Long March - A Long View Analysis
Beena Sarwar March 12, 2009
#309 Posted by anil on March 18, 2009 12:47:54 pm
Re: # 307
Shankar:
The life he led in the West comes with a lot of baggage. I once watched on YouTube (someone had posted) a talk show in which Imran was present, a guy from MQM and some other person. Most of the time spent was on his illegitimate daughter and some article of the constitution.
His inability to project his wife as bahu of unwashed masses (thanks Hamidm sahib), as oppose to Sonia Gandhi, indicates that he has problem in connecting with the rural masses. Hence his poor performance in election.
These are a couple that come to my mind.
Shankar:
The life he led in the West comes with a lot of baggage. I once watched on YouTube (someone had posted) a talk show in which Imran was present, a guy from MQM and some other person. Most of the time spent was on his illegitimate daughter and some article of the constitution.
His inability to project his wife as bahu of unwashed masses (thanks Hamidm sahib), as oppose to Sonia Gandhi, indicates that he has problem in connecting with the rural masses. Hence his poor performance in election.
These are a couple that come to my mind.
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#308 Posted by harish_hyd on March 18, 2009 3:25:40 am
#307 by shankar
In the interview with BBC, he does talk about possibility of foreign hand, but places primary responsibility on Pakistan's failure to provide security.
I think his views on WOT in Afghanistan make a lot of sense, even though it goes against Washington's mindset of thinking.
Shankar bhai, it is obvious that the first and foremost candidate to cop the blame must be the security forces for their glaring inability to prevent such an audacious attack. Having said that, it was morally incumbent upon him to have apologized for his statement earlier that Pakis are so Cricket-mad that no one would attack Cricketers. By blaming everyone under the sun, it appeared that IK was more keen on diverting attention from his Polyanna-ish views than anything else.
As for the WOT in Afghanistan, I believe it is one of the few things that the US got right, even though how they went about it is open to debate. IK is merely echoing what his constituency is keen to hear.
In the interview with BBC, he does talk about possibility of foreign hand, but places primary responsibility on Pakistan's failure to provide security.
I think his views on WOT in Afghanistan make a lot of sense, even though it goes against Washington's mindset of thinking.
Shankar bhai, it is obvious that the first and foremost candidate to cop the blame must be the security forces for their glaring inability to prevent such an audacious attack. Having said that, it was morally incumbent upon him to have apologized for his statement earlier that Pakis are so Cricket-mad that no one would attack Cricketers. By blaming everyone under the sun, it appeared that IK was more keen on diverting attention from his Polyanna-ish views than anything else.
As for the WOT in Afghanistan, I believe it is one of the few things that the US got right, even though how they went about it is open to debate. IK is merely echoing what his constituency is keen to hear.
#307 Posted by shankar on March 18, 2009 2:58:38 am
anil,
""Imran has a lot of baggage that he cannot nicely pack and dump, certainly not in Pakistan.""
What baggage?
harish,
Every politician in India & Pakistan blames a "foreign hand" in a terrorist attack. In the interview with BBC, he does talk about possibility of foreign hand, but places primary responsibility on Pakistan's failure to provide security.
I think his views on WOT in Afghanistan make a lot of sense, even though it goes against Washington's mindset of thinking.
""Imran has a lot of baggage that he cannot nicely pack and dump, certainly not in Pakistan.""
What baggage?
harish,
Every politician in India & Pakistan blames a "foreign hand" in a terrorist attack. In the interview with BBC, he does talk about possibility of foreign hand, but places primary responsibility on Pakistan's failure to provide security.
I think his views on WOT in Afghanistan make a lot of sense, even though it goes against Washington's mindset of thinking.
#306 Posted by harish_hyd on March 18, 2009 1:42:49 am
#304 by majumdar
Looks like you have joined the Govt of India. All your recent posts are coming in triplicates.
I'm sure you know that Ajit joke where Peter comes running and informs him that he's had triplets and would like him (Ajit) to give them a name. The man asks Peter with a straight face to name them Kate, Duplikate and Triplikate :-)
PS: Seriously, I have no idea why every interact is being posted thrice.
