Lahore Terror Attack Targeting Sri Lankan Team: Who is behind it?

Re: # 217
riaz..

beduinod, police did not reacted. They were killed and jihadis, after doing their duty, walked away ( not ran away)....
Muttiah Muralitharan and Jayawardhane told the press that, police had not fired a single bullet...


Arjun...
You are right, the brother of the bus driver was sent to arabic moon god's whore house by Indian security forces(in Kashmir)...I think, that is the reason, the jihadis spared the driver....
Now a days most of the Paki cricket players are members of Jamat etc..., so, the jihadis informed the Paki team not to venture out with Lankan team...the purpose was quite clear, abduct the team and use them to release Juckiur Rehman Laqvi...Police tried to help the jihadis...but somehow it failed and Pakistani govt. can not use any excuse to relaese LeT leader (Juckioor R Laqvi)....
Pakistan is already under immense presuure related to abduction of UN aid worker....this would have been icing on the cake...

10 year old article at Chowk.
http : // chowk . com/interacts/4313
How true his words have been.

Read intracts there.. one response is "Taliban would never reach Pakistan"..

Once in denial always in denial.

re. URSTRULY: "No measure of security can prevent this."

If this were true, there would scarcely be a President alive today in the US or any Third World country. Get real already! Do the words "Presidential Security" mean anything to you?

Is anyone following the statements coming out of the PCB? Butt, on the BBC, claimed that Broad's account of security was "totally wrong, fabricated … no truth in it".

WTF!?! Is this a-hole so beyghairat that he thinks he can lie about what we all saw on tv??

Now Miandad has added his voice to the many Pakistani cricketers and ex-cricketers calling for action against Broad. WTF!!!

BUTT clearly had his head stuck up his name when he went on to say: "We had three ODIs and a Test with no problems, ... There is no way one can predict a terrorist attack. "

Muthafcuker!! The fact that they weren't attacked earlier is now proof that security was all right?? And look how the lying ba$tard is completely ignoring the Punjab CID report of Jan. 22.

He also dismissed suggestions from a number of witnesses, including Muttiah Muralitharan and Broad, that the Pakistan bus was several minutes behind the main convey at the time of the attack. "Nonsense," he said, "it was there and one of the security staff informed them there was firing and they turned back."

Now WTF is this!?!? Just yesterday Yunis Khan, in an effort to quell conspiracy theories, explained to reporters how it was normal for one team to leave five to ten minutes after the other, which is exactly what he'd decided to do, since his team would be batting anyway. Now Butt's contradicting him too??

And finally, this freaking lie that has been doing the rounds for some years now.. "We will need to convince people they can come here," Butt said. "Our public is cricket crazy."

BULL$HIT!! Pakistanis are not cricket-crazy and don't treat cricket as a religion. That would be the Indians. We have perhaps the thinnest turnouts perhaps in the world at the stadiums for both Tests and ODI's. So who the fcuk arewe trying to kid with this lie!?

#216 by PM

They were being fired from no more than 20-40m away-- and from KKs! Given that this van was a sitting duck, without so much as constable in sight to defend it, it's remarkable that its (foreign) occupants got out unscathed. (Or was the Pakistani reserve umpire in this van??) It's very unlikely that a team of attackers who'd orchestrated such a well-planned ambush would not have known who was riding in the van.

Could it be because the attackers were more intent on getting the players as that would give them more visibility as opposed to the lowly match officials (if they were caught in the crossfire, so be it)?

I don't know why people don't understand this that only a legitimate, law abiding, sovereign, and independent government can prevent such attrocities. No measure of security can prevent this.

I have written it many times that the paradigm of war in 21st century has changed 180 degrees from what has been happening since the dawn of human civilization. In this new paradigm conventional armies have no place and no use. They cannot accomplish neither the defence nor the offence. If the pathetic state of armies of two superpowers one after the other in the past 20 years is not the evidence then what is? In Afghanistan, armies of 37 western countries, who have had monopoly over violence for the past 500 years have been rendered utter failures.

The new armies are the people who are bound by ideologies and not by nationalism or geography. Pakistani nation must understand that they are at war with India, NATO, and America. These countries will do whatever they can to harm the "people's army" in Pakistan. The "people's army" in Pakistan will fight back as well. The Afghanistan experience during the USSR and USA occupations has given Pakistan's people's army a competitive and comparative edge over all other peopel's armies or regular armies in the world. But it does not mean that Pakistan's people's army will remain on top of its game forever. Others are catching up.

The case of Hindu religious nuts attacking the shuttle train between India and Pakistan is indictive that the Hindus people's army has started taking its baby steps. Americans and Europeans have money to buy mercenaries. They themselves love life more than dying for a cause (as long as there is money in it).

On the surface it seems like a hopeless situation but in the expert opinion of this scribe a de'tent is possible. It is only possible when there are legitimate law abiding governments in those countries. Another possibility is the emergence of a truly representative international body that would replace the horrible house of whores called UN. The chances of that happening is quite slim, because Western political and economic interests have not been threatened effectively enough yet. But they are extremely vulnerable at this time probably precedented only by the WWII in their 500 years history of violence.

So until then en'guard!!!

Random thoughts-

(1) The difference between Mumbia and Lahore was that Lahore WAS NOT a Fidayeen mission. It was done with a specific purpose of NOT accepting Jehadi losses. And hence complicity with agencies was required.

(2) The fact that they were able to riddle the bus with 49 bullets shows that they aimed at killing all or some kafir kirkiters . The fact that they lobbed grenads which miraculously did not explode and that they also fired a rocket that missed the target shows that they wanted to kill but missed their target.

(3) the fact that the srilankans were saved by the bus driver who took them out of reach shows that they were saved by providence and due to one ordinary un involved abdul.

(4) The fact that NO Jehadi was killed shows that Pakis never wanted to stop the jehadis from killing kafir kirkiters.

#175 Hamidm2, #179 tahmed32

Sirs, I'm confused. You must be very close to Allah to get everyone of your wishes fulfilled on the trot.

You started looking for ways to stop this burai ki jarh of Namaaz and Allah immediately delivers his prescription:

"At least 15 people were injured in a blast at a mosque in the northwestern Pakistani city of Dera Ismail Khan on Thursday, witnesses said.

Witnesses and local residents said a grenade was lobbed into the mosque while a group of people were praying inside. The blast injured about 15 people who were taken to a local hospital.

Dera Ismail Khan has witnessed several bomb attacks in the past few months. The city is located near South Waziristan tribal region and Bannu and Tank districts of the North West Frontier Province, where the Pakistani Taliban have a strong presence."

Everybody else hopes to get his due only after death. Expected exemplary effect is lost. You get a fast door delivery. Where did you get this direct services line. What do you do to replace Namaaz.

I imagine you must be fast on follow-up action too. When is it due and where?

Here are some of the obvious differences between Mumbai and Lahore tragedies:

1. Unlike the Lahore attackers, the Mumbai attackers were on a suicide mission and fought a determined and long battle killing lots of civilians while mocking Indian authorities for almost three days.

2. Unlike Mumbai police, ATS and Indian commandos, Lahore Police were able to protect their charges from hostage taking or being killed while sacrificing their own lives.

3. Unlike the Mumbai attackers, the Lahore attackers staged an ambush and ran away when the police responded. The fact that all of them were able to flee without a serious chase is still something to be very seriously concerned about and it requires better preparation and training for the future.

The nature of the attacks and attackers appear to be very different leading one to conclude that Lahore is not the work of the known Jihadi groups operating in South Asia. Some domestic radical groups in Pakistan could be the perpetrators but it is more likely the work of mercenaries hired by external elements for carrying out a covert action to terrorize Pakistan as supposed pay back.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Somewhat random thoughts...

re. the fact that the bus survived the rocket and didn't have its tyres blown out by the attackers...

Well, as per the driver's account, he was forced to veer the bus to avoid the firing/grenades from up ahead. Just then, the rocket, fired from somewhere behind the bus, whizzed past it. Apparently, the few surviving policemen also fired back at the attackers at this point. The bus driver, on the insistence of its terrified passengers, hit the gas. Hitting the bus therefore, could not have been the easiest thing in the world.

Point: It's too early to suggest that the attackers didn't really intend taking out the players. The bullets they fired at the bus were very real, and it is only very, very good fortune that no player was killed, even as several incurred shrapnel wounds.

Having said that, I suppose I would be contradicting myself suggesting that the attackers, having killed the driver of the van carrying the umpires and referee, didn't seem very intent on killing its occupants. Chris Broad claims the van did come under fire, but oddly states that there was the sound of bullets "pinging off the vehicle". WTF!? Were these rubber bullets!?? They were being fired from no more than 20-40m away-- and from KKs! Given that this van was a sitting duck, without so much as constable in sight to defend it, it's remarkable that its (foreign) occupants got out unscathed. (Or was the Pakistani reserve umpire in this van??) It's very unlikely that a team of attackers who'd orchestrated such a well-planned ambush would not have known who was riding in the van.

Lastly... wouldn't a self-respecting, true-blooded jihadi run up to the van wearing a heavy belt and make sure no one escaped alive? Or, for that matter, used a coupla more cars to at least ATTEMPT to drive into the bus?

as the plot thickens...

#178 Posted by nkg:
NKG: Actors need not know who the financers of a "film" are.

anil miaN (#183),

Our tahmed sahib suffers from a common affliction: an overwhelming sense of religious superiority. This disease is often combined with a zeal to protect the honor of Islam.

Maybe it has something to do with getting hot babes in the hereafter … I dunno … but �unnecessary complex� explains it just fine. And sahib is supposed to be a moderate, rational, new-age Muslim (sigh!) …

… now you know why the ummah is going to the dogs …

Yeh kis sher ki aamad hai, kai ran kaamp raha hai??

i hear all this talk of "Masadi this" from Good ole boy Hamidm and "Masadi that" from Anil sahib and "Thus Spake Masadithustra" from Majumdar bhai and "Masadi wears pants" from mr. daniyal - but no Sher-e-Chowk Masadi to be seen!!

Majumdar:

It seems Masadi mian sees the lipstick on the pig, but cannot see the pig. This is because lipstick is for elites and therefore must be provided by the elites. He also says that the pig is there because of elites.

TV footage shows Lahore attackers fleeing past police

ISLAMABAD: TV footage aired Thursday clearly showed two of the terrorists who attacked the Sri Lankan team in Lahore fleeing past an approaching police vehicle, giving the lie to the authorities' claims that they had cordoned off the area immediately after the incident occurred.

Captured by a CCTV camera and aired by Geo TV, the visuals show two men on a motorcycle, one of them branding an automatic, entering the frame from the bottom of the picture.

A police vehicle approaches from the other side, crosses the motorcycle and speeds on without even attempting to stop the duo as they ride out of the frame.

On Wednesday, Geo TV had aired four sets of visuals captured by CCTV cameras in the lanes around the Liberty Market area near the Gaddafi Stadium where a group of terrorists, said to number 12, sprayed bullets on the Sri Lanka team bus Tuesday.

Eight Pakistanis, including six security personnel died in the attack, while six Sri Lankan cricketers, and the team's assistant coach, were injured.

One of the visuals showed two armed terrorists running 50 metres down a lane to where another man waited on a motorcycle. The rider kick starts the machine, the other two get on and the motorcycle speeds away.

