rifles spokesman.
"The trooper first trained his assault rifle on a senior officer following an argument, killing him. When five fellow troopers rushed in after hearing gunshots, the berserk soldier sprayed bullets on them," said Jung.
It was not clear what prompted the killings in Ukhrul district, 55 miles (90 kilometers) northeast of the state capital of Imphal, Jung said.
It was the sixth time in three years that a soldier posted to the insurgency-wracked state of Manipur has fired on other Indian forces.
Violence between fellow soldiers is not unusual in India and is often attributed to stress and exhaustion after long postings.
Manipur, one of India's most remote and dangerous regions, can be an especially grim assignment.
The Assam Rifles are fighting separatist rebels who straddle the heavily wooded and porous India-Myanmar border. More than 10,000 people have died in separatist violence over the past decade.
The rebels accuse authorities of exploiting the area's natural resources while doing little for the indigenous people — most of whom are ethnically closer to Burma and China than to the rest of India.
#28 Posted by Raha48 on January 22, 2009 12:59:23 am
nkg and jay p. your comments and conversations remind me of those losers who used to come to mIRC, desperate to find women. They would call people names, thinking that would make them look cool and pretty girl would talk to them nicely....umm probably didnt work then...and am not too sure its working now is it??....
There is no difference of appearance between what you call a normal muslim and as gauss points out an orthodox one for the very reason is that being religious or believeing in your faith SHOULDNT make you a target to airport security....
I bet you that both of you would speak out against racial profiling when someone would suspect a black kid without evidence in a crime scene or a sikh wearing a turban at the american border...
I seriously suggest both of you grow up a little and learn to read before you talk.
There is no difference of appearance between what you call a normal muslim and as gauss points out an orthodox one for the very reason is that being religious or believeing in your faith SHOULDNT make you a target to airport security....
I bet you that both of you would speak out against racial profiling when someone would suspect a black kid without evidence in a crime scene or a sikh wearing a turban at the american border...
I seriously suggest both of you grow up a little and learn to read before you talk.
#27 Posted by Raha48 on January 22, 2009 12:22:54 am
nkg and jay p. your comments and conversations remind me of those losers who used to come to mIRC, desperate to find women. They would call people names, thinking that would make them look cool and pretty girls to talk to them nicely....umm probably didnt work then...and am not too sure its working now is it??....
There is no difference of appearance between what you call a normal muslim and as gauss points out an orthodox one for the very reason is that being religious or believeing in your faith SHOULDNT make you a target to airport security....
I bet you that both of you would speak out against racial profiling when someone would suspect a black kid without evidence in a crime scene or a sikh wearing a turban at the american border...
I seriously suggest both of you grow up a little and learn to read before you talk.
There is no difference of appearance between what you call a normal muslim and as gauss points out an orthodox one for the very reason is that being religious or believeing in your faith SHOULDNT make you a target to airport security....
I bet you that both of you would speak out against racial profiling when someone would suspect a black kid without evidence in a crime scene or a sikh wearing a turban at the american border...
I seriously suggest both of you grow up a little and learn to read before you talk.
#26 Posted by nkg on January 21, 2009 6:52:10 pm
Re: # 19
Raha8...
Islam's association with violence, terrorism etc. etc...( most probably for rightful reason) is widely accepted...So, if somebody wants to quarantine easily identifiable muslas, you should not blame them outrightly...
So many birds are culled during last 2 years merely out of suspicion that they might be infected with H5N1....
Raha8...
Islam's association with violence, terrorism etc. etc...( most probably for rightful reason) is widely accepted...So, if somebody wants to quarantine easily identifiable muslas, you should not blame them outrightly...
So many birds are culled during last 2 years merely out of suspicion that they might be infected with H5N1....
#25 Posted by gauss on January 21, 2009 10:08:41 am
#23, truth_seeker, wow is this jayp under another name, lets dismantle you as well then:
"1. Their appearance for that of die hard muslim. It is difficult to differentiate between a normal muslim and a terrorist muslim"
-So when i see hassidic-orthodox jews on kuwait airways, or jatt sikhs on Pakistan airways, then they should be offloaded as well just because it's hard to tell whether the former is an israeli soldier, or the latter hates muslims? (using your logic, or lack-off)..i hope you see the point
"2. There were some tent clad women in that gang, raising suspicion that there might be something hidden in it."
