Save Pakistan!
Usama Khilji March 14, 2009
#186 Posted by _ar_jun82 on March 23, 2009 8:11:30 pm
yoo hoo prophetboy...spin this..quick..we'd like some entertainment..because pakis trying to hide from reality is always entertaining...
Pakistan militants strengthen in heartland
BAHAWALPUR, Pakistan – The compound bore no sign. Residents referred to it simply as the school for "jihadi fighters," speaking in awe of the expensive horses stabled within its high walls — and the extremists who rode them bareback in the dusty fields around it. In classrooms nearby, teachers drilled boys as young as 8 in an uncompromising brand of Islam that called for holy war against enemies of the faith. Sitting cross-legged on the floor of the Dar-ul-uloom Madina school, they rocked back and forth as they recited sections of the Quran, Islam's holy book.
Both facilities are run by an al-Qaida-linked terror network, Jaish-e-Mohammed, in the heart of Pakistan, hundreds of miles from the Afghan border that is the global focus of the fight against terrorism. Their existence raises questions about the government's pledge to crack down on terror groups accused of high-profile attacks in Pakistan and India, and ties to global terror plots.
Authorities say militant groups in Punjab are increasingly sending out fighters to Afghanistan and the border region, adding teeth to an insurgency spreading across Pakistan that has stirred fears about the country's stability and the safety of its nuclear weapons.
The horse-riding facility, discovered by The Associated Press during a visit to this impoverished region where miles of dusty, wind-swept desert spread out in all directions, had never before been seen by journalists.
There, would-be jihadi fighters practice martial arts, archery and horse-riding skills and get religious instruction, according to a former member of Jaish-e-Mohammed, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be identified by ex-comrades or authorities.
Horse-riding is considered by many extremists to be especially merit-worthy because the pursuit is referenced in Islamic teachings on jihad.
Pakistan has seen a string of attacks, including the ambush this month of Sri Lankan cricket players in the Punjab capital, Lahore, and a truce with extremists in Swat less than 100 miles from the capital, Islamabad, that have heightened alarm in Washington and other Western capitals that the country is slipping into chaos.
Amid the near daily onslaught of violence, the country's president and opposition leader have been locked in a bitter political dispute that has exposed the weakness of the civilian government less than a year after it took over following years of military rule by Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
Pakistan outlawed Jaish in 2001, but has done little to enforce the ban, partly out of fear of a backlash but also because it and other groups in Punjab were created by the powerful intelligence agencies as a proxy force in Afghanistan and Kashmir, a territory disputed with rival India.
"You can say Jaish is running its business as usual," said Mohammed Amir Rana, from Pakistan's Institute for Peace Studies, which tracks militant groups. "The military wants to keep alive its strategic options in Kashmir. The trouble is you cannot restrict the militants to one area. You cannot keep control of them."
Apart from the martial arts and horse riding center, Jaish militants openly operate two imposing boarding schools in Bahawalpur, a dusty town of 500,000 people. Food, lodging and tuition are free for their 500 students, paid for by donations from sympathizers across the country.
A top police officer said the schools and other hard-line establishments in the area were used to recruit teens and young men for jihadi activities in Pakistan's northwest or in Afghanistan. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
A guard wielding an automatic weapon stood at the gate of the Usman-o-Ali school and turned a visiting AP team away. But the head teacher at nearby Dar-ul-uloom Madina school allowed the group a tour and an interview.
Ataur Rehman said none of the students were allowed to be recruited for jihad while studying there, but added that he could not stop them joining up after they graduated.
"We have made it clear: our focus is teaching, teaching and teaching," he said in his damp threadbare office as a student served sweet, milky tea and biscuits. "But if someone does something independently, we cannot be held responsible."
In classrooms, students ranging in age from 8 to their mid-20s sat shoulder-to-shoulder along wooden planks as they chanted Quranic verses; one of the youngest boys broke off briefly from his studies and grinned at a visiting reporter.
In the kitchen, men stirred huge pots of chicken curry, washed potatoes and made fresh bread. Outside, workers mixed cement for a new cafeteria and dormitory.
The walled complex with the horse stables was on the outskirts of town, and from the road, laborers could be seen working on a building toward the rear of the compound.
Home to more than half of Pakistan's 160 million people, Punjab's large cities are centers of wealth and political power, but in towns like Bahawalpur, poverty is widespread.
Last year, the governor of Pakistan's border region warned that insurgent commanders and suicide bombers were increasingly coming from Punjab. Afghan police officers also say Punjabi fighters are becoming common there.
"Pakistani citizens, and especially Punjabis, are the Taliban trainers in the area for bomb-making," said Asadullah Sherzad, police chief in Afghanistan's insurgency-wracked Helmand province, adding there are around 100 Punjabis at any one time in that area of Afghanistan.
A police officer in Bahawalpur said Jaish members were not believed to be training with weapons in the town's schools and other facilities, adding that law enforcement agencies had infiltrated the group. He spoke on condition of anonymity because sections of the government and security agencies disagreed on the need to crack down on the group.
