Taliban Cloud Moves to Pakistan

Re: # 413

In general people of Pakistan have never been against social elites. To this day PPP is nothing but party of feudal lords, pirs, and drug pushers but still what ever portion of population votes, does so for them. The same thing goes for other parties as well.

The reason for this attitude of pakistanis is that the social elite itself has always been plundering national wealth that came to the country as foreign aid in order to influence the domestic and foreign policies of GOP. On the other hand social elite were always there to "protect" masses from the corruption of police and bureaucracy.

This is the reason communist manifesto failed in Pakistan. Commies failed to mobilize grass root populace against elite. And the mother of all jokes is that, the head and pattron saint of Pakis communists was one of the biggest feudal lord himself - mian iftekhar.

But thanks to Muttaraf and Shortcut Aziz this social dynamics have changed 180 degrees now. The international soodkhors like IMF, WB, paris club and all other laantis now want return on their investment. The social elite, who was the biggest beneficiary of their "loans" now does so by imposing cruel indirect taxes and duties, which has more profound effect at the grass root level. The corruption of elite, that once only, middle class was aware of, is now making itself down to the grass root level. First time in the history of Pakistan, not only the middle class, but grass root is also asking the question "where the fukk is MY money".

Thanks to Muttaraf again, he tried to address this awareness with brute force, with massacres, illegal detentions, and kidnapping rings. The middle class that used to prefer order over the corruption, by preferring military rule than those of inefficient and moronic politicians is also questioning their own judgement of the past.

The middle class supports the ideology of political Islam because when grass root will bring their guilotines, they have a chance to become their mentors in the ideology. We are practically standing right on one day before that was "the day of bastile". The social elite is trying to corrupt the sedition by bay hayyai and what was the Festivals of Fools in France ones. They don't realize that grass root in Pakistan and especially the conservative middle class is taking it no less than the Prima Nocta that european social elites used to "crush" sedition.

Hamidm sahib:

Have you seen the 14 minute documentary on Swat Valley in today's New York Times web-site?

So that is what you want to do to "my" Kashmir Valley, "my" Kashmiri people also?

Believe me there are almost billion in that part of the world who would not let it happen. Please give this nightmare, it is not a dream.

Clouds turned into Rain of violence which should stop now after the new deal.

Re: # 412

CreateAlpha

Middle class is not free from blame neither are they helpless, they are the main supporters whenever the military has taken over simply because that for them is the only way elites who dominate politics are defeated. Now with the Mulla revolution, that too is sponsored and promoted by middle class merchants, professionals and academia. Again, direct product of political disenfranchisement, interference and control by those who are supposed to serve.

Rf sahib, but that is true of elites everywhere. The way I see it is that the so called urban pakistani who was always bamboozled by either the army or the feudals (who used the mullahs to their end) kind of got shocked into inactive helpnessnes to see the mullahs actualy get stronger than both the army and the feudals. The awam had a process (however inept) to deal with the army or the feudals (the rotating governance mandate). But they have nothing to deal with the mullahs. It is sad. They seem helpless.

Re: # 405

hamidm2

In his younger days and in a different setting while sitting with his close people AH would question the existence of god, but with the passage of time being the politician he is, AH then became Pir sahib.

If you wish to have legal, efficient and immediate solutions to a problem then all u have to do is say Allah o Akber and this so and so person has committed blasphemy, end of story. AH understands and respects the monopoly of violence and the day he raises this anti-religion slogan that will be like signing his death warrant.

Solution? Yaar hamidm2, many a smart people have tried and failed simply because they have failed to counter an ideology with a counter ideology. They kept throwing good money at these chaps who kept the money by saying Bismillah, we can be patient and that patience is paying off. So first of all give these the credit they deserve, respect them for their political acumen and consistency and recognize the civil society failures. After that, we need to revive the social slogans raised by PPP back in the sixties and make them stick. In addition, we have to respond in the language they understand and respect, if they have no qualms in killing their opponents then they will not object when they get the same treatment. But for that to happen there has to be a very strong political and financial support system else nothing will be gained.

Or, we can all grow a beard and wait for the 72 houries promised.

#407 Posted by CreateAlpha on February 22, 2009 9:13:23 am

I think people, especially Americans, underestimate Pakistani ruling class. Tell me one country where leadership has fooled so many adversaries for so long - the jihadis, common citizens, Indian governmnet, Indian Muslims, USA liberals, CIA, China, Saudi Arabia, Ordinary Arabs.