Re: # 208

majumdar sahib,

...... by the same token, the horrible hindoos are also being embarassed by looney tunes like arjun mian who puts our mad masadi to shame ........ at least poor masadi takes the time to write his utter nonsense in gramatically correct english, while arjun sticks to cut and paste (and that too from paki papers) ......

Re: # 208

So 'The New and Improves Turbo Charged M Asadi' is it?

Hmmm...Sure does beat the pants of 'regards'.

Regards,
Shoaib

majumdar mian,

..... please stop playing a mad man's advocate ...... as it is, we pakis are the laughing stock of the world and we don't want mad masadi giving the horrible hindoo hyenas more reason to cackle at us ........... chowk staff has done the right thing by banishing this .... this ... imbecile ......... hopefully this ban is permanent ......

AHAHA....will prophet tahmed(peace be unto his self-righteous burning rear) blame this on pandit hate?

Pakistan poses global security worry, says top US official

The top US diplomat in Kabul warned ­yesterday that Pakistan posed a bigger security challenge to America and the world than Afghanistan, as Islamabad grappled with the latest terrorist attack on its soil and the escalating Taliban ­insurgency on its north-western border.

Christopher Dell, who currently runs the US embassy in Kabul, was speaking in the aftermath of the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore and the news that Pakistani Taliban groups had formed a common front to attack Nato troops in Afghanistan, in what is widely expected to be a bloody and possibly ­decisive summer this year.

"From where I sit [Pakistan] sure looks like it's going to be a bigger problem," Dell said in an interview in the heavily fortified US embassy in Kabul. "It is certainly one of those nuclear armed countries the instability of which is a bigger problem for the globe.

"Pakistan is a bigger place, has a larger population, its nuclear-armed. It has certainly made radical Islam a part of its political life, and it now seems to be a deeply ingrained element of its political culture. It makes things there very hard."

Re: # 199

Cheema Sahib

I totally disagree, Masadi is a loony bin, his place is in some mental asylum that deals with Schizophrenic patients, world would be a safer place, take Chowk for example...much better.

Re: # 204; majumdar

"TC" means "Turbo-Charged" in masadi's language

in MY language, it means something else ... but that's besides the point I reckon

Shoaib bhai,

TNI stands for The New and Improved, not sure what TC stands for

Regards

What does TNITC stand for in Asadi's post bought to us by Majumdarda?

Re: # 193
majumder....
hey, you are quarantined for carrying masadi virus!!!

akc...
the Lahore attack may be supported by Indian establishment, but the social fabric of Pakistan makes it almost impossible for RAW/IB to carry out such attack deep inside Pakistan... you need local franchise of terror network ( which mini-pakistans in India serves as for ISI and other jihadi forces). If India was that capable, they would have taken revenge long back...Indian metroes sufferred many allahoo kabooms in last 2/3 years, specialy Jaipur one during IPL was very bad...even after that India toured Pakistan during Asia Cup.....


It is just eyewash from Pakistani establishment to sideline mumbai blast prove. Indian investigating agencies have collected enough evidence that the perpetrators of the crime (Mumbai) was mainly Pakistani military establishment and the current civilian (so called) have to do something on that...India is not sharing much of the information, as , that will espose the source...Mind that, India tapped Pakistani generals' conversation with their Chinku masters before Kargil attack and shared that info with NS (then PM of Pakistan) and USA... the neat result!!! NS was kicked out and everything was exposed to Paki generals and their Chinku masters....India can no more use the same infrastucture to gather similar information....

No trace of Lahore attackers; 5 suspects quizzed

Islamabad (PTI): Two days after the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore, Pakistani investigators were struggling to identify the dozen fugitive terrorists as they quizzed five suspects who claimed that the attackers had stayed in the city for a month before striking.

Notwithstanding video footage showing the terrorists at Liberty Chowk spraying bullets on the vehicles ferrying the Sri Lankan squad, there was no official word on any headway being made in tracking them down.

//////////////////////////////jang/////////

More than a year after benazir killing no one is arrested. The UN has been asked to investigate..well another classic ISI job. The lahore also will follow the same path.

This was planned along with mumbai by the ISI, at that time indians were supposed to come to pakistan. But what difference does sri lankans or indians make, both are kafirs food for the jihadic gods.

Re: # 199
Supporting masadi,

Masadi has been banned so was hamidm and a few others for varying times, that is the rule of chowk. By others posting on behalf of masadi is pathetic, it is trying to subvert the chowk rules.

yes there are times when the rules should be subverted, but masadis insane posts do not deserve that. Let us say bye to masadi till he can post in his own name.

By the way, using another person to post is probably the final proof of insanity if one needs that.

Re: # 197; majumdar

I agree ... he should be freed immediately ... what he says is not harming anyone and despite my occasional outbursts towards him, I don't think he means any malice

anyhow, I am not ruling out his theory completely just yet ... we'll see what unfolds in the next few weeks

as I said before, I have no illusions about the capabilities of the Pakistani establishment (military or civil) but I am hard pressed to find any honesty of character from the 'other' side either

I agree that people much worse than Masadi roam free. Are you friends with all of them, or is he special?

Cheema sb,

No the Regards was from me.

Nb di,

I posted Masadi sb's comments at his request but I personally dont subscribe to it. Masadi sb has been banned for over a week now while much worse characters have been roaming free. It may be "legal" but unjust.

Regards

Majumdar, it appears you are talking to yourself. anyway, you have taught masadi how to be polite, what with the regards, etc. Well done!
There is no such thing as illegal detention by chowk. It's all legal.

Re: # 193; majumdar

masadi said "Regards" at the end???

To clarify, I dont subscribe to Masadi sb's interpretation in #193. IMHO it is the karnama of the Pak GHQ to discredit the civvies and pave way for Martial Law.

Regards

Posting on the behalf of Masadi sb who continues to remain in illegal detention by chowk.

Maj writes "Why shud RAW retaliate for an operation that was carried out by itself (as per you guys).

Simple answer to escalate what they wanted to achieve from Bombay but which increasingly fizzled out. The question that needs to be asked is who stands to gain from these attacks and why now. Answering both questions leads to the US/India alliance in Afghanistan to destabilize Pakistan and pave the way for Martial Law there, before the U.S' upcoming plans for Iran. The first stage of this destabilization began with the Bombay attacks that were similar to these ones in methodology of street firefight which has not occurred before in the various suicide blast incidents in Pakistan. This was a "new" method, and one "imported" from Bombay.

Any local group seeking to gain support by attacking Pakistani cricket shoots themselves in the foot. This is not the work of local groups. An attack on Pakistani cricket has greater symbolic shock value than the intended bloodshed, especially for India who wants to paint Pakistan a terrorist state and isolate it internationally. Why the Sri Lankan team was chosen also points to India in my opinion. These attacks Mumbai and Lahore, point to the unholy alliance between the CIA/India and their common cause viz-a-viz Afghanistan (where India is deeply involved in various projects) to the destabilization of Pakistan, which has become for the U.S., the "central front" on the War on Terrorism, much like Iraq was constructed before the 2003 war.

TNITC masadi

Regards

There is only one element that could point to a RAW role in the attack. The rocket fired at the bus missed the target, and it cannot happen if it were fired by an ISI trained jihadi.

Pleading for sense of proportion

////////////////

When paki jihadis killed a two hundred in mumbai, the paki journalists and others on chowk asked a very relevant question, why india is making such a big issue, it is not a big issue here in pakistan, becasue several thousands die each month in jihadic killings.

Now in the case of srilankan attack, no cricketer died..what is the big deal.

It is time that the pakis go back and watch a few public beheadings in swat, see a few more music stores blown up. I do hope that the jihadi council will rule that cricket is haram. Then there will be not even a whimper from the tahmeds of chowk. All earlier cricketers will be like abdus salam, no one will talk about them.

#179 tahmed32

[hamidm: namaz doesnt cause terrorism. lawlessness does.

granted traditional "islam" in pakistan is a bogus religion, a tit-for-tat deal with Allah. i.e. I say my prayers, you - Allah - watch out for me; I circle around in mecca, you throw away all my traffic tickets. And it goes downhill from there - tasbih, pir and so forth.]

It is truly strange, is it not, that nobody has caught up to this "core message" of Islam in 1400 years? And if the muslim public have not caught on to this revolutionary "There is but one God, Fullstop" message in 1400 years, and have always been jihadic and barbaric, then what hope is there that they will any time in the future? I don't think Tahmed's one-liner koran is going to appeal to the masses.

[but that is no worse than any other religion, and a hell of a lot better than naked men running around exposing themselves as they do in india.]

No, idiot. You have to take off your jihadic hat and start thinking like a human being. Actually ellora took the words out of my mouth. The naked sadhus might appeal less to your or Hamid's aesthetic sense than white nudists, but the important point is that they are harmless, they are not trying to convert you or kill you, unlike your fellow journeymen and co-students of the same textbook - the mullas.

"and a hell of a lot better than naked men running around exposing themselves as they do in india."

Those naked men don't behead/blow up guests. In that regard they are better than many devout people. Perhaps the first step to fighting terrorism is to get one's priorities straight.

Re: # 187
Riaz...
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/fs2008/failed_states_ranking.j pg
May be little better now (within 5)....

beduinoid barbarian, your brothers who were involved in Mumbai incident, used un-armed civilians as shield. Mumbai is very crowded place. It is not very easy to handle situation like this, without sacrificing lives of large number of common people. Furhermore that area (Noriman point etc.) is at sea face and the threat perception was very low. Nobody has ever thought that jihadis will arrive through sea route ( none of islamic heroes and your national icons like ghaznavi, baboor, bin kashem etc...fought using sea route only. Who will imagine that Pakis will deviate from their national heroes) and reach close to two of the most crowded railway stations ( VT/CST and Churchgate)....
India being democracy, the ruling political party have to see that the number of human casualty is kept as low as possible. Otherwise, they will loose next election. The lesson from 1993 blasts was enough for Congress...

I think, you need to know a good democratic setup...
as beduine clone/musla your statement is quite prredictable. but then you know someother language than urdooo....some browing in internet is enough....

Nobody is claiming Mumbai and Lahore incidents are similar...apart from couple of police, nobody died in Lahore...

Can you make people believe a gang of 12/13 gunman failed to burst a single tyre of the bus or hurl a single granade properly under the vehicle, if they wanted to kill the players?

all this drama will not save your parents and relatives from Hellfire and other missile attacks from ISAF....


hamid...
so, these are very acute problems, that too only the non- muslas face?...
what about some positive agenda? like, if some one, keeps faith in arabic moon god and his last messanger, he will not suffer from any desease, he will not die, he will always be young etc... something on earth, not in arabic heaven....

While it is tempting to compare Lahore with Mumbai superficially, it does not hold when you realize that Mumbai remained under siege for more than two days by less than a dozen attackers and the Indian security forces were rendered completely helpless. Although it was clearly a security lapse in Lahore, it bears very little resemblance to Mumbai. And stretching it to conclude that Pak is a failed state is just self-serving exaggeration by India’s Congress leaders and other Indians engaging in wishful thinking.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 185

nkg,

..... repent, you infidel! ...... this is what the koran says will happen to you if you don't believe in al-lah as the one and only god and mohammad (pbuhahc) as his last messenger :

" Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build a house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof.

Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them.

Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand.

The fruit of thy land, and all thy labors, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway:

so that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

Allah shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.............."