Jaish is believed to have been formed in 2000 by hard-line cleric Masood Azhar after he was freed from an Indian prison in exchange for passengers on a hijacked Indian Airlines flight that landed in Taliban-controlled southern Afghanistan the same year.
Azhar was born in Bahawalpur, though the government says his current whereabouts are not known. A small stall outside the Usman-o-Ali school sells his speeches and writings.
"When my brother's blood is shed in Afghanistan, when he is a victim of bombs, then does America expect us to offer it flowers?" he proclaims in a recording of an undated speech. "America you should listen... We will not let you live in peace so long as we are alive."
In 2007, British militant suspect Rashid Rauf was seized at the Usman-o-Ali school on suspicion of links to a failed plot to blow up jetliners over the Atlantic in 2007. Rauf, who escaped Pakistani custody and was reported to have been killed last year in a U.S. missile strike close to the border, is related by marriage to Azhar.
Jaish members and leaders are also suspected in the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi in 2002, and in a bombing the same year in the city that killed 11 French engineers.
Jaish and other groups still recruit in villages in southern Punjab, according to the ex-Jaish member and another former militant who fought in Afghanistan.
The Usman-o-Ali school "requires each student to attend some sort of jihad training or practice each year," the ex-Jaish operative said, adding that the hot months of June and July were the prime recruiting period.
____
Associated Press writers Asif Shahzad and Rahim Faiz contributed to this report from Bahawalpur.
Pakistan militants strengthen in heartland
BAHAWALPUR, Pakistan – The compound bore no sign. Residents referred to it simply as the school for "jihadi fighters," speaking in awe of the expensive horses stabled within its high walls — and the extremists who rode them bareback in the dusty fields around it. In classrooms nearby, teachers drilled boys as young as 8 in an uncompromising brand of Islam that called for holy war against enemies of the faith. Sitting cross-legged on the floor of the Dar-ul-uloom Madina school, they rocked back and forth as they recited sections of the Quran, Islam's holy book.
Both facilities are run by an al-Qaida-linked terror network, Jaish-e-Mohammed, in the heart of Pakistan, hundreds of miles from the Afghan border that is the global focus of the fight against terrorism. Their existence raises questions about the government's pledge to crack down on terror groups accused of high-profile attacks in Pakistan and India, and ties to global terror plots.
Authorities say militant groups in Punjab are increasingly sending out fighters to Afghanistan and the border region, adding teeth to an insurgency spreading across Pakistan that has stirred fears about the country's stability and the safety of its nuclear weapons.
The horse-riding facility, discovered by The Associated Press during a visit to this impoverished region where miles of dusty, wind-swept desert spread out in all directions, had never before been seen by journalists.
There, would-be jihadi fighters practice martial arts, archery and horse-riding skills and get religious instruction, according to a former member of Jaish-e-Mohammed, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be identified by ex-comrades or authorities.
Horse-riding is considered by many extremists to be especially merit-worthy because the pursuit is referenced in Islamic teachings on jihad.
Pakistan has seen a string of attacks, including the ambush this month of Sri Lankan cricket players in the Punjab capital, Lahore, and a truce with extremists in Swat less than 100 miles from the capital, Islamabad, that have heightened alarm in Washington and other Western capitals that the country is slipping into chaos.
Amid the near daily onslaught of violence, the country's president and opposition leader have been locked in a bitter political dispute that has exposed the weakness of the civilian government less than a year after it took over following years of military rule by Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
Pakistan outlawed Jaish in 2001, but has done little to enforce the ban, partly out of fear of a backlash but also because it and other groups in Punjab were created by the powerful intelligence agencies as a proxy force in Afghanistan and Kashmir, a territory disputed with rival India.
"You can say Jaish is running its business as usual," said Mohammed Amir Rana, from Pakistan's Institute for Peace Studies, which tracks militant groups. "The military wants to keep alive its strategic options in Kashmir. The trouble is you cannot restrict the militants to one area. You cannot keep control of them."
Apart from the martial arts and horse riding center, Jaish militants openly operate two imposing boarding schools in Bahawalpur, a dusty town of 500,000 people. Food, lodging and tuition are free for their 500 students, paid for by donations from sympathizers across the country.
A top police officer said the schools and other hard-line establishments in the area were used to recruit teens and young men for jihadi activities in Pakistan's northwest or in Afghanistan. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
A guard wielding an automatic weapon stood at the gate of the Usman-o-Ali school and turned a visiting AP team away. But the head teacher at nearby Dar-ul-uloom Madina school allowed the group a tour and an interview.
Ataur Rehman said none of the students were allowed to be recruited for jihad while studying there, but added that he could not stop them joining up after they graduated.
"We have made it clear: our focus is teaching, teaching and teaching," he said in his damp threadbare office as a student served sweet, milky tea and biscuits. "But if someone does something independently, we cannot be held responsible."
In classrooms, students ranging in age from 8 to their mid-20s sat shoulder-to-shoulder along wooden planks as they chanted Quranic verses; one of the youngest boys broke off briefly from his studies and grinned at a visiting reporter.
