Long March - A Long View Analysis

Tahmed, there was a movement for independence in India for several decades, they didn't teach it to you in school, but it existed.
You are partially right. Pakistanis got Pakistan without sacrifice.

Romair,

If a country self destructs, there is always someone, waiting in the wings. That someone has to be ruthless, fanatical & well organized.

The Nazis in Germany & the Bolsheviks in Russia, didnt start the revolutions--the peasants did.

So if it self destructs, who is it going to be?

#175 Posted by tahmed32 on March 15, 2009 9:07:11 am

you pakis keep parroting the line about religious leaders not winning seats but nobody is buying it...

ahmedis were declared non-muslim in bhutto's rule...

paki self-delusion meets reality...reality melts away(in paki minds)...

so pakiland gets props for trying to pull itself out of a ditch...the ditch it drove itself into?

prophetboy...seriously??

in nay case, prophetboy keeps telling us india is a caste ridden society and pakiland's not...so how did the non-caste ridden society of pakiland, blessed as it is with the greatest religion in the world, turn out this way...

anil #: "PML-N, and Sharif Pehalwans’ shenanigans and calls to rebel are making a mockery of the democratic institution...."

...people know nawaz sharif is an opportunist.....

what you are seeing now has nothing to do with nawaz sharif...this is a true blue civil society movement, led by lawyers and the media......and supported across the board, in pakistan's lower and middle class.....

....nawaz sharif will be dumped the moment he changes his stance from supporting a free judiciary......nawaz sharif is part of the same elite power grabbing crowd that musharraf and zardari belong to.....however, he seems to have learnt his lesson.....and he seems to have realized that pakistani politics is changing......

ppp has realized also.....as has the army.....zardari is the only one who is digging in his heels......the loyalist old ppp guard is dumping zardari......

zardari is basically a businessman....he is probably rapidly securing his off-shore accounts....once that is done, he will quitely step out of the picture.....

normally, under such situations, the ppp workers take on the pml workers......and vice-versa.....there are no ppp workers to be seen.......they are also against zardari and support this movement......

shankar #: "if "civil society" is fighting amongst themselves like this...maulana Urstruly's vision of the future looks terrifyingly possible....Those guys are waiting on the sidelines,chuckling, while you self destruct."

....maulana urstruly's version isn't going to happen.....no maulana's version is going to happen.....pakistan is not a maulana state....specifically sind and punjab....they are, historically, as anti-maulana as any area i have come across....

having said that, pakistan could still self-destruct.....not because of maulanas.....but because of the peasant vs. the affluent......pakistan is a hugely elitist society.....everyone you see on chowk, including me (and urstruly), is a part of this elitist crowd....we are, statistically part of the less than 1% of pakistan.....

....what you are seeing in pakistan, now, is genuine...it is the middle class waking up and fighting back......pakistani politics is moving from the elitist corrupt rural feudal and pir to the urban corrupt industrialist and businessman......

let's see where it settles down......in this whole scenario, the maulana is nowhere......he can barely win a seat.....(having said that the peasants could rise up, militantly, via a taliban type revolution.....but that will not be due to religion).......

shankar #174 on the contrary, far from self-destruct, Pakistan is emerging stronger than ever. and urstruly's vision of mullah-rule was possible only under a dictatorship - in elections pakistanis have routinely inflicted humiliating defeats to mullahs. so you should be celebrating this day with all Pakistanis.

PS: and to add icing on the cake, mukhataran mai (rape victim ridiculed by the scoundrel musharraf) got married yesterday.

But on a serious note...I hate to say it, but if "civil society" is fighting amongst themselves like this...maulana Urstruly's vision of the future looks terrifyingly possible.

Those guys are waiting on the sidelines,chuckling, while you self destruct.

Tahmed,

OK..much better..Jeeze, in 167 you sounded like a hindu, who, after taking a swig of cow urine...saying "at least I'm feeling sanctified!"...:))

shankar #171 OK, let me put it more accurately - both india and pakistan got freedom handed to them on a platter (as opposed, e.g., to the centuries long struggle the brits had to go through to get their freedomss, or the years/decades long struggles of numerous other nations like the US, france.

In India, to their great credit, the military generals stayed out of politics and, to their great credit, indian politicians took the freedom from the platter and rn with it. In pakistan, otoh, the politicans and later the military merely took the platter and kept it for themselves.

And today, Pakistanis are fighting to snatch back this freedom from the generals, waderas, ghoondas that hamidm admires so much.

tahmed,

""Pakistanis are getting freedom the old-fashioned way - they are earning it. Unlike you Indians who got it on a platter from the british.""

Woah! Wait a sec, we both inherited British institutions. To achieve a functional democracy in a country that has a relatively small population,that has 1 religion, a similar culture (to a large degree) in the entire country should be easy.

ie...easier than maintaining democracy in diverse nation, of a billion people, with every single religion & a largely varied culture.

No matter how flawed Indian democracy is...its much better than this bullshit..

Inheriting democracy from the British is the easy part. 61 yrs of Pakistani "maintenance" of democracy makes Indians feel they've achieved a miracle.

Re: # 154

You moron get an education - We have managed to run a sub-continent for 1000 years. Your way of thinking is so typical of ghulamzada and haramzadas who look towards roos and amrika to help them run their own country. This kind of inferiority complex is the fate of your kind - the chaprasees of roos and amrika. It is time to get rid of foreign chaprasees from our country - get lost and good riddance.

Pakistanis are caught between "idealism and realism" a quest for absolute rule of law. This dream cannot be achieved in a single day just like aparthied was not removed in a day. It will take years of public watch and scrutiny before we will finally have an idealist scenario. Till then we have to move very carefully ensuring that we do not bring the whole house down....

anil sahib: You obviously have a lot to learn about democracy.

#166 you wish.

Pakistanis are getting freedom the old-fashioned way - they are earning it. Unlike you Indians who got it on a platter from the british.

what a mess in Pakistan!
kamath