.......... worried? scared? ...... so give up your idolatary and join the ranks of the true believers ...... you can still be saved

Re: # 180
tahemd...
whether you admit it or not, world knows this as "Islamic" barbarism/terrorism and the inspiration is KoRun etc....whatever way you may try to defend source of problem, the muulah's has not invented KoRun or verses for KoRun, which incites people to kill others in the name of god. India do not lack god fearing people. But then, that has not culminated bloodthirsty animals....
there is no dearth of countries on earth, which is ruled by military dictators (North Koreas was under military dictator for long time....). That has not made them barbaric animals....


Hamid,
whether you pray 5 times or 1 time, can you ignore the core message of islam and deviate from the deeds of Muhammed? Simply no...Anyhow keep trying your best to formulate special musla...

Riaz Haq sahib,

There has been a lot of discussion in India by former RAW officials to launch covert actions inside Pakistan after Mumbai.

Why shud RAW retaliate for an operation that was carried out by itself (as per you guys)

REgards

Tahmed sahib:

I did not know what your objective was in your post to Hamidm sahib. By all means continue your slugfest. You by now know my views on religion. It does not bother me, and I do not bother it. There is a symbiotic relationship and I leave at that.

anil sahib: i would not mention hinduism - but given the ease with which your countrymen (lesser "insaan" than you) ridicule islam, i dont see any reason to be respectful of hinduism either. and i honestly do think that islam is a simpler religion (fewer stupid rituals) than most - hinduism and roman catholicism in particular.

Re: # 179

Tahmed sahib:

"...but that is no worse than any other religion, and a hell of a lot better than naked men running around exposing themselves as they do in india..."

Why must you discuss your Islam with reference to other religion?

I am certain you have cave dweller version to Masadi version to yours to Hamidm version. Believer me there is enough for you make your points and counter points.

This urge to discuss Islam seems to me reflects an unnecessary complex. Now please don't take this as an expression of interest to criticize you or your religion. It is an observation. I could not care, if you had said seven times around Shiva Lingham, or rat worshipping temple. They both have rituals which some like me could not care less.

although i agree mosques should be abolished in pakistan - they are the mullahs license to impose himself through the loudspeaker on the community in most cases, and terrorist hideouts (as in lal masjid) at worst.

but these terrorists were not created by the mosque - they were created by duds like hamid gul. the mosque merely nurtured them.

hamidm: namaz doesnt cause terrorism. lawlessness does.

granted traditional "islam" in pakistan is a bogus religion, a tit-for-tat deal with Allah. i.e. I say my prayers, you - Allah - watch out for me; I circle around in mecca, you throw away all my traffic tickets. And it goes downhill from there - tasbih, pir and so forth. but that is no worse than any other religion, and a hell of a lot better than naked men running around exposing themselves as they do in india.

trouble in pakistan is, as i keep saying, is your (and mine) military cousins. those duds sowed the seed that Pakistan is now reaping.

Re: # 172
PM...
Anti-state actors are fine, but why they will collaborate with India? Can Naxalites in central India be used by Paki jihadi heroes like Hamid Gul?
Ans: No. You need muslas in India to assist the upper management in Pakistan and top management in Saudi arabia of the Jihadi/Islamic Organisation...

Re: # 175

tahmed mian,

.... it is not just the mullah who is out to screw the nation, it is the tens of millions of people who offer their friday prayers behind them ...... the mullah is just a catalyst who fires up the mohammedans to do what comes naturally to them ...... like i always say, "namaz tamam burai ki jar hai " (namaz, or salat as they call it nowadays, is the root cause of all evil) ......... moslems, or muslims as they like to be called, get worked up very easily because they go through this indoctrination five times a day, day after day after day ..... therefore, the only way we can cut down on this religious fanaticism and frenzy is by restricting namaz to once a week on fridays ..... what do you say?

#170 iron mask/nemesis3: thank God for Jinnah. that is all I can say.

RiazHaq: the attack had all the characteristics of the mumbai attack which even the pakistan government (after hemming and hawing for weeks) admits. so - if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a fcuking duck. or one of the fcuking "muslim brother" of yours whom you refuse to recognize by pointing to RAW, Sri Lankans and what not.

Like too many Pakistanis, you are a coward who refuses to face reality - the reality is that the mullah is out to screw the nation.

The causes of deep dissatisfaction among Pakistanis in Pakistan are highlighted by a rising sense of insecurity and loss of confidence from incidents such as the attack on Sri Lanka's team yesterday.

While it is possible that Pakistani militants or political opponents of the PPP carried out this shocking and tragic attack, external elements from India or Sri Lanks can not be ruled out. In fact, the investigators should not rule out anything immediately and pursue all leads until they have good preliminary results.

There has been a lot of discussion in India by former RAW officials to launch covert actions inside Pakistan after Mumbai. And, lately, the Tamil rebels have also been under a lot pressure in Sri Lanks by recent successes of the Lankan military. There are multiple external players with strong motivation to launch such an attack.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

There'll be alot of
hogwash pointless misleading and petty dissections of the event...

Why not teach Pakis humanity and chivalary...

then you won't need all these measures.

re. nkg #160:
"Can you find any non [Muslim] locality in Lahore (mini india), which can be used as buffer to carry out attack?"

A non-Mulsim (mini-India) locality/buffer isn't a requirement for carrying out such an attack. Any old anti-State organization will do, thank you very much. And don't worry, I'm sure that financers don't leaving their business cards or otherwise reveal their identity even to their handmaidens.

#169 Posted by tahmed32

You are talking out of context.

Both Indian and Paki attacks were planned in Pakistan by Pakistanis. Pakis are rightly berated for planning these attacks in India. As for Pakistan, you know how shit-scared are your army and police of these stinking jehadis.(If the youtube video could throw some light on your wisdom.)

Why should Indians be happy about the incidence? Sportsmen were attacked and that too non-pakis. Everyone is doing "sheee thhoooooo" to your akas (spitting on your face)

Re: # 169 no tahmed32, you are absolutely wrong in your assertions and characterisations.

Butt heck who gives flying waltzing matilda about what you think these days!

iron_mask #168 i see that these terrorist attacks, invovling the killing and maiming of people in real life, give you indians so much joy: When the attacks occur in india, you can berate pakistan for planning them; when they occur in pakistan, you can berate pakistan for incompetence.

Happy, happy, joy, joy
Other people's tragedies are great
When you are a meesna indian boy.

Angry Chris Broad says cricketers and officials were left as 'sitting ducks' by Pakistan
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5845201.ec e

apparently the Pakistani Cops behaved like a bunch of cowards, and left the team and officials to do their own thing.


read the interacts on The-Times.

Chris Broad, the English cricket referee caught in the middle of the Lahore terror attack, railed against the Pakistani authorities today for leaving players and match officials as “sitting ducks� because of poor security.

Six players and a British assistant coach were hurt in yesterday's attack, which also left six Pakistani policemen and two civilians dead.

Looking exhausted, the former England opening batsman told a press conference shortly after arriving at Manchester Airport that he had an inkling there may be trouble during the Test series and had been assured by high ranking officials that they would be afforded "presidential-style" security.


He accused the Pakistani police of abandoning the cricketers and match officials as the terrorists' bullets pinged off their vehicle in an alarming fashion. He said he was "extremely angry".

Broad, who was acting as International Cricket Council match referee for the series between Pakistan and Sri Lanka, was with the umpires and other match officials in a minibus and following the Sri Lankan team coach when it was ambushed by more than a dozen terrorists close to the Gaddafi Stadium.

He said he was left with three emotions. The initial reaction was "absolute shock" at the extraordinary events of the previous 24 hours, followed by sadness, particularly at the loss of their driver, and anger at the inadequacy of the Pakistani security services.

"When we were in the van we were not aware of what was going on outside. After the incident, when we were able to watch the television pictures, we could quite clearly see the white van we were in next to the white ambulance in the middle of the roundabout with terrorists shooting past the van and sometimes into the van, and not a sign of a policeman anywhere.

"They had clearly gone and left the scene and left us as sitting ducks. I am extremely angry. Questions need to be asked of Pakistani security - it wasn't there when we needed it. It was appalling."

Broad, 51, also described how he and the umpires, Simon Taufel and Steve Davis, dived for the floor of the van when the shooting started, adding that the bullets "popped alarmingly off the metal vehicle".

"I am extremely fortunate to be here today," he said, "as are Simom Taufel and the other match officials. We were all in the bus at the same time."

At one point, Broad said, the side door opened and a police officer threw himself into the van. He shouted to the officer to take over the driving seat and manoeuvre the vehicle to safety but received a reply in broken English that he could not drive.

Ad-homeniusm and jumping to coclusions...??


LOL


who said they were source of terrorism....?


...Terrorisim in pakistan is a multi-dimensional phenomenan

from International politics , to distorted visions , to internal tensions .....

Re: # 164
afat...
if that is source of terrorism, why don't you dismantle these ghettoes?...I don't think india will mind another million refugees....at least, as musla country, you can drive them away using blashphemy law....
On the contrary, for India, it is not possible for driving out entire musla population from its territory...rather, musla population is growing rapidly...so, the problem will be there (for India) and may worsen in future unless and until they are kept in jials and police keep strict vigil on musla ghettoes....

Re: # 12
Akbar..
yeh, India has even composed KoRun, gangwar (Jihad) ...which is plauging musla countries...what to do? but is this theory saving you a** from hellfire missiles from western border?

LOL


.... yes there are Packets of non-muslims living in and around Lahore.....but thats beside the point....

there is a famous India-Gully right in the middle ...of Anarkali selling ' smuggled indian goods ' ...


so that argument actually does not holds water...

Re: # 158
Iron...
Indira Gandhi was murdered in broad day light...the murderer was hanged a decade later...if the killer of the "most powerful PM" of India enjoys so much judicial inefficiency, then what will be the fate of common citizen...FBI wants to poke nose into India as well. Once, they force into Indo-Pak matters, they will be successful...India had deferred it so far...We don't know about the future...

#12 Posted by Akbarhussain

What forced you out of the cave? Is it very hot inside? Did you brush your teeth? See you are stinking!!

By the way

you missed the second part

http://thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=165196



.... where the security Lapse , has been put rightly on Mr Taseer ... as he juggled with the inplace security arrangement ....for local political brownie scoring , undermining the Pakistan's reputation.

he could have done that ..... AFTER the team has left..

Re: # 157
India houses large number of muslas...so, it is easy for Paki jihadis to use these musla ghettoes (mini-pakistans) within indian administered areas (thanks to peculiar secularism, Indians practise)...Is there anything such available in Pakistan? Indian police arrested the indian muslas, who were involved in the latest Mumbai attack...

Can you find any non musla locality in Lahore (mini india), which can be used as buffer to carry out attack?

not only that...


yes its true, Pakistan has yet to figure out many riddles.
from the Assisination of Liaqat Ali khan ,...to the murder of BB .


But Like I said, lets wait...


...But the fact of the matter is , India is a Prime Suspect , and it does have a motive .....ability ....and will to do it.....

Re: # 157 has Pakistan figured out who killed BiBi, as yet?

I guess, it is still waiting for the UN, Interpol, FBI, CIA, etc etc etc to file in their reports.

Afat you are one of a kind LoL!

"how RAW can arrange logistics deep inside Pakistan"

the same way ISI arranged for the Mumbai attacks......


smugglers crossing over from whaga Border are a common catch....


and India Sure has a motive ...


but lets wait , for the results of proper investigations to come out, unlike Indians who started within minutes ....blaming pakistan...


No....??.....Yes...!!

what you say...??