-'tent clad' again with the bad-mouting of another race, anyways when an Indian lady is wearing a sari, should she be offloaded as well then? I mean, racists have killed (poor) sikh guys because they "looked" like "terrorists," too bad you're sounding like one of them
"3. They were speaking some incomprehensible language interspersed with english word "BOMB""
-that was NEVER proven and speaking in another language (which is very common in the U.S. and europe) is not a pretext for any such thing (moron).
Americans can get pretty hysterical very easily. As another example, two guys were offloaded by an american airline at kansas city two-odd years ago just because someone wrote terrorists in the bathroom mirror...turns out they were both invited by Americans to raise money for a charity...
and i think you read post #20 wrong...sounds a lot like what jayp would do...since you did get pretty angry after my comments about jayp, hilarious how he (she or..maybe it) is using two covers...
"1. Their appearance for that of die hard muslim. It is difficult to differentiate between a normal muslim and a terrorist muslim"
-So when i see hassidic-orthodox jews on kuwait airways, or jatt sikhs on Pakistan airways, then they should be offloaded as well just because it's hard to tell whether the former is an israeli soldier, or the latter hates muslims? (using your logic, or lack-off)..i hope you see the point
"2. There were some tent clad women in that gang, raising suspicion that there might be something hidden in it."
-'tent clad' again with the bad-mouting of another race, anyways when an Indian lady is wearing a sari, should she be offloaded as well then? I mean, racists have killed (poor) sikh guys because they "looked" like "terrorists," too bad you're sounding like one of them
"3. They were speaking some incomprehensible language interspersed with english word "BOMB""
-that was NEVER proven and speaking in another language (which is very common in the U.S. and europe) is not a pretext for any such thing (moron).
Americans can get pretty hysterical very easily. As another example, two guys were offloaded by an american airline at kansas city two-odd years ago just because someone wrote terrorists in the bathroom mirror...turns out they were both invited by Americans to raise money for a charity...
and i think you read post #20 wrong...sounds a lot like what jayp would do...since you did get pretty angry after my comments about jayp, hilarious how he (she or..maybe it) is using two covers...
#24 Posted by gauss on January 21, 2009 9:55:44 am
#15 jayp, i have no problem arguing over a point with you, but when you say such things as "hatred imparted through by mothers milk" and " TNT children" then we all know (as we already do) that you have nothing meaningful to contribute, so don't act as if you EVER contribute anything here except picking on the Pakistani people
#14 jayp, the fight in swat is still going on right now...no idea what you're talking about (again)
#16 jayp, thats garbage, considering the fact that they never proved they said any such words, and considering the fact they offloaded another guy for wearing a t-shirt with arabic written on it (perfect example of ignorance). American's can get pretty hysterical easily
#14 jayp, the fight in swat is still going on right now...no idea what you're talking about (again)
#16 jayp, thats garbage, considering the fact that they never proved they said any such words, and considering the fact they offloaded another guy for wearing a t-shirt with arabic written on it (perfect example of ignorance). American's can get pretty hysterical easily
#23 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 21, 2009 6:47:17 am
#19 Posted by Raha48 on January 20, 2009 7:54:29 pm
"wow jayp...I didnt know that ignorance like yours still exists in this world..."
In your eagerness to belittle somebody, you have missed certain points mentioned in the post.
They were not unboarded for speaking in Urdu or any other Paki language, but for the following reasons.
1. Their appearance for that of die hard muslim. It is difficult to differentiate between a normal muslim and a terrorist muslim
2. There were some tent clad women in that gang, raising suspicion that there might be something hidden in it.
3. They were speaking some incomprehensible language interspersed with english word "BOMB"
Guys in muslim dress speaking about the bomb!
This would have happened to them in any country. Don't you know Pakis are strip-searched in America?
"wow jayp...I didnt know that ignorance like yours still exists in this world..."
In your eagerness to belittle somebody, you have missed certain points mentioned in the post.
They were not unboarded for speaking in Urdu or any other Paki language, but for the following reasons.
1. Their appearance for that of die hard muslim. It is difficult to differentiate between a normal muslim and a terrorist muslim
2. There were some tent clad women in that gang, raising suspicion that there might be something hidden in it.
3. They were speaking some incomprehensible language interspersed with english word "BOMB"
Guys in muslim dress speaking about the bomb!
This would have happened to them in any country. Don't you know Pakis are strip-searched in America?
#22 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 21, 2009 6:28:07 am
Re: # 13
gauss,
like a typical paki you are resorting to name calling rather than addressing the idea that I am putting forward.