Looks like you have joined the Govt of India. All your recent posts are coming in triplicates.
I'm sure you know that Ajit joke where Peter comes running and informs him that he's had triplets and would like him (Ajit) to give them a name. The man asks Peter with a straight face to name them Kate, Duplikate and Triplikate :-)
PS: Seriously, I have no idea why every interact is being posted thrice.
#305 Posted by banjara286 on March 18, 2009 12:04:14 am
Re: # 294
pti will rise, but slowly, unless imran gets some good second tier people.......
IK can definitely get support from the people in Karachi if he teams up with some prominent and princiopled people like Aitezaz Ahsan, Justice Wajihuddin and properly organize PTI party. but these people are not islamist enough for his liking. part of being successful polititian is to make forsighted compromises to build strong team. IK lacks that.
pti will rise, but slowly, unless imran gets some good second tier people.......
IK can definitely get support from the people in Karachi if he teams up with some prominent and princiopled people like Aitezaz Ahsan, Justice Wajihuddin and properly organize PTI party. but these people are not islamist enough for his liking. part of being successful polititian is to make forsighted compromises to build strong team. IK lacks that.
#304 Posted by majumdar on March 17, 2009 10:46:11 pm
Harishbhai,
Looks like you have joined the Govt of India. All your recent posts are coming in triplicates.
Regards
Looks like you have joined the Govt of India. All your recent posts are coming in triplicates.
Regards
#303 Posted by harish_hyd on March 17, 2009 10:34:06 pm
#294 by bulleya
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
There goes Captain Clueless again! If Imran Khan was so honest and principled, the man would have accepted his mistake when he wrongly predicted that no Paki would attack Cricketers. Instead, the man offered every possible convoluted explanation as to who could have done it. Foreign hand, Army, government, he blamed everyone. But not once did he have the decency to admit that he had been wrong.
If this is the most honest specimen available in Pakistan, one shudders to think how the dishonest specimen would be like.
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
There goes Captain Clueless again! If Imran Khan was so honest and principled, the man would have accepted his mistake when he wrongly predicted that no Paki would attack Cricketers. Instead, the man offered every possible convoluted explanation as to who could have done it. Foreign hand, Army, government, he blamed everyone. But not once did he have the decency to admit that he had been wrong.
If this is the most honest specimen available in Pakistan, one shudders to think how the dishonest specimen would be like.
#302 Posted by harish_hyd on March 17, 2009 10:34:04 pm
#294 by bulleya
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
There goes Captain Clueless again! If Imran Khan was so honest and principled, the man would have accepted his mistake when he wrongly predicted that no Paki would attack Cricketers. Instead, the man offered every possible convoluted explanation as to who could have done it. Foreign hand, Army, government, he blamed everyone. But not once did he have the decency to admit that he had been wrong.
If this is the most honest specimen available in Pakistan, one shudders to think how the dishonest specimen would be like.
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
There goes Captain Clueless again! If Imran Khan was so honest and principled, the man would have accepted his mistake when he wrongly predicted that no Paki would attack Cricketers. Instead, the man offered every possible convoluted explanation as to who could have done it. Foreign hand, Army, government, he blamed everyone. But not once did he have the decency to admit that he had been wrong.
If this is the most honest specimen available in Pakistan, one shudders to think how the dishonest specimen would be like.
#301 Posted by harish_hyd on March 17, 2009 10:34:03 pm
#294 by bulleya
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
There goes Captain Clueless again! If Imran Khan was so honest and principled, the man would have accepted his mistake when he wrongly predicted that no Paki would attack Cricketers. Instead, the man offered every possible convoluted explanation as to who could have done it. Foreign hand, Army, government, he blamed everyone. But not once did he have the decency to admit that he had been wrong.
If this is the most honest specimen available in Pakistan, one shudders to think how the dishonest specimen would be like.
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
There goes Captain Clueless again! If Imran Khan was so honest and principled, the man would have accepted his mistake when he wrongly predicted that no Paki would attack Cricketers. Instead, the man offered every possible convoluted explanation as to who could have done it. Foreign hand, Army, government, he blamed everyone. But not once did he have the decency to admit that he had been wrong.