Interesting reports from The News today:

(1) Govt was warned about attack but did nothing: Ansar Abbasi

excerpt:

"However, after the recent imposition of governor's rule, not only the chief secretary and the inspector general police were changed but also the whole lot of police officers in Lahore, including the CCPO, SP (operations) and six other SPs, who were replaced by officers some of whom enjoy highly stinking reputation.

There is no explanation offered so far by any government authority as to why the warning of the CID was overlooked this time when the Punjab was ruled by Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer.

A two-day visit of this correspondent to Lahore shows the civilian bureaucracy there talking of how the civilian administration and police have been (mis)used by the provincial administration for political wheeling-dealing since the imposition of governor's rule in the Punjab.

"Keeping in view the CID source report, the terrorist attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team is a clear FIR against the Punjab governor and his administration," one of these officials commented."
-----------------------

Can someone please tell me what the fcuk we are to make of this $hit:

"According to information obtained from the Interior Ministry sources, when the police escort was ready to take the Sri Lanka team to the stadium, an unknown caller told the cops to change the route and use the Gulberg road instead of the earlier fixed route of the Ferozpur road. The police, without verifying the identity of the caller, followed the new route. But they soon realised that they have fallen into the trap. These cops bore the brunt of the firing but saved the lives of the Sri Lankan players."

My best guess is that this is disinformation. Or does anyone have a better explanation as to why the cops, with a VVIP charge, would act on the instructions of an anonymous caller!?!

Also, there are conflicting reports on the number of police vans escorting the coach. Salman Taseer claims there were "half a dozen police vehicles", while the above report states there was just ONE!

If indeed there were six, or even three police vehicles, this is a new mark of incompetence on their part. We also saw video footage of gunmen firing their weapons willynilly from the grassy embankments as if they were on a shooting range. No shield. And no retaliatory fire either.

There is a case to be made for the Lankan Govt taking the Punjab govt to the ICC -- the OTHER ICC!!

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Actually Hamid Gul saheb had complete knowldge of this attack............he was the man out to defend the jehadis and throw investigation out of line by shouting yahudi and hinuds.......

Could it have been the Sondero Luminoso (Shining Path)of Peru?

#146jayp

The route can be changed if an anonymous (divine!!) call is received by an obedient, God fearing bloke;

You don't question what is written or ordered. This is part of our culture. Is'nt that sufficient!!

Afat Mian,
re. first link in #149

I have a bridge in downtown Karachi. Interested?

So finally Pakistan has achieved parity! And hence the following conspiracy theory doing the rounds.

It is instructive to see the reaction of the various parties after the Lahore shoot out in broad day light.



(a) After Mumbai, Pakistan cribbed a lot about the double standards of coutnries - they visit india for kirket but not Pakistan. Terror is both places.

The standard reply given is that India is not Pakistan, and it is terrorism in India but law and order in pakistan.



(b) Obama clarified the de-hyphenation by clearly stating it is Af-Pak.

However the pakistanis wanted Ak-Pak-India; not af-pak, pak-af, pak-af-india, apk-india-af. There were two aspects here

(i) the centrality of Pakistan - befitting its crucial, central, important, major Geo-Political Location

(ii) the re-hyphenation with India (even though historically Pakistan hated being called Indians or from the Indian Sub-continent)



(c) Now, after Lahore, it is all about the Indian Subcontinent and terror there. The Pakistani media is no longer shy about hyphenating themselves with India. They, and the people and the elite, are happy with this. They have finally clubbed themselves back with India. The message is negating (b).



Hence the following theory doing the rounds. The Lahore incident is something which the elite carried out, to suit themselves. It kills many birds with one stone (if I could use this metaphor)



(a) rehyphenation with India

(b) India bracketed as a problem nation as well, along with themselves

(c) Shariff brothers are cornered.



Also note the Shooters all 12 or 14 of them disappeared into the Lahore under belly and are not caught - even though theirpictures have been beamed all round the world.





This is a win win situation for the elite. Rejoice brothers.

Salman Taseer , diverted all the attention and Personel to Dig the cost of Rs 2 Rootis from the Sasta Tandoors.




ON the eve of 22nd January, Intelligence agencies submitted reports to the Chief Secy Punjab, Secy CM Punjab and HM Punjab on the possible attack on visiting Sri lankan Players en route to stadium/hotel from either destination. This is being considered one of the BEST intelligence reports ever, submitted to the Punjab Gov. because of highly specific nature and the precise area where the focus was to be directed.

http://www.jang.net/jm/3-4-2009/pic.asp?picname=12_11.gif


It clearly indicates the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) of India would hit the SL players somewhere between PC lahore and Gaddafi Stadium.
-
Just a night before the attacks were carried out, Governor Punjab, Secy Int. Rehman Malik, IG Punjab and other high officials from both Provincial and Federal Gov were holding a meeting at Governor House, Lahore, for the possible PPP-led Gov in Punjab.
High security lapse on part of Punjab Government under Salman Taseer, resulted in the attacks and subsequent worldwide mockery and we have become a laughing stock in the whole world.


Also

INSPECTOR general of police, Punjab, Sunday issued transfer and posting orders of a number of officers. Imran Mahmood has been posted as Additonal SP Investigation, city, Lahore, Rana Ahmad Hassan as additional SP Operations city, Lahore, Abdul Jabbar as additional SP Operations, Iqbal Town, Lahore, Syed Ali Nasir Rizvi as additional SP Investigation, Model Town, Lahore, Ijaz Ahmad as additional SP Operations Civil Lines, Lahore, Rommel Akram as additonal SP Operations Cantt, Lahore, Ghulam Azfar as SSP, VVIP Security, Lahore, Muhammad Azhar Akram as additional SP Investigation, Sadar, Lahore, Ahmad Nasir Aziz Virk as additional SP Operations, Saddar, Lahore, Ahsan Younas as additional SP, Security, Lahore, Muhammad Ali Nekokara as PSO to the IGP and Hamayun Bashir Tarar has been posted as AIG Vigilance, Police Headquarters, Punjab. Mansoor-ul Haq Rana and Suhail Akhtar have been closed to Police Headquarters, Punjab.

http://thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=165196


officers including SSP vvip security was changed(ssp vvip security normally deals with the security of cricket teams)



The punjab government(playboy regime) was given a warning 48 hours about the attack that there might be a major terrorist activity in the city but salman taseer simply ignored it





ub baqi angerizee say humaray Jabray dukhney lagey heen.


mukhtasarn , Janab Izat Maab Salman Taseer sahib ney lagta hey , tamam Intelligence key loogon ko Sastay Tandoor say bramad rootiyaan gineney per laga diyaa thaa..


iskay baray meen kiyaa khiyal hey..

#147 and as for zardari "resolving differences" with nawaz sharif over beer - that is what zardari tried to do! i.e. divide up Pakistan into fiefdoms of two families, zardari and nawaz sharif, disenfranchising the pakistani public (which includes you and your general cousins, rest assured). so - if you knew your self interest, you would be thanking your stars that your prescription to solving national problems did not work.

#135 hamidm: if musharraf had been smart (as opposed to over-smart), he would have kept his word the first time around and stepped down and called elections.

Had he done this - he would have served out his remaining days as military chief in honor for saving the nation from what Nawaz Sharif was then (a myopic, self-promoting individual). And he could then have run for elections and no doubt won popular support for a people thirsting for a public spirited individual as opposed to a myopic, self-centered clown which he has now proved to be.

Nawaz Sharif, to his credit, has clearly learnt his lessons the hard-way, and is much better positioned to emerge the winner in the next elections. And no - drinking only fcuks your liver, doesnt turn myopic, self-centered clowns into public spirited individuals.

Anonymous call led police to change route of SL team's bus'
4 Mar 2009, 1313 hrs IST, PTI
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
LAHORE: A last minute call by an unidentified person led the city police to change the route of the bus taking the Sri Lankan cricket team to
Gaddafi stadium here, a Pakistan media report said on Wednesday.

An unknown caller asked police escorting the Sri Lankan team to use the Gulberg route leading to the stadium instead of travelling along Ferozpur road as had been decided earlier, The News daily quoted interior ministry sources as saying.

Police followed the caller's instructions without ascertaining his identity, the report said. This led to the police falling into a "trap", the sources said.

//////////////// from jang////////////

Can any one believe this, the high security route planned ahead was changed following instructions from an anonymous caller.

One thing is sure, the person who said this will disappear or will retract the statement within 24 hours.

Take it from me, the pakiland expert.

Re: # 142

nkg

There is a big difference between violence in india and terrorism in pakistan. In pakistan it is supported by the state. See the case of swat, for years they said that the pakis do not have fm band stations to block out radio mullah. Now suddenly they have it. The radio mullah was supported by isi as part strategic depth.

Then again, the jihadi madrassas are supported by the isi as production house for the jihadis.

In pakistan the terror inside and out side is state sponsored. In india we have no such terror out fits now.

For pakistan, this attack is a path to jihadic heaven, progressively the airlines have cancelled their schedules, hardly any one leaves the country on tourist visas, hardly any investors come to teh country, exports are limited because quality surveyors refuse to go to pakiland...now the sports..then again other than cricket no other sports person from othert countries go there...so for pakistan it is not such a biog deal as it is made out to be.

It is just another mile stone in the terminal decline till re-sizing of poakistan takes place.

This recent attack on the Sri Lankan Cricket team has been the latest, and possibly the most effective one by the Military-ISI-Zardari nexus. Considering the amount of inbreeding over generations, this was positively brilliant. It achieves many goals with a single strike.

I was reminded of how I used to be bewildered at the blatant inaction by the Indian government towards the Naxalites. I remebered how frustated I used to be until one day I realized that the most effective anti-Naxal strategy was indeed inaction. Ignore the situation, and deny the Naxalites the importance they seek. Let the problem be a chronic low-grade inflammation, rather than giving it the momentum it needs to catch fire and become bigger.

The ISI has been doing exactly that to the Indian government over the last few years. A chronic, low grade pain that the Indian government has studiously ignored, and made intermittent and never-ending public pronouncements of "peace deals" and other associated nonsense. Not good enough for the ISI. They needed something that would REALLY get India's attention, and hopefully damage it as well. The Mumbai thing, while filling the Paki hearts with elation, was slowly subsiding into chronic fact-finding and investigations. More was needed. Something that would goad the Indian politicians into making the wrong move out of sheer anger (anger usually comes from fear). Something that would hit them where it REALLY hurt........ MONEY!! Well how about scuttling the behemoth money-maker - the IPL? How about the Commonwealth Games in New Delhi slated for 2010? If these could be scuttled, not only would it be a HUGE monetary loss for India, but the adverse publicity it would generate would steer billions of dollars of business AWAY from India. BINGO!

It was interesting that NONE of the Sri Lankan players were killed. Killing them was never part of the plan. Just scaring them was enough.

Next move....UPA government. Unlike Chowk Pakis, "saccular" Lalu would find it difficult to blame this one on Hindus. So the UPA head honchos are mulling it over with Sonia.

The plot thickens....

Re: # 106
Stuka...
"Not really. If the state of Pakistan was defined as a state for Muslims (rather than Islam), it did not have to pass an objectives resolution defining Islam as the defining ideology. Other Muslim countries (Egypt, Turkey, Maldives etc.) do not do so...."
LOL...so, you want to make a nation/state exclusive for muslas and Islam will not play any role in the affair of that state!!!! You are real DH....