Yes. He is going too far. This bloke must be having potful of shit for his break-fast
gauss,
like a typical paki you are resorting to name calling rather than addressing the idea that I am putting forward.
Yes. He is going too far. This bloke must be having potful of shit for his break-fast
#21 Posted by truth_seeker54 on January 21, 2009 2:52:52 am
#20 Posted by Raha48
Wow, so you won the 1965 war...is it?
Regarding 1971 war I have a photograph of your Gen. Niazi winning the war with 90000 paki POWs in front of a major Gen of Indian Army. Shall I post it here?
Your 14th August does not show your Kargil (mis)adventure with brave martyrs like Capt Shah Nawaz Khan? oh...I am sorry...they may not have his photographs since your Government did not accept his body.
Bottomline is... you don't have to fight to win the war. You want only clowns like Zaid Hamid to write poems in praise of the victory that was not yours!!!
By the way, why is it that after every victory, the head of the Government in Pakistan was booted out of office?
Wow, so you won the 1965 war...is it?
Regarding 1971 war I have a photograph of your Gen. Niazi winning the war with 90000 paki POWs in front of a major Gen of Indian Army. Shall I post it here?
Your 14th August does not show your Kargil (mis)adventure with brave martyrs like Capt Shah Nawaz Khan? oh...I am sorry...they may not have his photographs since your Government did not accept his body.
Bottomline is... you don't have to fight to win the war. You want only clowns like Zaid Hamid to write poems in praise of the victory that was not yours!!!
By the way, why is it that after every victory, the head of the Government in Pakistan was booted out of office?
#20 Posted by Raha48 on January 20, 2009 8:46:30 pm
Commenting on the article...
I think it a valid observation by the author.
I think the people do idealize the army...and tie it with loving the country. On 14th August, we would always watch plays like Nishan-e-Haider. Even the national anthem, played on PTV is filled with images of the achievements of the armed forces. We are taught in our textbooks abt the Pakistan army's great achievement of winning 1965 war, while the 1971 war is taught to us in vague pieces.
This ties in with the fact that this attitude of loving th army and considering them as our savior suits the military ...the importance of the army, war with India is something that is subconsciously and consciously engrained in us Pakistanis...usually this attitude easily justifies the funding, facilities that go to the army...I have been in numerous settings, where I have openly criticized the acres of land, personel thats given to army officers and have always heard the justification that they serve our country, they give their lives to protect us....these people deserve our gratitude and facilities.
I think it a valid observation by the author.
I think the people do idealize the army...and tie it with loving the country. On 14th August, we would always watch plays like Nishan-e-Haider. Even the national anthem, played on PTV is filled with images of the achievements of the armed forces. We are taught in our textbooks abt the Pakistan army's great achievement of winning 1965 war, while the 1971 war is taught to us in vague pieces.
This ties in with the fact that this attitude of loving th army and considering them as our savior suits the military ...the importance of the army, war with India is something that is subconsciously and consciously engrained in us Pakistanis...usually this attitude easily justifies the funding, facilities that go to the army...I have been in numerous settings, where I have openly criticized the acres of land, personel thats given to army officers and have always heard the justification that they serve our country, they give their lives to protect us....these people deserve our gratitude and facilities.
#19 Posted by Raha48 on January 20, 2009 7:54:29 pm
wow jayp...I didnt know that ignorance like yours still exists in this world...
"A sensible pakistani. What I had been telling for so long, a muslim in a burqua is asking to be treated differently and the people should oblige."
Seriously so next time, 8 people who speak in gernman, spanish, hindi should be kicked off a plane for doing so because they are different than those speaking english...By that logic anyone with a different accent than where the flight would be departing from should be arrested and put in jail cells...how dare they defy the rules of the Romans...
I mean I understand stupidity faraghat but this is just taking it to the next level
"A sensible pakistani. What I had been telling for so long, a muslim in a burqua is asking to be treated differently and the people should oblige."
Seriously so next time, 8 people who speak in gernman, spanish, hindi should be kicked off a plane for doing so because they are different than those speaking english...By that logic anyone with a different accent than where the flight would be departing from should be arrested and put in jail cells...how dare they defy the rules of the Romans...
I mean I understand stupidity faraghat but this is just taking it to the next level
#18 Posted by nkg on January 20, 2009 6:42:02 pm
Re: # 13
gauss...