If this is the most honest specimen available in Pakistan, one shudders to think how the dishonest specimen would be like.
#300 Posted by bulleya on March 17, 2009 8:02:40 pm
hamidm mian #: "........ can you name one seat in nwfp that imran khan can win? ..... for your information mianwali is in the punjab, not in nwfp as you seem to think ..... fool!........ imran khan's best chance is in urban punjab - places like lahore, islamabad and faisalabad ....."
....i really got tired of debating politics with you, after you claimed that bush was the best thing to have ever happened to usa......do keep in mind that you were jumping up and down when he was in power.....i kept telling you he would be a disaster.....
.....then you claimed that the, "droopy eyed one" would never be restored......
...as i have been telling you, you need to stick to comedy....chowk was a much more fun (and sane) place when you were the resident comedian.....
.....i have lived in mianwali for a year and half.....i know its ins and outs.....what to talk of its location.....
as for imran khan.....his best bet is nwfp.....starting from tribal punjab, extending towards fata.....this is where he is the most popular....he is devoutly anti-gwot etc......in the last election, surveys indicated his party to be second, in nwfp.....so he would have won quite a few provincial seats......he claims this himself.......
can he win in urban punjab.....i doubt it.....pml-n is very popular......imran has been unable to even win a seat in the locality in lahore where he built a cancer hospital......all his candidates lose by large margins.....
though, in alliance with pml-n, he could win a few seats in urban punjab......however, rural/tribal punjab extending into nwfp is where his real base happens to be....he, personally, competes from lahore, mianwali and swat etc.....he loses in lahore, wins huge in mianwali, and i think will start winning in swat etc.....
....i really got tired of debating politics with you, after you claimed that bush was the best thing to have ever happened to usa......do keep in mind that you were jumping up and down when he was in power.....i kept telling you he would be a disaster.....
.....then you claimed that the, "droopy eyed one" would never be restored......
...as i have been telling you, you need to stick to comedy....chowk was a much more fun (and sane) place when you were the resident comedian.....
.....i have lived in mianwali for a year and half.....i know its ins and outs.....what to talk of its location.....
as for imran khan.....his best bet is nwfp.....starting from tribal punjab, extending towards fata.....this is where he is the most popular....he is devoutly anti-gwot etc......in the last election, surveys indicated his party to be second, in nwfp.....so he would have won quite a few provincial seats......he claims this himself.......
can he win in urban punjab.....i doubt it.....pml-n is very popular......imran has been unable to even win a seat in the locality in lahore where he built a cancer hospital......all his candidates lose by large margins.....
though, in alliance with pml-n, he could win a few seats in urban punjab......however, rural/tribal punjab extending into nwfp is where his real base happens to be....he, personally, competes from lahore, mianwali and swat etc.....he loses in lahore, wins huge in mianwali, and i think will start winning in swat etc.....
#299 Posted by hamidm2 on March 17, 2009 12:23:08 pm
Re: # 297
shankar mian,
if it is any consolation, "honest, principled politicians" have a hard time in new jersey, illinois and new york as well ...........
shankar mian,
if it is any consolation, "honest, principled politicians" have a hard time in new jersey, illinois and new york as well ...........
#298 Posted by anil on March 17, 2009 11:20:15 am
Re: # 294
Romair:
Reading your and Hamidm’s posts, sounds like that Pakistani election politics has not learned how to provide alternative to rural population.
You say the politics would make transition to urban politics.
You may be ignoring that elections can only be won in rural constituency. Simple folksy message and sloganeering are needed, not Oxford credentials or Cricket captainship.
Rural folks in general are conservative and disdain city slickers, Imran has a lot of baggage that he cannot nicely pack and dump, certainly not in Pakistan. Then he gets into dramebaazi, like he was in the news that MQM leader in London would be arrested any minute, stripped and punished. This tells me that he is not a street fighter and cannot pick the right fight that he can win.
He did a great job for Pakistani cricket, and cancer hospital. This is his strength, and I am afraid for such strength politics is not the theater to play.