Re: # 138
Jay P...
Srilanka was once rocked with LTTE violence and Australia refuged to tour Srilanka...I still support the action of Lankan players and board...India refuged to tour Pakistan on political ground rather then security issues...Mind that, last year, Jaipur blast happenned during IPL and even Shane Warne and Greme Smith wanted to withdraw from IPL...Now, fate of IPL is uncertain too....

How the terrorists duped security

Wednesday, March 04, 2009

By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: A telephone call from an unknown phone number by an unknown man just before the Sri Lankan team started its journey towards the stadium was the sole reason behind the sudden change of route earlier fixed for the visiting team, which landed all of them in the deadly trap.


////from jang, head lines today////////////

No sir, no one is going to change the planned route based on an unlnown phone call. Take it from me, it was from a high up in the paki military, isi is the culprit.

n the other hand, a senior PPP MNA from Sindh Nabeel Gabol has blamed India in so many words for having carried out Tuesday’s attack on the Sri Lankan team. Gabol, while speaking on the Geo television, said: ìThe Lahore incident was a replay of the 26/11 attack and most likely carried out by Indian intelligence agents. I am saying so because of the fact that those investigating the gory incident have already recovered some Indian-made weapons as well as food items from the crime scene.�

In a related development, there were reports that former Inspector General of Punjab Shaukat Javed, who was sent home after the imposition of governor’s rule, had warned the provincial authorities in an official communiquÈ on Jan 22, 2009 that the RAW agents in Pakistan might target the Sri Lankan cricket team during its tour to Pakistan.

/////from jang////////////////

that is really pathetic. The indian investigation into mumbai found paki food items in the jihadis possession. All that the paki police could come up is the same...poverty of imagination..

Earlier on Wednesday, Pakistan offered a reward of 125,000 dollars for information about the militants behind a deadly ambush directed against Sri Lanka's cricket team, AP reported.

"The government of Punjab will give a cash prize of 10 million rupees (125,000 dollars) to anyone providing authentic information about the accused persons or their accomplices," said the Punjab government in an advertisement.

////////////////////////////from jang//////////////

I am sure that offer of money will work. Pakistan has collected a lot of money and distributed to the isi and the army for handing over pakis to the US. This time isi will collect money from paki govt...money is money according to the book.

Who is behind it..elementary ..it is ISI


The isi only did the mumbai job,a colnel in the paki army did the coordination work, sadatulla I recall his name and he has admitted to being the coordinator.

The task team comprised nearly twenty, one half was sent top mumbai and the other was to attack the indian cricket team supposed to visit pakiland. The stupid srilankans to show their affinioty for the pakis accepted to replace indians.

One has to take note that at the last moment, the route of teh bus carrying the players was changed, and no one other than isi could have done that.

It is this last act which made sure that adequate police protection is not there for the bus.

It was only the budha that saved the sri lanksns, the rocket fired at the bus, missed and that is why they are live today.

The intire task is an isi job, and no one other than the gul saab was in prime news telling it is donme by the indians.

the rpompteness with which the blame for india came out is a clear indication of the publicity coordination by the isi.

Re: # 113
akc...
apart from winning world cup cricket, had he (Imran Khan) done something, which makes him notable in public space? we used to mock at tamilians and telegus for their fondness to filmstars in politics...I think, politics is a full time profession and any tom dick and harry should not enter in that arena to encash success in another field...

Re: # 127
mike...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4397586.stm
What to do with such people?

Re: # 131

tahmed,

.... sorry, i must have missed your post .... come again .....

..... but don't you agree that musharraf was a lot more competent than these clowns? .... i think he should have followed the example of omar and saddam and eliminated his political opponents ...... if he had done that we wouldn't be where we are today ..... unfortunately, we pakis can't even produce a decent dictator who can take care of business like hafiz asad or hosni mubarak ......... let's see how kiyani turns out ........

..... and don't be talking bad about drinking .... as the great serbian leader slobodan milosovic said about the moslem ibrahim izetnegovich, "how can you sit down and have a dialog with somone who doesn't drink" ........ that might be the problem between the pehalwan brothers and the bhutto's kleptomaniac husband .........

Re: # 52
regards...
the lesson muslas learn from arabic moon god's revealitions and the practical session they experience during arabic festivals (most of these festivals are festival of bloodshed and butchery) every year, is enough to indoctrine as criminal...I have stayed in a musla house and seen their kids (as young as 8/9 years old) enjoying it (animal butchery)...in similar situation, indian kids will get scared and will try to run away from the scene....no wonder, muslas do not hesitate to resort to bloodshed at slightest pretext in day to day life......

Today, we have seen the famed Pakistani hospitality on the streets of Lahore

Zardari has not done anything wrong.

Army will not take over in Pakistan!

Hamidm: i see you ignored my post concerning your hypocritical and absurd conflation of the rule of law with terrorism - the excuse used by your hero musharraf to prolong his incompetent and disastrous dictatorship in pakistan.

#127 as for the pakistan army coming back to power as a result of zardari's insane attempts at becoming king zardari - it is indeed quite likely. the only thing is - civil society in pakistan is stronger and more alert to the problems of army rule than it ever was in the past. and that is the only hope for Pakistan now.

mike #127 thanks for your comments. your genuine concern for events in Pakistan tells the difference between genuine americans and visa "american", sri ram _ar_jun62 and "look i can drink so i must be cool" hamidm.

on sept 11th 2008, there was an op-ed in the "liberal" daily times...the writer, an ex-army type, said pakiland would keep the jihadi infrastructure around until kashmir wasn't resolved the way pakiland wanted..

blowback is a female dog, isn't it?

150 arrested in late-night crackdown
Published: March 04, 2009

LAHORE - More than 150 people, most of them Pathans, have been taken into custody from different parts of the city during late night search operation launched by the police in connection with the attack on Sri Lankan cricket team.
Police were blindly hunting the suspected persons especially from the outskirts of the city, which is evident from the high numbers of arrests during two to three hours night search operation.
Massive search operation was launched on the directions of the IGP Punjab following reports that the terrorists who attacked the Sri Lankan cricket team were living in rented houses and were using these houses as hideout after completing their target. Police were tipped off about the possible involvement of Pathans in the Liberty Chowk attack that claimed seven innocent lives. A large number of arrests came from the localities of Mecca Colony near Gulberg, Shafiqabad, Basti Syeden Shah, Kahna, Nawan Kot and Shahdara area. The police started manhunt in the said areas late night. The other areas on which police focused are Township, Green Town, Thokar, Johar Town, Faisal Town flats, Mughalpura, Shadbagh, the surroundings of Railway Station, Badami Bagh, Baghbanpura, and Lower Mall.
The police took into custody most of those people who were residing without submitting their identity cards. More than two dozens were arrested from the rented flats and houses of Mecca Colony, a locality situated hardly two kilometers away from the posh area of Gulberg. Police officials got information that a group of terrorists had fled toward the Seven-up Phattak. Police officials also recovered some hand grenades, klashnikovs, and dozens of bullets some yards away from Seven-up Phattak.
Police were also tipped off about the presence of some suspects in some areas of Model Town, Garden Town, Liaqat Abad and Faisal Town. Heavy contingent of police along with ladders and searchlights entered the flats and rented houses and took into custody many people staying there without showing identification.
Arrest of several suspects also came when police raided many rented houses in Shafiqabad area especially the gypsy colonies where Pathans reside.

Another terrorist/Judaists attack in Pakistan and many dead policemen and bystanders.

Many are (myself include) genuinely sorry and worried about Pakistani state and her good people.

Many stupid will gloat.

Whose fault?

American drone attacks?
Bush War on terror?
Foreign hand (i.e. Indian RAW)?
Past British colonial rule?
mossad?
etc etc


Who wins?

Pakistani Army. It will be in power within a year and will blackmail US for billions sham fight with the monster they had created.

rf,

The bit of stupidity called the Objectives Resolution was passed in March 1949. Jinnah was barely cold in his grave when LAK violated everything Jinnah had ever believed in.

Re: # 113

cheema sahib,

.... in general i agree with you that a most moslem men, like the holy prophet himself (pbuhahc), find religion after they pass the age of forty ..... but there are a few exceptions ..... over this weekend i had a reunion of sorts with some old classmates of mine who are in their early fiftees and .... how do i put it - we had a decadent time! .... alhamdolillah, if we were not headed for hell before, surely we are half way there now ..........

Re: # 112

bubba mian,

.... no, i don't agree..... let me quote sheikh rashid, the man who would have liberated kashmir if they let him, "if india comes, we will destroy him!" (he said that in english)

cheema sahib: i assume you learnt this amazing fact about what happens to pakistani males at the age of 40 as part of your medical studies. how incredible is mother nature!! it can even adjust human behavior by looking up the passport!!

pmishra: it is absurd to think that skin color had anything to do with it. it could just as easily have been gora brits that the scum attacked. because their target was ultimately pakistan - and any high profile international visitor serves their evil purpose.

please dont condemn the freedom fighters - they are only reacting to their terrible situation - we must seek them out and politely ask what the "root cause" is. Maybe the Sri Lanka cricket team has oppressed them in some deep and significant way - lets fact it, these are a bunch of small and dark skinned idolaters. Maybe just looking at these people is difficult for the brave jihadis?

#119 below is in response to #113 and #114

"Why is it so?"


Because their 'liberalism' less a thought out moral conviction and more an excuse for indulgence.

And the hunger for moral foundations and convictions asserts itself once the passion for indulgences proves to be the shallow thing it is and Islam fills that role.

stuka, turkey and iran are other such countries where the role of Islam is debated. Turkey because of Kamal Turk's personal legacy (it should fade away over time), iran because the embers of the old Persian civilization still keep glowing (which is simply amazing - Persia must have been an exceptionally strong culture before Islam came in).

Guess one can add Malaysia and Indonesia too since those countries became Muslim without adopting Islam, and are only now embracing Islam seriously thanks to global communication revolution.

So among turks, iranians, malaysians, and indonesians you will find some genuine discussion about the role of Islam in the state. Among Pakistanis it is mostly shadow boxing.

HamidM: Sorry, my ignorance then. I guess I always see Pakistanis discussion of what it means to be Pakistani, but I never saw any other Muslim discuss his nationhood like that. Also, there seems to be friction on the role Islam should play..other Musllim countries seem to have decided what role it is to play..

Junaid Jamshed was like that too, the guy from Vital Signs, though I don't know that he had passed 40 yet.

akc, some of us genuine admirers of yours are going to keep an eye on you. Because the theory is that a Muslim who does not (re)discover 'his' or 'her' rational and good Islam should be both quite rare and quite irrelevant among Muslims. :)

Cheema:

Why is it so? I know that there is risk aversion that comes with age.

In Imran Khan's case, his image makers when he got out Cricket, and entered politics, probably told him that he must give up his playboy image. Imran Khan went overboard in cleaning his image, and soon had to deal with his too much Pathani pride to back track. Now it is too late.