Nehru and Gandhi have not created India...It was there for last 3000 years...
Anyhow Gandhi and Nehru are real rascals and you can bad mouth as much as possible...
Long live MAJ....Down Down Nehru and Gandhi...
gauss...
Nehru and Gandhi have not created India...It was there for last 3000 years...
Anyhow Gandhi and Nehru are real rascals and you can bad mouth as much as possible...
Long live MAJ....Down Down Nehru and Gandhi...
#17 Posted by Rollie on January 20, 2009 4:23:55 am
Isn't talk of a Hindu-Jewish conspiracy...a form of racism or prejudice?
Pakistan needs to be re-Indianized...it is time for the world community...to dismantle Pakistan, as we did South Africa...
Anyone agree?
Pakistan needs to be re-Indianized...it is time for the world community...to dismantle Pakistan, as we did South Africa...
Anyone agree?
#16 Posted by jayp on January 17, 2009 5:28:54 pm
Offloading of nine Muslims
Every time we read or see a news item, such as ‘Nine Muslim passengers removed from flight’ from Washington DC to Orlando, our sympathies tend to go towards the Muslims. But it is time we started thinking in a fair manner.
Imagine the nine men and women — men with long beards clad in shalwar-kameez and perhaps a turban too, and women wearing headscraves or in full black burqas with only eyes visible, all making noisy remarks in a domestic US flight in a language (Urdu) not understandable to other passengers. And one of those burqa-clad ladies using the word ‘bomb’ in her utterances. If I were in that plane, I would also point that out to the staff.
People of Pakistani origin have to start behaving when living in those western countries — when in Rome do as the Romans do. Having travelled a lot in North America and Europe, I greatly appreciate the patience and greatness of the people of those countries in accepting South Asians.
A message to all those of Pakistani origin living in those countries: if you cannot honour the norms of the country you live in, please return to your country.
MIAN A. AHMAD
Islamabad
///////////////
A sensible pakistani. What I had been telling for so long, a muslim in a burqua is asking to be treated differently and the people should oblige.
Every time we read or see a news item, such as ‘Nine Muslim passengers removed from flight’ from Washington DC to Orlando, our sympathies tend to go towards the Muslims. But it is time we started thinking in a fair manner.
Imagine the nine men and women — men with long beards clad in shalwar-kameez and perhaps a turban too, and women wearing headscraves or in full black burqas with only eyes visible, all making noisy remarks in a domestic US flight in a language (Urdu) not understandable to other passengers. And one of those burqa-clad ladies using the word ‘bomb’ in her utterances. If I were in that plane, I would also point that out to the staff.
People of Pakistani origin have to start behaving when living in those western countries — when in Rome do as the Romans do. Having travelled a lot in North America and Europe, I greatly appreciate the patience and greatness of the people of those countries in accepting South Asians.
A message to all those of Pakistani origin living in those countries: if you cannot honour the norms of the country you live in, please return to your country.
MIAN A. AHMAD
Islamabad
///////////////
A sensible pakistani. What I had been telling for so long, a muslim in a burqua is asking to be treated differently and the people should oblige.
#15 Posted by jayp on January 17, 2009 2:21:22 pm
Re: # 13
gauss,
like a typical paki you are resorting to name calling rather than addressing the idea that I am putting forward.
Chowk is about ideas, discussion and education of interactors is never going to take place on chowk.
There is hardly anyone on chowk who does not read my posts.
gauss,
like a typical paki you are resorting to name calling rather than addressing the idea that I am putting forward.
Chowk is about ideas, discussion and education of interactors is never going to take place on chowk.
There is hardly anyone on chowk who does not read my posts.
#14 Posted by jayp on January 17, 2009 2:14:59 pm
Tension with Delhi to hit terror war: Kayani
Sunday, January 18, 2009
Tells Miliband if India moves troops, Pakistan will withdraw forces from Afghan border
RAWALPINDI: Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has said the Indian troops movement along the eastern border would affect the ‘war on terror’ as no compromise would be made on the security of the country.
According to sources, the army chief expressed these views during his meeting with British Foreign Secretary David Miliband who called on Kayani here.
They said the war against terrorism, the regional situation and above all the Pak-India standoff came under discussion at the meeting.
///from jang of t
The spineless Kiyani who surrendered swat to the jihadis has the gall to say that pakis are ready to defend sovereignity. The paki troops who are llaowing the drones to shoot at their own citizens has surrendered the borders on the west to the nato, what is the shame in surrendering the borders on the east as well.