There is a case study in Mayawati’s election. She had simple message – your bahenji (sister), and simple sloganeering – something about Ganesha and Hanuman being "our gods" too, and not just theirs.
The latter took care of BJP, the first took care of Sonia Gandhi (tumhari bahu). This election she is going all alone, and is staking a claim to be the next PM of India.
Imran could not even wrap Jemima as the bahu of the masses. Something Rajiv Gandhi was able to do. He is too not a politician. He should concentrate on exposing and try bringing “honesty� in politics and expose politicians. If he does that on TV, he would have a huge audience, including rural. May be in ten years he might be ready, or by then he might decide that he is better off with his popularity and connection with people, which politicians would be scared. Rush Limbaugh somehow comes to mind as a role model for Imran Khan. I know Rush is despised by liberals, but he has following to make the difference.
Romair:
Reading your and Hamidm’s posts, sounds like that Pakistani election politics has not learned how to provide alternative to rural population.
You say the politics would make transition to urban politics.
You may be ignoring that elections can only be won in rural constituency. Simple folksy message and sloganeering are needed, not Oxford credentials or Cricket captainship.
Rural folks in general are conservative and disdain city slickers, Imran has a lot of baggage that he cannot nicely pack and dump, certainly not in Pakistan. Then he gets into dramebaazi, like he was in the news that MQM leader in London would be arrested any minute, stripped and punished. This tells me that he is not a street fighter and cannot pick the right fight that he can win.
He did a great job for Pakistani cricket, and cancer hospital. This is his strength, and I am afraid for such strength politics is not the theater to play.
There is a case study in Mayawati’s election. She had simple message – your bahenji (sister), and simple sloganeering – something about Ganesha and Hanuman being "our gods" too, and not just theirs.
The latter took care of BJP, the first took care of Sonia Gandhi (tumhari bahu). This election she is going all alone, and is staking a claim to be the next PM of India.
Imran could not even wrap Jemima as the bahu of the masses. Something Rajiv Gandhi was able to do. He is too not a politician. He should concentrate on exposing and try bringing “honesty� in politics and expose politicians. If he does that on TV, he would have a huge audience, including rural. May be in ten years he might be ready, or by then he might decide that he is better off with his popularity and connection with people, which politicians would be scared. Rush Limbaugh somehow comes to mind as a role model for Imran Khan. I know Rush is despised by liberals, but he has following to make the difference.
#297 Posted by shankar on March 17, 2009 10:03:27 am
hamid,romair,
thanks for the input. It is unfortunate that honest, principled politicians have a hard time succeeding in our part of the world.
thanks for the input. It is unfortunate that honest, principled politicians have a hard time succeeding in our part of the world.
#296 Posted by tahmed32 on March 17, 2009 9:17:35 am
bulleya can even tell you how many votes every party will get in the next elections. he also knows what the Dow Jones Index will be 3 months from now. he learnt all this because he passed the rigorous tests for superior intellect, brilliant geo-political strategy, the presence of the nostordamus-gene in the DNA required to gain entrance to the Howarth Academy for Wizards, Kakul.
#295 Posted by hamidm2 on March 17, 2009 8:54:40 am
Re: # 294
bewakoof bulleya,
... you areally are clueless: "......i think in the next election, pml-n, pti, ji will participate in an alliance.....pml-n will sweep punjab, and imran and jamaat will win, jointly in nwfp......mqm will join them, as it always joins the winning party......
........ can you name one seat in nwfp that imran khan can win? ..... for your information mianwali is in the punjab, not in nwfp as you seem to think ..... fool!
.... imran khan's best chance is in urban punjab - places like lahore, islamabad and faisalabad ..... i can personally deliver him at at least fifty votes from my immediate family ......... he just doesn't have what it takes to be a politician in the rough and tumble world of pakistani politics - he is like a janitor aspiring to be the ceo of a fortune 500 company after watching an hour of cnbc ..........
bewakoof bulleya,
... you areally are clueless: "......i think in the next election, pml-n, pti, ji will participate in an alliance.....pml-n will sweep punjab, and imran and jamaat will win, jointly in nwfp......mqm will join them, as it always joins the winning party......
