God of Many Needs

Re: # 33 RizwarAhmed,
I don't know what the fight is for. I am just responding to clarify.
I hope some points are clarified. And I am sure some are not. But arrows come from other direction, I just raise the shield - and then try to share an understanding so that I may be of some help.
One always does not consciously write poetry for a purpose, though purpose may be hidden in the psyche. And what I believe is the purpose is fulfillment of being. All the art is (or should be) a seeking after truth and a seeking after the fulfillment. One of the divine attribute is takhleeq. And we do have a ray of it in our soul.
To reiterate one point - the poem stemmed from my feeling of man's utter innate humbleness in confrontation with utterly unknowable REALITY (not talking about reality that can be grasped by scientific tools - and tools they are – yes, TOOLS, means to an end) - but consider the fact how man thinks that how godlike is he.
The art does not have to be brutal. The human nature is very subtle too (Lateef). Saying things without sensibilities of latafat is violence in itself against these subtleties. And how careless people are in the use of words. So here comes the art. Or a theory of art.
How humble I feel in my searching and sifting of my inner being to see the secrets of divine there. And just play my harp. Like David - if I may dare.

Re: # 32 u r welcome, lekin aakhir kuchh naheen samjhay na!
exactly as I thought.

You make the word of 'God' sound irreplaceable
even by the Holy One
That is just a step away from 'shirk'
na'uzo billah

Rhyming the words do not a poem make
It takes much more than just to fake
Neither it always has to have kisses
Clowning blinds you to point it misses

What is the fight for? Is it really important to subdue someone with arguments. Nicha dekhana itna important?

It seems poetry is used like stones, to hit each other.

What will Rumi thinks if he observes this.

One thing is for sure that this poem is written after Quran, and if for argument purpose it is assumed that Quran was never revealed to this world, then the concepts which are attempted in the poem would be unknown to humankind.

I am still not clear what was the purpose of the poem?

To accept the challenge of Quran to bring a verse like this? even if it is example of Mosquito?

To narrate a concept of Quran in other words?

Re: # 31
MM,

Thanks for unsealing your lips but replacing god (or God) with 'man' is what the erring poets do and some atheistic Chowqies too. May the One and True God deal directly with misguided human missiles; my message stands delivered (all praise is due to Him).

Regards.
-------------------------------------------
Spring is in the air again
A new year is in love it seems
Unreal is the passage of time
I see kisses flowing down the stream

Re: # 30 Again, I have to first reiterate "I can only try to convey a truth that, for me, is not conveyable in any other form. Otherwise, why would I write a poem? "

Tell me tahir, what do you think why someone writes a poetry? If you think poetry is just a trifle, then how any poetry can be explained to you?

Yet, I will try; and this try can only be in hints /cues, otherwise, if a poem could be just paraphrased in prose, why a poem in the first place?

And here is the hint at your asking: Replace the word 'god' with 'man' in my poem and you will begin to see one aspect of its meaning. And it may be sufficient for you to know that this can be a metaphor of human condition - and I presume you know what a metaphor is - and of the abject humility of human condition (often unknown to them) in the face of ultimately unknowable universe, in spite of all the tools of knowledge at its disposal. And this is only one of many ways to look at it. The art / literature / sacred texts can and often contain more than one meaning - and I assume you know that too. Otherwise, the discussion is an exercise in futility - but you asked and I have responded.

(Greetings to you too)

Re: # 22
MM dear,

"How the reader perceives a truth expressed in a poem, the poet have no say in that."

Nice try MM! Please HAVE your say I implore you! As I reader (writer too, in case you missed those jems you didn't find funny because they hurt just in the right places), I'll plead total ignorance and request you to explain this piece. Tashreeh keejeeaye huzoor!

"It has to be left to the dynamics that is created between the written word and the reader."

Break that rule please! Just once MM!

"In that vein, I can only try to convey a truth that, for me, is not conveyable in any other form"

Oh really nobel poet laureate? You must be Bruce almighty? Let's just say you have no words, and no idea what you're chasing after.

Stop whirling for a change!

Still your brother in true faith.