The shameless Kiyani who surrendered swat to taliban should be tried for treason.
Sorry, the tiger niazi was honoured for surrendering east pakistan, so kiyani should be honoured.
Sunday, January 18, 2009
Tells Miliband if India moves troops, Pakistan will withdraw forces from Afghan border
RAWALPINDI: Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has said the Indian troops movement along the eastern border would affect the ‘war on terror’ as no compromise would be made on the security of the country.
According to sources, the army chief expressed these views during his meeting with British Foreign Secretary David Miliband who called on Kayani here.
They said the war against terrorism, the regional situation and above all the Pak-India standoff came under discussion at the meeting.
///from jang of t
The spineless Kiyani who surrendered swat to the jihadis has the gall to say that pakis are ready to defend sovereignity. The paki troops who are llaowing the drones to shoot at their own citizens has surrendered the borders on the west to the nato, what is the shame in surrendering the borders on the east as well.
The shameless Kiyani who surrendered swat to taliban should be tried for treason.
Sorry, the tiger niazi was honoured for surrendering east pakistan, so kiyani should be honoured.
#13 Posted by gauss on January 17, 2009 6:09:23 am
#12: jayp,
you must be blind and retarded. here, let me educate you out of retardation:
for the so-called terrorist camp:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7765875.stm
and is this what nehru (one of the most morally and rationally corrupt despots India was ever ruled by) and poor Ghandi envisaged? (since i can draw the same parallels for India as you did for Pakistan):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4592890.stm
among other things, would it now be fair to say (using your logic) that Ghandi and Nehru created a country to proliferate female infanticide?
you must be blind and retarded. here, let me educate you out of retardation:
for the so-called terrorist camp:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7765875.stm
and is this what nehru (one of the most morally and rationally corrupt despots India was ever ruled by) and poor Ghandi envisaged? (since i can draw the same parallels for India as you did for Pakistan):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4592890.stm
among other things, would it now be fair to say (using your logic) that Ghandi and Nehru created a country to proliferate female infanticide?
#12 Posted by jayp on January 17, 2009 2:20:48 am
In response to the indian pressures, pakistan has shut down three terror training camps of laskers. I thought that pakistan has been fighting terror and such terror madrassas are closed down.
Sorry, they were not terror madrassas, they are jihadic traing camps, part of teh islamisation of pakistan...the call of TNT as the founder envisaged.
The country is falling apart by the burden of the lies that their leaders have to say.
Sorry, they were not terror madrassas, they are jihadic traing camps, part of teh islamisation of pakistan...the call of TNT as the founder envisaged.
The country is falling apart by the burden of the lies that their leaders have to say.
#11 Posted by gauss on January 16, 2009 5:58:14 am
jayp,
you're still ranting here? How many times do i have to make you realize that you're a moron. Let's begin by dissecting your innate ability to be stupid:
"The above quote is from Faris Kasim. Having identified the root cause correctly, the guy goes on to give the final recommedation that interaction between indians and pakiswill ease the tensions."
WRONG, without even going into the fact of what Indian textbooks say, the author does not conclude THAT (what you wrote), the article he cited concludes THAT. It's part of the overall thesis of the author.
Next, "Faris, you are a cuckoo, the as you said the hatred is imparted in the childhood through education, it is transferred through the mothers milk."
considering the fact that you have only an aborted-retarded-kindergarten kids' sense of writing, and not even going into the latter part of your sentence (maybe you hallucinate that you're a scientist, or better yet, you mother aborted you in a toilet and hence your brain-damage)..you really shouldn't be commenting on others.
the rest of what you write has no meaning and the last part is not english...it seems as though you become so emotional that you start to lose oxygen to your brain and hence the eventual degradation in your speech (and your overall being)
you're still ranting here? How many times do i have to make you realize that you're a moron. Let's begin by dissecting your innate ability to be stupid:
"The above quote is from Faris Kasim. Having identified the root cause correctly, the guy goes on to give the final recommedation that interaction between indians and pakiswill ease the tensions."
WRONG, without even going into the fact of what Indian textbooks say, the author does not conclude THAT (what you wrote), the article he cited concludes THAT. It's part of the overall thesis of the author.