........ can you name one seat in nwfp that imran khan can win? ..... for your information mianwali is in the punjab, not in nwfp as you seem to think ..... fool!
.... imran khan's best chance is in urban punjab - places like lahore, islamabad and faisalabad ..... i can personally deliver him at at least fifty votes from my immediate family ......... he just doesn't have what it takes to be a politician in the rough and tumble world of pakistani politics - he is like a janitor aspiring to be the ceo of a fortune 500 company after watching an hour of cnbc ..........
#294 Posted by bulleya on March 17, 2009 8:16:49 am
shankar #: "OK--what about Imran?....he's not feudal,he wasnt in the military, there are no charges of corruption, he has bought honor to Pakistan; not only as a cricketer, but the charities he's founded yada yada.."
...good question....following are the answers:
uptil now, pakistani politics was based on two principles...number one, it was dominated by feudals and pirs....number two it was dominated by crooks.....one had to be one or the other, prefarably both, to win....
now things are changing.....ppp is the last bastion of the feudal and the pir....and the recent urban movement has started the end of this......if ppp doesn't evolve into an urban party, it is out......
......will the second element end.....maybe after this judicial revolution......
.....imran khan if far too honest, principled and inflexible to succeed in this system......he was offered the pm'ship by musharraf.....he was offered a large number of seats, by nawaz sharif.....etc.......he refused.......
.......in a game dominated by crooks, one can only make alliances with crooks......and he refuses to do so.....
......secondly, i am quite disappointed by the people he has as his second tier......they are nobodies......they couldn't get elected dogcatcher......no charisma.....no political acumen......they are barely ever on tv......no one knows who they are......
.....people say he is too inflexible, and people leave his party......
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
he, himself, wins by record votes in his rural seat of mianwali......the surveys showed that his party was to be second in nwfp, if it hadn't boycotted.....
......i think in the next election, pml-n, pti, ji will participate in an alliance.....pml-n will sweep punjab, and imran and jamaat will win, jointly in nwfp......mqm will join them, as it always joins the winning party......
if the above happens, then imran's party will, finally get some seats.......and most of all, pakistan's politics will have, finally, shifted to the urbanites......
ppp, in my opinion, is on its last legs, if it doesn't massively reform.......pti will rise, but slowly, unless imran gets some good second tier people.......
...good question....following are the answers:
uptil now, pakistani politics was based on two principles...number one, it was dominated by feudals and pirs....number two it was dominated by crooks.....one had to be one or the other, prefarably both, to win....
now things are changing.....ppp is the last bastion of the feudal and the pir....and the recent urban movement has started the end of this......if ppp doesn't evolve into an urban party, it is out......
......will the second element end.....maybe after this judicial revolution......
.....imran khan if far too honest, principled and inflexible to succeed in this system......he was offered the pm'ship by musharraf.....he was offered a large number of seats, by nawaz sharif.....etc.......he refused.......
.......in a game dominated by crooks, one can only make alliances with crooks......and he refuses to do so.....
......secondly, i am quite disappointed by the people he has as his second tier......they are nobodies......they couldn't get elected dogcatcher......no charisma.....no political acumen......they are barely ever on tv......no one knows who they are......
.....people say he is too inflexible, and people leave his party......
......having said that, the guy is the most charismatic personality in south asia.....if not one of the most in the world.....honest to the core.....and now, personally, a polished politician......he is the moral conscious of pakistan......
he, himself, wins by record votes in his rural seat of mianwali......the surveys showed that his party was to be second in nwfp, if it hadn't boycotted.....
......i think in the next election, pml-n, pti, ji will participate in an alliance.....pml-n will sweep punjab, and imran and jamaat will win, jointly in nwfp......mqm will join them, as it always joins the winning party......
if the above happens, then imran's party will, finally get some seats.......and most of all, pakistan's politics will have, finally, shifted to the urbanites......
ppp, in my opinion, is on its last legs, if it doesn't massively reform.......pti will rise, but slowly, unless imran gets some good second tier people.......
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