Re: # 28. the point mentioned in # 27 does not show if I have a Quranic agenda. Honestly, I don't have any agenda other than sharing my perceptions, expression, whatever, from wherever they get inspiration.
I don't deny the fact that the light of Quran is part of it. And I feel blessed for that. This cannot be called agenda however. Consider this if you may that if you love Beethoven’s symphony #9 and are blessed to express your love in a poetic (or any other form), would you call it an agenda.
Lastly, your bursts of harshness do not bother me because, though we have fundamental differences, I respect inquisition of mind or heart, regardless of how sometime interacts may shape in the course of an argument.
Regards

sorry ... that was a bit harsh quin sahib (the choice of words and not the priciple at stake) ... hope I wasn't perceived as rude

Regards

Re: # 25; quin

this is taken from your own post on this very board (No 21)

[[well said.
That is the fundamental point.
That point is also confirmed in Quran by pointing out to the 'Meezan' (that should not be disturbed - Surah al Rehman).]]

and yes ... that's what I call an agenda sir ... sufism in the guise of Islam (or the other way around perhaps)

Re: # 23 Most of the sacred texts have used poetic forms in part; however, that does not mean they are just poems. First, you need to clearly define what a poem is, before you can make such a general statement. Also, it is important to see the nature of sacred texts in their historical context to have a meaningful discussion. This is a huge topic and deserve a book in itself.
Your addition of circular logic to my elliptical thread will make even more sense if you may just add a spiral string to it.

Re: # 24 I already said in Ghalib's words "kuchh na samjhay khuda karay koi"
It is hard to argue about poetry with someone who is behaving like a poetically challenged kid. In particular, if someone base his logic on presumptive, or should I say, presumptuous, axioms.
Here is a question for you akcheema.
What do you think what is my Quranic agenda?
And what you know about from where I get inspiration for my poetry?
Your paranoia seems no different from tahir's paranoia; flip side of the same coin; not watching your blind spot and blind to the subtleties of human mind, seeing things in either / or terms. (Remember Bush's either you are with us or...)
I have tried to give you cues about my poem in my previous posts but obviously it does not work with un-initiated or with a paranoid mind.

Re: # 22; quin
[[How the heck you presume that I am talking about God of Quran in this poem?]]

quit it now already! ... is there 'another' God you believe in?? whilst brandishing your Quranist agenda and poetry 'inspired' by it? ... or you happen to have a 'God' tucked away for the sake of convenience ... to be used with 'poetic' objectives in mind?

at least have the courage to be honest about your convictions ... please

Someone once told me that quran is less a holybook and more a beautiful poem. Elliptical/ circular in logic makes sense

Re: # 15 akcheema,
You are totally mistaken here sir, Again, you stretch in all directions.
How the heck you presume that I am talking about God of Quran in this poem?
Should I reiterate / rephrase my earlier statement?
I am creating a poetic metaphor to express a truth. How the reader perceives a truth expressed in a poem, the poet have no say in that. It has to be left to the dynamics that is created between the written word and the reader.
In that vein, I can only try to convey a truth that, for me, is not conveyable in any other form. Otherwise, why would I write a poem? To understand poetry, often you have to let go of rigidity of logical mind and linear thinking. It is elliptical, if you know what I mean.

Re: #16 RizwahAhmed:
"...the acutal road is somewhere in between ..."

well said.
That is the fundamental point.
That point is also confirmed in Quran by pointing out to the 'Meezan' (that should not be disturbed - Surah al Rehman).

Thanks for your comments.

Reply to # 6

Re: # 5 sufis and scholars like the one I mentioned were (and are) the ones who were (and are) the channel for Quran's light. Rest was (and is) an exercise in empire building - in its various guises.

Quran confirm this. "And He has placed in the earth firm mountains lest it quake with you, and rivers and routes that you may take the right way"

Mountains cause rivers to flow, from rivers canals are traced out, from canals farmers dug-out small branches for their individual fields. Same is the condition of religion and knowledge, there are canals and branches in true knowledge. Who else they if not true sufis?

This debate between "Alim" and "shaikh" is as old as Islam is or humanity is. True beleivers have no distinction, it is only done by those who come later and/or with half backed understanding. Does any companion of Holy Propeht SAW wasted his time in starting or engaging this kind of debate?