Next, "Faris, you are a cuckoo, the as you said the hatred is imparted in the childhood through education, it is transferred through the mothers milk."
considering the fact that you have only an aborted-retarded-kindergarten kids' sense of writing, and not even going into the latter part of your sentence (maybe you hallucinate that you're a scientist, or better yet, you mother aborted you in a toilet and hence your brain-damage)..you really shouldn't be commenting on others.
the rest of what you write has no meaning and the last part is not english...it seems as though you become so emotional that you start to lose oxygen to your brain and hence the eventual degradation in your speech (and your overall being)
#10 Posted by gauss on January 16, 2009 5:49:43 am
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#9 Posted by rf786 on January 16, 2009 12:10:00 am
Dear Faris
Brilliant to say the least, please do keep writing.
Regards
Arif
Brilliant to say the least, please do keep writing.
Regards
Arif
#8 Posted by jayp on January 15, 2009 11:50:26 pm
"A brief by Pakistan Security Research Unit (PSRU) titled The Landlord, the Mollah and the Military: the Education Issue in Pakistan’ illustrates how madrassas, along with the public education system are directly responsible for encouraging religious chauvinism and glorifying militarism, both of which are part and parcel of state sanctioned policies. Government textbooks breed intolerance of Pakistan’s diverse communities, distort and erase significant events, glorify the use of force, promote unquestionable obedience and militancy. "
The above quote is from Faris Kasim. Having identified the root cause correctly, the guy goes on to give the final recommedation that interaction between indians and pakis will ease the tensions.
Faris, you are a cuckoo, the as you said the hatred is imparted in the childhood through education, it is transferred through the mothers milk.
Pakistans problems have intesified over the years simply because a new generation educated by the paki system have come to power, the children of tnt.
Best erxample of thsi is YLH and his tirades against gandhi.
#7 Posted by jayp on January 15, 2009 11:45:28 pm
From dawn of today
////////////////////////
David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent for The New York Times, has published an account of one such meeting between PM Gilani and President Bush. I can do no better than quote his account; the wretchedness of the encounter speaks for itself.
“Washington’s sanguinity was not increased when Pakistan’s new prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, arrived in Washington over the summer for what turned out to be a disastrous first visit. Gilani, as the country’s first civilian leader in more than a decade, was under huge pressure to show he could bring the intelligence agency, and the country, under control. He couldn’t — a brief effort to force the ISI to report to the civilian leadership was quashed — but he thought he had better show up with a gift for President Bush.
“Gilani wanted to tell Bush that he had sent forces into the tribal areas to clean out a major madressah where hard-line ideology and intolerance were part of the daily curriculum. There were roughly 25,000 such private Islamic schools around Pakistan, though only a small number of them regularly bred young terrorists. The one he decided to target was run by the Haqqani faction of Islamic militants, one of the most powerful in the tribal areas.
“Though Gilani never knew it, Bush was aware of this gift in advance. The National Security Agency had picked up intercepts indicating that a Pakistani unit warned the leadership of the school about what was coming before carrying out its raid. ‘They must have called 1-800-HAQQANI,’ said one person who was familiar with the intercepted conversation. According to another, the account of the warning sent to the school was almost comic. ‘It was something like, “Hey, we’re going to hit your place in a few days, so if anyone important is there, you might want to tell them to scram.�’
“When the ‘attack’ on the madressah came, the Pakistani forces grabbed a few guns and hauled away a few teenagers. Sure enough, a few days later Gilani showed up in the Oval Office and conveyed the wonderful news to Bush: the great crackdown on the madressahs had begun. The officials in the room — Bush; his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley; and others — did not want to confront Gilani with the evidence that the school had been warned. That would have required revealing sensitive intercepts, and they judged, according to participants in the discussion, that Gilani was both incapable of keeping a secret and incapable of cracking down on his military and intelligence units. Indeed, Gilani may not even have been aware that his gift was a charade: Bush and Hadley may well have known more about the military’s actions than the prime minister himself.�
///////////////////////////
The story repeats itself. Another sham actions against the jihadis is taking place in pakistan.
It is time for teh world to understand, that as the author this article states, a new generation, the children of tnt have come up through the k for kafir education system.
Only resizing of pakistan can help the world.
////////////////////////
David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent for The New York Times, has published an account of one such meeting between PM Gilani and President Bush. I can do no better than quote his account; the wretchedness of the encounter speaks for itself.
“Washington’s sanguinity was not increased when Pakistan’s new prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, arrived in Washington over the summer for what turned out to be a disastrous first visit. Gilani, as the country’s first civilian leader in more than a decade, was under huge pressure to show he could bring the intelligence agency, and the country, under control. He couldn’t — a brief effort to force the ISI to report to the civilian leadership was quashed — but he thought he had better show up with a gift for President Bush.
