Fitna : The Proverbial Dutch Foot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjjSFy736UU kindly watch this video and then you all FITNA-SUPPOERTERS will get to know what's ISLAM !

and Mr.Luddo whoever u are? Kindly first research on ISLAM and than pass on comments! You should be ashamed of yourself

Re: # 15

"comprehensive insight"

Shows tht any nonsense about Islam with droppings of mullahism is "comprehensive insight"!!

Sairah if you have any intellectual honesty please respond to my posts!!

word by word....

Dear Sairah,

Thanks for an excellent article written in a unique style.

Don't take the proliferate Laddu droppings seriously. He's a known crank. Continue with your comprehensive insight.

Sairah,

Don't you think you sound kind of extremely preachy?
I think Wilder was n is wrong, but you sound more like Ishrat aapa.

Comment if you like!

-E

What is God, allah, jesus, Brahma doing now. I think its really stupid to stop sending prophets as mankind needs them even more at this stage. May be the prophets are afraid of the terrorist as well. How can a all- knowing, all-loving and all-powerful God can see all the evil in this world.Wake up people. God is a human creation out of fear of unknown and hope for future. Grow out of it.

Laddu .. you keep posting all this that has been recorded about the character of a man called mohammed from hundreds of years ago.
Do you seriously expect moslems to start realizing how fkd up they are?

Just assuming that this verse does include the entire of mankind, then what about Muhammad? He killed a 120 year old man, Abu Afak, just for criticizing him, and he kills a mother of five, `Asma' Bint Marwan, for similar reason. Splitting a old woman prisoner, Umm Qirfa, into two![1] and killing a singing girl[2] for mocking him. of course, he didn't kill them without any reason, they all the criticized him, mocked him, wasn't that enough a reason? well, I will let the readers decide! wasn't he killing mankind at each instance? (of course, thats only if you think mocking was not a big crime) and at one instance, Muhammad, had 600 - 900 Jewish prisoners of war who surrendered to him brutally murdered. Well, that implies the so called prophet had mankind killed 600 - 900 times in a single day! And there are many more and some one can begin to count actually how many times the so called prophet hand mankind killed! I have lost the count! and you?

The verse applies to Muslims only, and is irrelevant in the case of unbelievers, if you kill a Muslim it is as you kill the entire of mankind, and if you save one then you have saved the entire of mankind. Other revered tafsirs agree on this, Tafsir al-Jalalayn writes on Q 5:32,

Because of that, which Cain did, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whoever slays a soul for other than a soul, slain, or for, other than, corruption, committed, in the land, in the way of unbelief, fornication or waylaying and the like, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoever saves the life of one, by refraining from slaying, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind - Ibn 'AbbÄ?s said [that the above is meant] in the sense of violating and protecting its [a soul's] sanctity [respectively]. Our messengers have already come to them, that is, to the Children of Israel, with clear proofs, miracles, but after that many of them still commit excesses in the land, overstepping the bounds through disbelief, killing and the like. (Tafsir al-Jalalayn, online source)

And Ibn Abbas says in his tafsir,

(For that) because Cain wrongfully killed Abel (cause We decreed for the Children of Israel) in the Torah (that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter) i.e. premeditatedly (or corruption in the earth) or because of idolatry, (it shall be as if be had killed all mankind) Hell will be decreed for him for premeditatedly and wrongfully killing a human being, as though he killed all mankind, (and whoso saveth the life of one) whoever abstains from killing a person, (it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind) Paradise will be decreed for him for sparing one soul, as though he spared the lives of all mankind. (Our messengers came unto them) i.e. the Children of Israel (of old with clear proofs) with commands, prohibitions and signs, (but afterwards lo! many of them) the Children of Israel (became) after the messengers (prodigals in the earth) ascribing partners to Allah. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs, online source)

The verses primarily forbade killing of Muslims and doesn't have any sort of relevance in relation towards infidels, in fact the same verse gives them a go ahead signal to slay infidels.

Lets get to the bottom of this verse. Here is the verse in full:

For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land. Q 5:32, Shakir

the verse says that this doesn't apply to those involved in "manslaughter or for mischief in the land"

The mischief makers the Quran points out to are none other than the infidels. The Quran here clearly describes the mischief makers here, it says "and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land."

Allah says even after sending many apostles with clear proofs, many people still disbelieved there by ended up as transgressors. Given this, Q 5:32 verse is only applicable to Muslims.

For a non-muslim mushrique like me who does not believe in Allah or Mohammad's Prophethood this verse is not applicable.

So, now tell me Siarah bi does killing of a mushrique means killing of humanity?

If so, then was Mohammad inhuman when he killed the Meccan mushriques??

Sairah,

Let us be concise, can you answer to posts 2,3 and 4??

BTW have you seen FITNA??

Friends
Religion is like a baggage. In old days it use to have tools that were helpful in dealing and understanding life and nature but now those tools are useless, so the sooner we get rid of that old baggage the better it is.

By all means, let's discuss FITNA.

Talking Mushrikuun first, the old Vedanta quotes a Single Supreme God, Brahma, off whom three facets are shown (in the Rgveda) Indra, Agni and Soma. This is Vedic Hinduism. It is Dharmic Hinduism which allows 33 or conversely, 33million. Primarily, the Vedic religion was a religion of 'respect for Nature' much as Shamanism was. It is because you already respect your inner nature and the Outer Nature that you are now required to bow and give alms to a diety. In the beginning, the brahman knew that God was within him. I guess if you call yourself Mushrik, it is of your own volition.

It is often when the Origins of a religion are lost that Fitna develops. Twenty different people will have twenty differences of opinion. It is to renew the simplicity of faith that a prophet is sent or to set some people right (from doing wrong).

As far as Surah 8 Verse 6 goes, I think the Koran itself answers the question in the form of another Surah. Surah Lahab ...what is promised when you question the faith of the prophet itself and its attendant ahadith. I'm sure you can look it up.

It is true. Muslims are given the portion of Jihad. But at the same time temperence is advised. It says if there is even a small shred of hope that the person will join the fold of goodness and revert from his evil ways, then it is better to spare him. For then,perhaps you will have saved a life worth saving.

Islam is not happy at killing. It says you kill one man, you have killed humankind. Save one, you have saved humankind. Perhaps this alludes to the inner journey and the possible consequences of that clemency.

By all means, please lets discuss Fitna.

Sairah

Miss Sairah,

Work on editing please.

Notice the scattering of Laddu!

And the scene when the mullahs say -

"kill the mushriques (like me)....."

As a mushrique I would never tolerate any religion and their leaders who want to kill me because of my religious belief.

How about the scene when the mullahs say -
"Allah is happy when the non-muslims are killed."

Is this your Quran???

Surah 8 Verse 6 :

.......can we discuss the scenes regarding this Surah??