Imran Khan is a typical example of what happens to Pakistani men ... time and time again ... they start out 'posing' to be liberal, the minute they pass 40, suddenly they 'rediscover' their Islam ... they become 'born-agains' and use the same old arguments that "I am a muslim because I have thought and rationalised the process and not just muslim by birth" .... the phenomenon is endemic, and sadly contagious too

I think it is rather pathetic personally ... but that's just my humble opinion on the subject

Re: # 107 Posted by hamidm2 on March 3, 2009 11:53:33 am

hamid mian,

so you want [.. that is why i have often called for the invasion of saudi arabia and putting mecca and medina under un control ..] but not puristan. Why?

i am not familiar with eygypt's diverse ethnicity. puristan has so many different ethnic group that it is nearly impossible to check the length of someone's pubic hair. and then, who will be the "nai". most pakis will agree with you on hanging those who create hatred, and limited use of the masjids. but where do we find such "mai ka laal?" do you think that your grandpa "gopindanath whatever" had any such genes in him that is left amongst the current generation of pakis. me thinks that those who can clean puristan are unfortunately on the other side of the dmz line.

do you remember the fight between aslam pehelwaan (younger brother of rustom-e-zaman, bholou pehelwaan) and japanese wrestler inoki, and how that fight ended in less than a minute, with aslam crying for his life, due to his dislocated shoulder. all the pooh-paah of the punjoos are well recorded, hamid mian. would you not agree?

Re: # 109

Hamidm sahib:

".... imran khan is hamid gul's protege .....is an imbecile! ..."

Do you think shalwar does that to men?

yaar when is pakistan going away....just give a friggin date already....the palce is a friggin headache for pakistanis and everyone else...hurry up with it already!!

Re: # 105

naqshbandi mian,

.... imran khan is an apologist for the taliban and is constantly going on and on about the american-hindoo-zionist conspiracy to destabilize pakistan ..... he is hamid gul's protege ......... today he was on tv insisting that there is a 'foreign hand' behind the lahore attack .... the man is an imbecile!

"pakistan is actually a little better in that respect, even though ahmedis are second class citizens ..."

and Christians, and other religious minorities.

a non-Muslim can't be a citizen of Maldives? Damn, I'm glad I gave up my dream of moving there.

Re: # 106

stuka mian,

.... the egyptian constitution explicitly states islam to be the official state religion and a 1980 amendment clearly states that all laws will be in accordance with the koran and sharia ........... with the exceptiion of turkey all moslem states have more or less the same stipulations ..... the 2008 constituion of maldives states that "a non-Muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives" ...... pakistan is actually a little better in that respect, even though ahmedis are second class citizens .........

.... this disease is universal among all moslems.... that is why i have often called for the invasion of saudi arabia and putting mecca and medina under un control ........

"that may be your view. I don't know about what most Pakistanis thinking on this. maybe the state was dead on arrival in that sense."

Not really. If the state of Pakistan was defined as a state for Muslims (rather than Islam), it did not have to pass an objectives resolution defining Islam as the defining ideology. Other Muslim countries (Egypt, Turkey, Maldives etc.) do not do so.

hamidm,

i agree that this was the final straw and a day of shame but i don't know why you have it in for imran khan?

anyway i think --and i may formulate my thoughts in an article for chowk--that the state should begin by declaring jihad on the wahabis/salafis by closing down ALL madrassahs linked to those schools of thought including the deobandi and tableeghis. the only institution that can do that is the army. so declare martial law. hang ALL the politicians, political mullahs and start from scratch. Saddam knew the Shia (in his case) mullahs in Iraq were troublecausers so he kept them on a tight leash. Kiyani can do the same to the Ahle Hadith/Salafis/Wahabis/Deos in Pakistan.

A highly placed Pakistani official suggested that this terrorist attack may have been planned and executed by RAW of India as "tit for tat" response for Mumbai messacare. This theory was backed by General Hamid Gul too.

Read today's Daily Times.

Who knows what happens in the dark recesses of minds of secret service agencies!. Kamath

Re: # 101
i simply restated your suggestion that we should not worry about what happens with destruction of Pakistan. I find this kind of thinking scary.

Re: # 101 and that (presumptuousness) is not a good thing....but heck, on chowk everything is allowed and happens....

Re: # 99 what is the point of your second point? You are being extremely presumptuous

Re: # 96
iron_mask,
why should I paint any scenario to you? you are the one doing the dreaming and hoping it comes true. then keep dreaming.

Re: # 98

iron mask,
two comments. first I don't see the connection between what you quoted in that report and the demise of Pakistan.

second, you are beginning to think lise us moslems: "why worry about it now? we will deal with when it happens". now that is really scary.

banjara286...something for you to read...and think about ...the tentacles of the systems are in every orifice of the body politic. The nightmare is here and now. The future is the future why worry about it when it has not as yet happened. When it does the World will deal with it then as it see best.

The attack has been recorded on closed circuit TV and should enable the Pakistani authorities to identify the terrorists and the organisation to which they belong. The Sri Lankan government has advised the team to cancel the visit and return home.

While it is too early to assess as to who might have been responsible for the attack and why, one has to recall past instances of contacts of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam with the Harkat u -Mujahideen (known as the Harkat ul Ansar before 1997), a member of the International Islamic Front of the Al Qaeda [Images], and the role played by the commercial ships of the LTTE [Images] in the 1990s in facilitating heroin smuggling from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region.

In 1993, the Indian Coast Guard intercepted an LTTE ship in which Kittu, an LTTE leader, was travelling from Karachi to the Wanni region of northern Sri Lanka [Images]. When cornered by the Coast Guard, the LTTE cadres on board the ship set fire to it and it sank.

Kittu chose to go down with the ship in order to avoid falling into the hands of the Coast Guard. Some members of the crew jumped from the sinking ship and were arrested and interrogated. The subsequent investigation brought out that the ship was carrying a consignment of arms and ammunition which was loaded by the HuM cadres at Karachi, in the presence of some officers of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence and the Pakistan navy.

Reports received in 1994-95 had indicated that the LTTE had helped the HuM in smuggling arms and ammunition in its ships to jihadi elements in southern Philippines and that in return for this the HuM and the ISI had gifted some anti-aircraft weapons, ammunition and surface-to-air missiles to the LTTE.

Since 9/11, this source for clandestine arms procurement and heroin smuggling for the LTTE has dried up due to the deployment of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation ships off Pakistan to prevent any shipping activity in support of the Al Qaeda.

The HuM continues to have an active presence in southern Philippines and the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami in the Arakan area of Myanmar and in southern Thailand. One cannot rule out the possibility of the HuM --- and possibly even the HuJI --- maintaining fraternal ties with the LTTE despite its Hindu/Christian background and past anti-Muslim policies in the areas controlled by it.

Re: # 95
"the correct answer is 1950 when Objective resolution was passed".

that may be your view. I don't know about what most Pakistanis thinking on this. maybe the state was dead on arrival in that sense.

Re: # 94 Banjara286 you are living is someother world misy....todays pakistan is a nightmare as it stands. What can be more nightmarish and more scary? Come on lets hear you give us that scenario?

Re: # 91

1971? Incorrect, the correct answer is 1950 when Objective resolution was passed.

Re: # 92
"The alternatives are just as nice as the present. Dont you think so?"

No I don't think so. But keep dreaming, and don't complain if turns into a nightmare.

Re: # 88

hamidm2

(shut down all the mosques except for friday prayers and open up all the liquor shops and opium thekas that existed in the seventies )

I second opening of all liquor shops, opium or charas thekas were never closed as for the closing of the mosque well that maybe a problem for my dear mother can forgive my merry ways but challenging her beliefs.. that is a big no no.

The great Libyan leader Muammer Qaddafi does not allow men in his country to grow facial hair beyond a certain limit, any individual found flouting the rule is apprehended and his facial hair shaved by the state.

Re: # 85 A credible argument against the "demise" of Pakistan is the probable shape of things if such a thing happened. Don't wish for something you cannot handle if happened. You might get it.


Not is possible and nothing is impossible. The world will live with and adjust to the new reality.

The days of holding the world to ransom are long gone. The Amerikans have called the bluff, the world is saying they are tired and will allow the country to go its way. Banjara286 your argument is not that very credible. The alternatives are just as nice as the present. Dont you think so?

Re: # 87

rf786,
The vision and the state that was founded in 1947 was already murdered in 1971. am I missing something?

Way to go "friendly neighbours"!
What a perfect timing!
Anyway. We will see its backlash as well, I know.

P.S: I salute those martyred policemen who gave their lives to defend the Lankans. And I am sick of Pakistani media since it's still practising "good values" of journalism, quite unlike "neighbourly" media channels.

Shame on you all:
Geo Sheo Meo!
Express 24/7 Can't EXPRESS.
DAWN is waiting for a piece of Sun.
AAJ is sticking to AAJ, not going for a substantial past.

And to them...
CNN is once again, busy in Indi-marketing! (my foot!)
BBC - God, you have lost galore, my love!
All Indian channels suck! (bastards)
-E

I kinda agree with all the Pakis in the land of the pure and here on Chowk that the Indians did it. I am hoping that the Indians finally got the fking gumption to do it.

The Sri Lankans, they deserve it for going to the land of the pure!!! They should have learnt a lesson when other teams pulled.

I am hoping that Pakis and Indians now start round 2 and hope it is a the final round where all Pakis get to enjoy the virgins and unfortunately for the Indians, they will get reincarnated and have to start from scratch. No worries - there wont be Pakis around to spoil it this time

Re: # 87

bismillah mian,

... don't be so despondent! ..... this mess can be cleaned up in six months if someone gets serious about it ....... they have to start off with hama style operations to level places like muridke, mansoora, zardari palace and raiwind farms ....... then they have to publically hang folks like hafiz hussain, hameed gul, imran khan, maulana fazloo and anyone else who sports a beard and/or shaves his pubic hair ...... next, they have to shut down all the mosques except for friday prayers and open up all the liquor shops and opium thekas that existed in the seventies ......

.... it is really quite easy; i don't know if kiyani is man enough to do it .....

Re: # 82

banjara286

Its not a desire but a concern and yes it may appear to be taking forever and I will be the winner if I am proven wrong. When we talk about natural demise of a state it means the state formed in 1947, a state which was created for all of its inhabitants to live in peace and the right to determine their fate.

Re: # 79

bubba mian,

... the answer is 'no' and i still think they should let my people go .....you have to learn to delink these issues! .....

...... hosni mubarak has been able to put a lid on the moslem brotherhoodand so has king mohammad of morocco; it can be done in pakistan too ...... we just need kiyani to step up to the plate and start by hanging terrorist supporters like imran khan and trouble makers like zardari and the pehalwan brothers .......

Re: # 83

"don't you think that the process is a a slow and steady process rather than precipitous. At least this process gives ample warning and allows various parties to take the required decisions (for or against) in order to safe guard their own perceived interests".

A credible argument against the "demise" of Pakistan is the probable shape of things if such a thing happened. Don't wish for something you cannot handle if happened. You might get it.

nb: Doing quite well, thanks. Except on days like these when I start to despair...

re. Regards #52:

"Difficult to imagine an Indian 20 year old, as most of the mumbai gang was, who will coldly kill so many without flinching. Probably they are so hardened that it seems all so easy to them."

This is actually true, IMHO. Let alone Indians-- it's difficult to imagine 20 year olds of ANY culture/nationality who would kill so many undisputed innocents so unflinchingly. Sure, there are the oddball Columbine-copycat artists in the US, but then, they're not driven by any ideological zeal.

On the other hand, I wonder how different the mindset of these kids are from, say, some US troops in Vietnam who killed obviously innocent folks there. In fact, almost every army has exhibited this behaviour, Geneva convention nothwithstanding. hmm... maybe we need to view these actions in THAT kinda context if we are to begin to understand these murderers.