“Gilani wanted to tell Bush that he had sent forces into the tribal areas to clean out a major madressah where hard-line ideology and intolerance were part of the daily curriculum. There were roughly 25,000 such private Islamic schools around Pakistan, though only a small number of them regularly bred young terrorists. The one he decided to target was run by the Haqqani faction of Islamic militants, one of the most powerful in the tribal areas.
“Though Gilani never knew it, Bush was aware of this gift in advance. The National Security Agency had picked up intercepts indicating that a Pakistani unit warned the leadership of the school about what was coming before carrying out its raid. ‘They must have called 1-800-HAQQANI,’ said one person who was familiar with the intercepted conversation. According to another, the account of the warning sent to the school was almost comic. ‘It was something like, “Hey, we’re going to hit your place in a few days, so if anyone important is there, you might want to tell them to scram.�’
“When the ‘attack’ on the madressah came, the Pakistani forces grabbed a few guns and hauled away a few teenagers. Sure enough, a few days later Gilani showed up in the Oval Office and conveyed the wonderful news to Bush: the great crackdown on the madressahs had begun. The officials in the room — Bush; his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley; and others — did not want to confront Gilani with the evidence that the school had been warned. That would have required revealing sensitive intercepts, and they judged, according to participants in the discussion, that Gilani was both incapable of keeping a secret and incapable of cracking down on his military and intelligence units. Indeed, Gilani may not even have been aware that his gift was a charade: Bush and Hadley may well have known more about the military’s actions than the prime minister himself.�
///////////////////////////
The story repeats itself. Another sham actions against the jihadis is taking place in pakistan.
It is time for teh world to understand, that as the author this article states, a new generation, the children of tnt have come up through the k for kafir education system.
Only resizing of pakistan can help the world.
#6 Posted by taqil17 on January 15, 2009 8:50:54 pm
Pakistan today is a classic example of the Ostrich Mentality: Leaders, military men,journalists and even our erstwhile religious leaders are all very happy with their heads in the sand or i should say in the dung hill.Most of them are too scared to speak out they are shit scared of the religious fanatics runing wild in the country. Pakistani leaders are oblivious to the creeping menace the TALBAN they are more interested in Juistice Iftikhar Chowdry Farah Dogar and the conflct in the Ghazi Strp They are least concrned about the happenings in our own backyard. Our TV Talk hosts are playing to the galleries and dancing to the tune of the obscurantist forces God Help the country!Pakistan of today is faced with a threat from its own creations and not from India or Israel. Our own home grown religious forces are tearing this country apart
#5 Posted by bittersweetmojo on January 15, 2009 12:28:41 pm
Gauss,
"....modern weaponry in India's arsenal was deployed towards China, it is not part of the thesis of this superb article."
Would you please like to explain as to what is so suberb about this article. And since when a piece that is badly written, cluttered with countless adjectives, with no meaning whatsoever be called an 'article' anyway?
Get it editted first!
"....modern weaponry in India's arsenal was deployed towards China, it is not part of the thesis of this superb article."
Would you please like to explain as to what is so suberb about this article. And since when a piece that is badly written, cluttered with countless adjectives, with no meaning whatsoever be called an 'article' anyway?
Get it editted first!
#4 Posted by gauss on January 15, 2009 9:30:00 am
nkg, first, the name is Faris "Kasim"
second, indian missile and defence program is primarily against Pakistan, hence, the deployment of "brahmos", mirage-2000's, sukhoi-27's/37's, mig-29 deploying aircraft carriers, and (india's only) artillery fire ranging radar system on India's western border with Pakistan. If China was such a big threat we would not see the fleet of "flying-coffins" (mig-21's) being primarily deployed towards it.
Even if it were the case that (some) modern weaponry in India's arsenal was deployed towards China, it is not part of the thesis of this superb article. Any war between Pakistan and India will only destroy the (already starving) citizens as the war-mongering politicians and generals will all go hide in their underground bunkers (with their millions $/families/mistresses and the like).
second, indian missile and defence program is primarily against Pakistan, hence, the deployment of "brahmos", mirage-2000's, sukhoi-27's/37's, mig-29 deploying aircraft carriers, and (india's only) artillery fire ranging radar system on India's western border with Pakistan. If China was such a big threat we would not see the fleet of "flying-coffins" (mig-21's) being primarily deployed towards it.