These elites (ISI/Army, Feudals and other highly educated folks) switch their masks quickly to fit the circumstances. They wont fight anybody to get killed but always use one against another. They have no long term goals for their countrymen and are looking after only their own well being.

It is sad rf sahib. One feels bad for the ostriches and sheep as they duck or graze while the hyenas strategically circle them.

Re: # 404

CreateAlpha Sahib

Such is the conditioning of the Pakistani mind, dangle American/Jewish/Indian red flag and they will react immediately, try talking to them about the Taliban/Establishment atrocities and they draw a blank. But then again, what is the population sample are we talking about, middle class born again muslims of Karachi, Lahore, Pindi or Peshawar Or the rural populations that have never been able to express their opinions.

Control and command structures in the form of Madaris are spread across the cities of Pakistan, they can muster the troops whenever required thus the impressive bravado whenever they wish to show muscle for issues that favor their ideology.

What does Pakistan have to counter this organized pressure group? Political parties such as PPP, ANP, MQM the most vilified parties of the country. Nationalists have been subjected to abuses from day one, communists were uprooted in the fifties and socialist saw their leader being hanged in 1979, his daughter shot in day light and scores of their leaders either brutally murdered or marginalized in the political setup.

This is all by design, these people have a vision and are disciplined enough to make deals whenever required and yet maintain their primary goals. Imran Khan is well aware of their prowess and chose to sleep with the enemy rather than being mauled by it, ethnic pride also played a major role in his decision. As for the Hameed Guls of this world, well they are the nucleus of this ideology, but they are not alone neither is the vision dependent on one person.

Shah of Iran was overthrown by the efforts of socials and Islamists, but when the Islamist took over the first thing they did was to eliminate the socialist elements from all walks of life. Do you remember Bani Sadr? If not google it. History will repeat itself in Pakistan, Imran Khan will be hanged in public for his adulterous life. NS will take the first flight to London and Zardari, well if he lives will spend the rest of his life either in Dubai or NY.

Pardesi, I don't think pakistanis wil be able to do that. you are looking at a long term civil hostilities among the pakistanis before a clear winner emerges

#404 Posted by CreateAlpha on February 22, 2009 8:53:15 am
"I think pakistanis deserve what is coming. they don;t have the intestinal fortitude for a good fight."

They want USA to fight and save their arse. This way they are covered on both ends. USA wins - they are part of the winning team. USA leaves - they grow beard and get ready to march towards Delhi.

Re: # 401

bismillah mian,

... i agree, but what do we do about it? ..... how do you reign in people like imran khan, nawaz sharif, hamid mir, shahid hussain, aneeq ahmed, doctor israr, hamid gul and other 'washed' spokesmen for the devil?

..... more importantly how do you stop all these people from praying five times a day! ...... i always say that 'namaz is the root of all evil - namaz tamam buraiyee ki jar hai' ..... when i was growing up most mosques used to be empty other than on fridays and eid ..... now people are spilling out out on the street and into the gutters on a weekday afternoon ........ where have we gone wrong? ..... maybe we should tear down half the mosques and killl half the mullahs - it is fine by me, but i am sure most people would object ......... what is the solution? ... can altaph bhai issue a fatwa against namaz?

rf sahib, I was jut watching Iram Khan on Fareed Zakharia's GPS show. imran continued with the rhetoric of the pakistani gov't not having the choice with the swat deal, the army not having a choice. It is comical and sad at the same time. did you see that video of thousands of 10 yr old kids in karachi marching wearing fake suicide vests screaming "death to jews" when the israel/palistinain hostilities were there. But not even 10 peolpe marched in karachi or lahore to condemn these islamists when 100's of girls schools were burned down, acid thrown on girls faces, people strung up on lamp posts in khooni chowk. I think pakistanis deserve what is coming. they don;t have the intestinal fortitude for a good fight.

Re: # 397
कृष�ण ABCD,

Find your answer in my latest I-log.

Re: # 397

wow krishna! Just when everything was getting all hunkydory suddenly you start talking tough again...must I remind you of 1000 years history again? Speak for yourself (india) though...indi is not US!

Re: # 387

hamidm2

Sirjee, this has been a well planned and deliberate exercise, take the cricket team for example, these washed Talibs took over the team and transformed it into a walking talking Tablighee promo.

These innocent looking, soft spoken humble creatures are spreading like the deadly locust, destroying everything in their way. Civilized world has few options, one of them is extermination through pesticide.