I know, I know... I'm rambling. To be honest, I'm grappling with the apparent insanity of an attack such as this one, made all the more incomprehensible coming on heels of the ceasefire between the jihadis and the government.

Re: # 82 banjara286, don't you think that the process is a a slow and steady process rather than precipitous. At least this process gives ample warning and allows various parties to take the required decisions (for or against) in order to safe guard their own perceived interests.

Re: # 60
"A case of both, how unfortunate, every act of terrorism brings state of Pakistan closer to its natural demise".

rf86 sb,
Don't you think this "natural" demise is taking for ever? Maybe this is just wishful thinking on your part.

I heard a new term being used in reference to Pakistan today on the news channeles - Pakistan is the Somalia of Asia.

That is a very big drop. Even a failed state would have been better - I mean even Zimbabwe is considered a failed state and is never compared to Somalia.

This is ominous, indeed.

i think it was some sort of ISI related group thats gone AWOL...

Re: # 47 Posted by hamidm2 on March 3, 2009 5:23:52 am

Hamid mian,

Finally, I am proud of you getting it.....[ i think it is nonsense to suggest that india is behind this attack in lahore...] face the facts...punjoos are in the grip of the most insidious group who have created hatred amongst humanity….ruling elite of puristan can not handle this kind of asymmetric warfare…it is not about your usual slogan “let my people go� anymore. The continuous decay of puristan should make the community of nations get together and invite the combined military of all nations surrounding the land of the pure. This is just to save puristan from some of its own murderers. Shouldn’t the UNSC consider pakiland’s instability?

My dear Hamidm sahib:

If you need more convincing, please keep reading.

Their power could be the right stimulus package for Pakistan. They would not only seal the border, but innovate to block all air coming from east of the border. That air has the whiff of early morning railroad track activity, and that can pollute pristine minds of their daughters even inside their black tents. They will need to create “new air�, and lots of black tents. This will mean new spending and more jobs in R&D, education and manufacturing. After all someone will have to coach in new sports, new education and in creating world’s largest black tent manufacturing operation. Karachi stock exchange will be vibrant, which otherwise it simply doomed. Pakistan simply cannot lose, discards of Gopinath will make sure.

make that 4 possibilities in #75 below. i was hoping to avoid the fourth one, but for completeness needed to throw in that terrible possibility as well.

Re: # 72

Yayyyyyy .... hum spot-the-difference khel rahe hain ...
yayyyyyyyyyyy

:P

hamidm #67 Your attempts to conflate mullahism with the rule of law are absurd. Mullahs understand the meaning of habeas corpus as little as your general cousins.

I can see three possibilities for this odd behavior -

1. you normally an honest man, but are driven to hypocrisy in your attempts to promote the rule of the generals in Pakistan.
2. you normally an honest man, but are driven to hypocrisy in your obsessive compulsive hatred of islam based on childhood experiences at the hands of your "conservative" family.
3. all of the above.
4. None of the above - and you are merely dishonest by force of habit.

Re: # 67

hamidm2 Sahib

Media in Pakistan is either well paid to represent a certain view or part of the same psychotic crises which ails rest of the nation.

As per Hameed Gul, Americans were the real targets who were operating drones from the Sri Lanka bus.

"Open letter to Hamidm sahib"

My Dear Hamidm sahib:

This is the beginning of revenge of discards of Gopinath’s favorites. With Masadi & Co’s help these discards of Gopinath have been educated into developing a new favorite sport. There is no need for colonial cricket. They keep writing on the wall in their own handwriting. Please stop erasing it now, and immediately bring them to power. All will be quiet (just look across the border there were no riots in Mumbai whenever Shiv Sena ruled. The grain of brain these pehalwans have is very rare and must not be wasted by using it.

New look Hamidm sahib could be sporting a million dollar (that you may not otherwise spend) look. You may sport a flowing grey beard and wear above ankle shalwars instead of Levis or khakis. However what would you like to be served instead of scotch?

Don’t you think if you keep bringing army back, and allow pehalwans to keep taking their dangal to the street, you would see more of it? Your support for abortion rights is unheard of a good republican. Why does Pakistan get pregnant with democracy, only to be aborted?

wiseguy, there is a difference..see if you can spot it. take the blue burkha off if it can help

Re: # 69
Kya yeh itna achcha tha ki do bar post kar diya?

Dear Allah, please make the reality of shariat a reality in pakistan. Make sure the brave taliban get to rid the evil and corrupt soceity of cable television and priyanka chopra videos, make sure that girls get to read the official sentences instead of being suprised by the acid washes. Please send down the official length of the pajamas...thereis still some confusion among the paan chewing humwatnon who have red hair adn black surma and very very tight pajamas. Also please bless my new venture called "totally taliban"!! I need some r&d investment to make my flagship product, bag-o-rox. I think it will be a veritable hit with the sunday family outing to gaddafi stadium for the scheduled stonings.
ameen sum ameen
alphy

Dear Allah, please make the reality of shariat a reality in pakistan. Make sure the brave taliban get to rid the evil and corrupt soceity of cable television and priyanka chopra videos, make sure that girls get to read the official sentences instead of being suprised by the acid washes. Please send down the official length of the pajamas...thereis still some confusion among the paan chewing humwatnon who have red hair adn black surma and very very tight new venture called "totally taliban"? I need some r&d investment to make my flagship product, bag-o-rox. I think it will be a veritable hit with the sunday family outing to gaddafi stadium for the scheduled stonings.
ameen sum ameen
alphy

Re: # 66

Sorry. Lost sight of the big picture.

As for the policemen, I don't know how many actually fought back and how many were just at the wrong time at the wrong place. I guess only one was able to get out of the van in time and started hitting the *RAW* agents back.

To him, definitely... may he Rest In Peace.

He did his job well.

Re: # 60

bismillah mian,

.... i don't understand why the media in pakistan has to give mullahs like imran khan equal time on tv ...... imran khan obviously didn't take rejection from jemima too well and is now taking it out on the entire white race - blaming america for everything that ails pakistan ........ hameed gul is another non-bearded jihadi who should have been shipped off to guantanamo ...... as for the dozens of bearded wierdos who are constantly spouting off after taking your name, i have no idea who invites them and why .......

.... and most pakis, including tahmed's civil society, seem to be suffering from brain damage cassed by the azaaan that some fool yelled into their ear when they were born .... if india had toilets i would move there!

what the f is this rating hindu-muslim? Shame on you bastrds. Honor the 5 Pakistani policemen who were killed. (Ditto Mumbai Police at CST and at Trident International)

Re: # 59

[Even Hindus won't accept you because you humiliate gao-muttar ..and keep eating(nadeedon ki tarah) non-veg food ..]

Naaaah ... I eat beef .... I am hindu too... Its fine.
We will accept anyone who can potentially blow us up. And gets to have sex with even 1 virgin afterwards.

I want tahmed to lead a one man march to condemn the taliban in lahore.....and I wish him the best in returning home in one piece.

#Philosopher

On the contrary, Hamidm2 thinks like a hindu and his wit is appreciated by all. Besides proselytism is not known among hindus. I'm firmly atheist, eat beef and do whatever I feel justified for social sustenance ... without referring to any book or individual - hindu or otehrwise. But so were multitudes of Hindu sages since 9th century BC with sage Vrihaspati, a firm Nastik- non believer in Vedas. I'm as much Hindu as is Laddu with his vaste knowledge of Hindu (and Muslim) theology.

Hamidm2 infact was and is always a hindu. No conversion or rituals like Gau-mootr etc required.

it's amazing, given the amount of casualties incurred by RAW attacks on Pakistanis every year that we haven't conducted a serious investigation and given the relevant results to the UN.

This is a tragedy not for Pakistan but for whole subcont.
No outside cricket team will come to sub continent now.
Sad ..I enjoyed Pakistan Cricket....

Media in Pakistan has already started blaming the Indians, state of denial or silent consent? A case of both, how unfortunate, every act of terrorism brings state of Pakistan closer to its natural demise.

Re: # 53 hamid

(((once again i am prepared to revert to the religion of grandpa gopinath)))

Even Hindus won't accept you because you humiliate gao-muttar and her goaber and keep eating(nadeedon ki tarah) non-veg food instead of worshipping your dinner plates and the candle.

verily you are urined.

OK let me correct myself
This is the "surgical strike" by Indians which they had been threatening of in the wake of Mumbai drama.

#56 Surgical strike would have killed perpetrators and not encouraged them like this event will.

But some certainly need a surgical intervention.

This is the surgical strike by Indians which they had been threatening of in the wake of Mumbai drama.

So any plans to convert Qaddafi Stadium to a Sabzi Mandi now? Obviously, there is no other use left... What about using it for beheading adulterers ?

How are you, Patrick?

Re: # 49

tahmed mian,

.... compared with some of the people in pakistan that i talked to this morning, you look like a genius! .... everyone i talked to thinks that india and/or america are somehow behind this - they don't know why or how, but to them it is 'obvious' ! ...... moron moslems!....... as much as i hate the horrible hindoos, once again i am prepared to revert to the religion of grandpa gopinath .....

#tahmed32 far from me to think on teaching or lecturing anyone.

Systematic teaching of blood letting as a part of growing up is not known in any hindu culture as far as I know. Murders and other crimes are not done for just blood letting but for other gains.

My point is that after an incident like this, Indians will not be thrilled but ALARMED. Pakistani state has totally lost control. You can't even put pressure on them to control youngsters turned terrorists. Difficult to imagine an Indian 20 year old, as most of the mumbai gang was, who will coldly kill so many without flinching. Probably they are so hardened that it seems all so easy to them.

But yes, if there were a few terrorists who had their heads blown away in Lahore by the same poor security detail people who died, we'd have been certainly thrilled. Not for blood spilled but Mumbai revenged.

re: tahmed32#45
You are good, I never realized.

Regards,

Faruk

hamadi mian,

mullah-hu!!

Regards: It is such a relief to know that Hindus are not capable of getting thrilled by the sight of blood (as opposed to us savage muslims). That is why there are no murders of any kind committed by hindus (other than the murder of brides, where the bania spirit overcomes the dislike for blood).

btw, Hamidm just said that it is obvious who did it is the jehadi groups, not India, behind this. So no need to lecture him on his being wrong.

#47 Hamidm2
Hindus are not capable of getting thrilled by the sight of blood. Even in the street, they will turn away if an animal is being butchered. Only ... know how to harden their children at Eid and find fun in gore.

You're often wrong on this count.

.... i think it is nonsense to suggest that india is behind this attack in lahore ..... i am sure they are thrilled by it, but the perpetrators belong to one of the many jihadi groups that are on the march for the glory of islam ......

I agree. Raw is too raw to awe them

Faruk: I think hamidm is a RAW agent too. In fact, he is a double agent (whenever Hamidm shows up on chowk, Zardari is no longer seen in public).

#43 PM: Please dont waste your precious time with me. Carry on with your RAW logic.

#40 tahmed:

How about you tell me first whether or not you believe there was 'inside' help for the the perpetrators of 9/11. Depending on your answer, I guess I'll havta decide how much time to devote to your questions -- even if they were asked with tongue in cheek.

tahmed32#40
You have it all wrong, Zardari is the raw agent.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: # 36,
NKG,
I don't deny Mukti Bahini as well as LTTE, but they were long time back. Even during the time when Khalistani terrorists were murdering innocents or Kashmir terrorist brutalities, we couldn't do much inside Pakistan. With all honesty, I don't think India has the capability to do so.