Even if it were the case that (some) modern weaponry in India's arsenal was deployed towards China, it is not part of the thesis of this superb article. Any war between Pakistan and India will only destroy the (already starving) citizens as the war-mongering politicians and generals will all go hide in their underground bunkers (with their millions $/families/mistresses and the like).
#3 Posted by vakibs on January 15, 2009 4:59:58 am
The situation in Pakistan is so comical it looks like Star Wars. The evil emperor (military) wants to hold on to his power and denude the parliament of its powers. He says absolute power is necessary to fight with the irregular evil knights on the frontiers (Taliban). In the end, the darth-maul (taliban) is revealed to be the emperor's own agent.
The Darth-Vader (ISI) who started out as a decent knight becomes the supreme evil-servant of the emperor, finally overpowering the emperor himself.
May the force be with you, Pakistanis :)
The Darth-Vader (ISI) who started out as a decent knight becomes the supreme evil-servant of the emperor, finally overpowering the emperor himself.
May the force be with you, Pakistanis :)
#2 Posted by muqaddam on January 14, 2009 8:00:05 pm
A thought provoking article particularly for the sabre rattling types..
One sees that Punjabi Pakistanis are the most beligerent in a conflict like situation in the subcontinent. Being the preponderent province in the country population-wise it is assumed that Pakistani policy which is at its jingoistic best when it comes to relations with India, is reflective of the Punjabi Mussalmans' psyche. Yet it is a wonder why a border province which is likely to suffer most in any war conventional or nuclear should indulge in this belicosity. Has this got to do something with the history of the Raj when the Punjabi Mussalman (then called P.M.) had undoubted preference over all other native groups when it came to army recruitment(with the exception of Sikhs and Gurkhas who were prefered over the P.M.)which, over a period built a sense of superiority into the P.M.'s psyche.
Like it is said, in the world you must be an anglosaxon to be considered a A grade world citizen, similarly it appears that being a Punjabi Mussalman is the only true qualification of being a Pakistani.
Even Parvez Musharraf who is a Mohajir from Delhi has to speak Urdu with a Punjabi accent to show that he is a true Pakistani.
The solution lies in decimating the stranglehold of the Punjabi Mussalman over Pakistan's polity and diplomacy.
As one has said before neither the Sindhis, nor the Baloch or the Pathans ever wanted war with India. It is always the Punjabi Mussalman dominated Pakistani army which has dragged Pakistan into wars. The Pakistani army is known for behaving like a defeated pehlwan dreaming of some day beating the guy that chitt-karaoed him in the last fight.
One sees that Punjabi Pakistanis are the most beligerent in a conflict like situation in the subcontinent. Being the preponderent province in the country population-wise it is assumed that Pakistani policy which is at its jingoistic best when it comes to relations with India, is reflective of the Punjabi Mussalmans' psyche. Yet it is a wonder why a border province which is likely to suffer most in any war conventional or nuclear should indulge in this belicosity. Has this got to do something with the history of the Raj when the Punjabi Mussalman (then called P.M.) had undoubted preference over all other native groups when it came to army recruitment(with the exception of Sikhs and Gurkhas who were prefered over the P.M.)which, over a period built a sense of superiority into the P.M.'s psyche.
Like it is said, in the world you must be an anglosaxon to be considered a A grade world citizen, similarly it appears that being a Punjabi Mussalman is the only true qualification of being a Pakistani.
Even Parvez Musharraf who is a Mohajir from Delhi has to speak Urdu with a Punjabi accent to show that he is a true Pakistani.
The solution lies in decimating the stranglehold of the Punjabi Mussalman over Pakistan's polity and diplomacy.
As one has said before neither the Sindhis, nor the Baloch or the Pathans ever wanted war with India. It is always the Punjabi Mussalman dominated Pakistani army which has dragged Pakistan into wars. The Pakistani army is known for behaving like a defeated pehlwan dreaming of some day beating the guy that chitt-karaoed him in the last fight.
#1 Posted by nkg on January 14, 2009 7:43:09 pm
Faris Kashim...
"...Pritvis targetting lahore...."
Not true. Indian missile and defence program is mainly against China. Pakistan is treated as assistant of China....
"...Pritvis targetting lahore...."
Not true. Indian missile and defence program is mainly against China. Pakistan is treated as assistant of China....
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