PM: Do you think the surrender in Swat was a result of RAW actions as well? And those lota judges infesting the supreme court building, paving the way for King Zardari I, look suspiciously like RAW agents too.

Philospherji,

You're too kind. And overrating of... never mind. :-)

nkg: I guess I need to defend even a statement as guarded as "one cannot rule out XXX". :-) Well, I agree that RAW could not have CARRIED OUT such an attack. If at all they had a hand in it, it would be providing logistical and material support to the jihadi outfits responsible. Not at all a new concept.

But really, we're getting ahead of ourselves now... Let's see what comes of the investigation. I figure the NATURE (modus operandi) of the investigation will itself reveal something important.

Re: # 35
Folio...
I don't think RAW is that much efficient to carry out attack in Pakistan...What most they can do is to intercept messeges using better electronic surviliance system ( at least, India is ahead of Pakistan in communication and satelite technology, specialy after Israel started providing radars and equipments....)....

#20 Posted by PM on March 3, 2009 3:47:35 am


My questions are:


No..the really important question is did they say zulm or julum....

Re: # 30
vivek...
there is no point denying that Indian administration helped Mukti Vahini with arms and military training...Bangladesh struggle was not, what M K Gandhi preached...Similarly, Indira Gandhi created the problem called LTTE....

28, nkg,

It's not my point but a theory as per Pak govt.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak-hints-at-Indian-involvement-in-a ttack/articleshow/4218557.cms

Pak hints at Indian involvement in attack on Lanka team

philosopher #33 How dare you say chowk lacks brilliant minds when you have _ar_jun61 and laddu present???

PM ji

I am going to sue you for not being here all these days.Anyway... welcome back, It's nice to see one of chowk's most brilliant minds back in action once again.I really missed you. These days Chowk is full of (highly superficial folks who are not even worth responding to.

Cheers

Are we facing a common enemy?


yes.. the common enemy being jihadi terrorists trained and funded by the paki state...

Re: # 27
PM...
How can raw arrange logistics and supply of arms deep into Pakistan without local help? As per my knowledge, indic people living in Pakistan, had so far stayed away from group violence. When they are subjected to, they migrated to India ( and that way the number is coming dowing from double digit to single digit and may be within 10 years it will .xxx...the decimal point is shifting rapidly).....Can you please elaborate?

Its insane to blame India for this tragedy. India hasn't been able to do any mass violence in Pakistan of any kind.

This incident would mean India should now increase security for the IPL.

laddu: Where were you at the time of the attack? Do you have an alibi??

Re: # 15
Folio...
"5. RAW as they dont want Pakistan to progress & be happy playing cricket...."

BCCI, if not under pressure from GoI, generaly avoid conflict with PCB. That is the area (cricket), where India, Pakistan and Srilanka co-operate with each other to fight against England and Australia. Mr. Jagmohan Dalmia (bania) initiated the co-operating channel and it is still intact. Govt of India, at most, can severe tie with Pakistan for some months (after Indian election, if Pakistan comes back to normal, GoI will again behave as normal). I don't think Indian cricket/political administration is stupid enough to bring their own demise by wickening Pakistan cricket board.....Pakistani cricketers are quite popular amongst Indian muslims and the sponsors will not like to see Pakistan-India cricket tie stops....

Re #21
ladduji,

Those measures may be called for at some point. Okay, even now. But there are more immediate questions to be answered involving this apparent lapse in security.

re. possible motives of jihadis (if they indeed were behind this). That's easy. Destroying the country's image and with it it's economy is probably seen both as a neat retaliation against the government as well as a show of strength. In any case, since when did jihadi-perpetrated mayhem have rational, strategic underpinnings??

None of this is to rule out a RAW hand in this (or indeed in 26/11). The point, however, is that on evidence so far, one doesn't need to implicate RAW-- or the LTTE for that matter.

Re: # 20

PM,

i agree with you .... the ig police of punjab, governor taseer and all the people responsible for providing security should be hung before there is any investigation ...... the negligence was criminal

..... i think the droopy eyed judge and the badmash lawyers are behind this attack ....... now prove me wrong!

15 corr:

..possible to know?

..it's done by the enemies..


...bus carrying players was attacked

..but the players ducked on the floor.

AkbarHussain #16 That's right, blame it on the Indians. Instead of facing the problem - lawlessness. A country where every individual who becomes President - civilian or military - instead of attending to the serious issues facing the country throws the constitution out of the window and starts playing games to become a badshah.

Re: # 9
kul...
I mean, what kind politics it is involved with aliens ( to Pakistanis) like Lankans? The LTTE-Lankan army is fighting a crucial battle in Srilanka. It will be quite normal for LTTE to flex their muscle on foreign soil too. If it is true (what Mr. B Raman is suggesting), then it will be very peculiar. In Assam, ULFA is in hand and glove with Islamic militants, when ULFA was created to drive away illegal Bangladeshi muslas from Assamese soil.....

Re: # 20

PM ji,

The is nothing you can do against such brazen fidayeen attacks.

Only the civilians have to take arms and kill these fidayeens and mullahs wherever one finds them....

best solution is to blow hole in their madarassas where they breed and brainwash orphans and abandones child into suicidal fidayeen.........

The writer (and the IG Police, on TV) claim that were it not for the valor of the policemen, there might have been carnage on the bus.

However, here is Trevor Bayliss' eye-witness account, pretty much corroborating that of the coach driver earlier...

"I didn't see much, but the guys at the front of the bus said they saw cars in front of us stop, then back-up. People then jumped out and started shooting."

The driver spoke of a man coming out one of these cars, or possibly another, and hurling a grenade at the coach. the grenade rolled under the moving coach and presumably didn't explode while under.

At about the same time, the driver, who on the insistence of the frenetic occupants kept driving, veered the coach so as to miraculously avoid being hit by a rocket launcher fired from behind the bus.

My questions are:

Where are the commandos at this point? When in Karachi, the coach was surrounded by what would seem an impenetrable fence of police and other LEAs, including commandos.

If there was already a threat warning, prompting the coach route to have been altered, how could such an attack, involving a dozen or more attackers from four or more directions, have been carried out in broad daylight at an apparent stone's throw from the stadium about an hour before the scheduled start of play?

As witnessed in the TV footage, many of the armed men were using their weapons with gay abandon in the open street. This was apparently a stone's throw from the Stadium (Please correct if mistaken). Where were the LEAs at this point? Where the elite force(s). If they weren't present, Why?? There was intel on a possible attack the night before.

upar wala shaitan ko to muaf kar dega.....lekin Paki mulloh ko kabhi nahin karega.......

Re: # 16

Abey, Khud ki shaitaniyat to dekh pehle ........ uspe to shaitan ko bhi sharam aati hai??

Akbar,

One clever bunch, Indians are, no? Ruining a country of 160 mln is baye haath ka khel for the GoI.

Laddu,

Yes. Most excellent theory, Laddu. Wikkit are the ways of these mullahs.

Re #13
Apnay graiban main bhi jhaank lain ge, pehlay tum shaitano ka graiban pakar gar gali main ghaseetnay ki zaroorat hai haramzado!

Naqvi, How it's possible to now (Who's behind it?)?

The govt spokesman says that it's done the enemies of Pakistan-Sri Lanka friendship? That means India but definitely not Nepal or Maldives.


NOW lets see the physical evidence and the statements of the ppl under attack.

a. The bus carrying players were attacked as they killed the driver of the bus and shot the tyres of the bus.

b. The police who're escorting the bus were killed

c. The bus's fired at but the played ducked on the floor.

d. The attackers were carrying the backpacks as it's the norm for all fidayeen attacks (where they store their dates & bombs & other ammunition) & was meant to be a long drawn encounter.

It's clear that the prime targets were the players.

Who's behind this?

1. LeT and other tanzeems as a reaction to the detention and filing of cases against the top-brass of LeT.

2. Taliban as they want to get media attention as they are now expanding in Punjab

3. Freelancer terrorists doing the copycat of Mumbai attacks

4. Nawaz Sharif supporters who're upset abt the dismissal of PML-N govt in Punjab.

5. RAW as they dont want Pakistan to progress & be happy playing cricket.


So, take ur pick or wait for the investigations to complete.

one reason of this attack may be to deviate the people attention from lawyers movement and from nawaz case.but most probably i think it has the involvement of RAW in it as to ruin the image of pakistan and indians also have their tussle with tamil tigers.

Re: # 12

miyan, apne girebaan mein jhaank kar to dekho............khauf se mar jaoge is shaitaniyat par......

Indian government is funding terrorism in my country, from Swat to Baluchistan and now this. They staged the Mumbai drama and now playing a shame retaliation in Lahore. Sorry to be straight forward, but you cannot hide the fact by uttering non-sense blabber like jihadi, kirkit, mullah an blah blah. India is a nation who is funding terrorists in Paistan and Afghanistan and they are really "good" at propaganda too. "Way to go" you bastards!

shoaib saheb,

kirkit never causes "massive destruction" anywhere in the world.... on the other hand it channelizes rivalries into positive competition.............only Islamist want destructive confrontation between muslims and non-muslims.....

Mullahs do not want momeens to "waste" energies playing kirkit ........instead of striving for Jehad......

Re: # 8

Laddu,

Krikkiters are insane people. Easily brainwashed and ready to cause massive destruction.

I say we all demand an apology for the inconvenience.

So long and thanks,
Shoaib

NKG, I thought that it was settled that Islam was all about Politics? Was it not?

Simple, you have to see from the eyes of a sunnat professing momeen.

The logic is clear-

kirkit is a kafir game.

Momeens waste their time in playing kirkit when they should be praying to the Allah.

....worse..... it decreases the jazba-e-jihad against non muslims by channelizing into harmless games that do not benefit Islam at all.

So, kirkit should not be played and turned into a national obsession- it is Islam that should be the obsession of every Paki momeen.

QED.

The attack on kirkit would force out munafiqoons from stadiums into the mosques........

Kul,
This is mostly a political event than religion ( at least, I can see from this view point)...trying to kill Lankans is like trying to kill Brazilians, both are equaly alien to Islam/Pakistan....LTTE? In Pakistan!!!....

http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/mar/03raman-harkat-repays-an-old-debt-to-ltte-in -lahore.htm

B.Raman, the former chief of the RAW has an interesting take. He speaks of old links between the LTTE and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (known as Harkat-ul-Ansar before 1997) in which in exchange for the LTTE's help in shipping arms to the Philippines where an Islamic insurgency is on going, the Harkat and ISI gifted away some anti-aircraft weapons and ammunition. Maybe the HuM is repaying an old debt to its friend by targeting the predominantly Sinhalese SL cricketers (Muralitharan is the only Tamilian).

who is behind it??? how about 7th century Arbi mindset?

Shocking, ghastly, terrible. I am ashamed. Ashamed to be a Lahorite, even though I have nothing to do with these attacks. But what makes these jihadi ba*****ds become so cosy? Isn't us, who are always looking for that next drone attacks in the remote North, istead of what is going in the big cities? At least bulk of those who die in drone attacks are psychotic jihadi bas****ds.

Now a days lot of people use camera mounted on Mobile phone handset. That can be used as material for investigation...
In Mumbai, the administration was not prepared for such activity and they were taken off guard...so, it has taken more time to bring the situation under control...furthermore, mumbai is very crowded city, with large number of floating population...it is very difficult to control casualty figure, even if a small boy attacks with gun....

Why dont you see it as a way to deviate the public attention from the laweyrs LM!