In the kitchen, men stirred huge pots of chicken curry, washed potatoes and made fresh bread. Outside, workers mixed cement for a new cafeteria and dormitory.
The walled complex with the horse stables was on the outskirts of town, and from the road, laborers could be seen working on a building toward the rear of the compound.
Home to more than half of Pakistan's 160 million people, Punjab's large cities are centers of wealth and political power, but in towns like Bahawalpur, poverty is widespread.
Last year, the governor of Pakistan's border region warned that insurgent commanders and suicide bombers were increasingly coming from Punjab. Afghan police officers also say Punjabi fighters are becoming common there.
"Pakistani citizens, and especially Punjabis, are the Taliban trainers in the area for bomb-making," said Asadullah Sherzad, police chief in Afghanistan's insurgency-wracked Helmand province, adding there are around 100 Punjabis at any one time in that area of Afghanistan.
A police officer in Bahawalpur said Jaish members were not believed to be training with weapons in the town's schools and other facilities, adding that law enforcement agencies had infiltrated the group. He spoke on condition of anonymity because sections of the government and security agencies disagreed on the need to crack down on the group.
Jaish is believed to have been formed in 2000 by hard-line cleric Masood Azhar after he was freed from an Indian prison in exchange for passengers on a hijacked Indian Airlines flight that landed in Taliban-controlled southern Afghanistan the same year.
Azhar was born in Bahawalpur, though the government says his current whereabouts are not known. A small stall outside the Usman-o-Ali school sells his speeches and writings.
"When my brother's blood is shed in Afghanistan, when he is a victim of bombs, then does America expect us to offer it flowers?" he proclaims in a recording of an undated speech. "America you should listen... We will not let you live in peace so long as we are alive."
In 2007, British militant suspect Rashid Rauf was seized at the Usman-o-Ali school on suspicion of links to a failed plot to blow up jetliners over the Atlantic in 2007. Rauf, who escaped Pakistani custody and was reported to have been killed last year in a U.S. missile strike close to the border, is related by marriage to Azhar.
Jaish members and leaders are also suspected in the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi in 2002, and in a bombing the same year in the city that killed 11 French engineers.
Jaish and other groups still recruit in villages in southern Punjab, according to the ex-Jaish member and another former militant who fought in Afghanistan.
The Usman-o-Ali school "requires each student to attend some sort of jihad training or practice each year," the ex-Jaish operative said, adding that the hot months of June and July were the prime recruiting period.
____
Associated Press writers Asif Shahzad and Rahim Faiz contributed to this report from Bahawalpur.
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#185 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 10:52:24 am
#184 iron_mask: maybe masadi considering us to be dumb phcucks (spelling?) is one of the good insights he comes up with. :-)
i'll check out his ilog later perhaps when i feel dumb phcuckier than usual.
i'll check out his ilog later perhaps when i feel dumb phcuckier than usual.
#184 Posted by iron_mask on March 23, 2009 10:27:51 am
Re: # 183 the problem TAhmed32 - is that MASADI considers most of us to dumb phcucks.
see his model on his ilog. he does not realise that many of us use additional filters to see thru the filters other are using (his middle level in the model).
Actually, MASADI is a great one to speed up a slow day - great for some good laughs - though occasionally there is a good insight
see his model on his ilog. he does not realise that many of us use additional filters to see thru the filters other are using (his middle level in the model).
Actually, MASADI is a great one to speed up a slow day - great for some good laughs - though occasionally there is a good insight
#183 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 10:12:33 am
Masadi: why do you have to respond with this gobbledigook about anarchy and guns from some clown who isnt even here ? Wait..dont tell me. I know. Because you dont have anything better to propose to replace capitalism other than anarchy!! duh!!
#182 Posted by masadi on March 23, 2009 10:04:16 am
Tahmed writes "Masadi: For the sake of argument, let us accept your premise that the capitalist system is collapsing. What do you think is going to emerge?"
Why ask me, ask Immanuel Wallerstein of the Ivy League:
------
*Mar. 15, 2009, Commentary No. 253
"Civil War in the United States?"
We are getting accustomed to all sorts of breakdowns of taboos. The world press
is full of discussion about whether it would be a good idea to
"nationalize" banks. None other than Alan Greenspan, disciple of the
superlibertarian prophet of pure market capitalism, Ayn Rand, has recently said
that we have to nationalize banks once every hundred years, and this may be that
moment. Conservative Republican Senator Lindsay Graham agreed with him. Left
Keynesian Alan Blinder discussed the pros and cons of this idea. And while he
thinks the cons are a bit bigger than the pros, he was willing to spend public
intellectual energy writing about this in the /New York Times/.
Well, after hearing nationalization proposals by arch-conservative notables,
we
are now hearing serious discussions about the possibilities of civil war in the
United States. Zbigniew Brzezinski, apostle of anti-Communist ideology and
President Carter's National Security Advisor, appeared on a morning
television talk show on February 17, and was asked to discuss his previous
mention of the possibility of class conflict in the United States in the wake of
the worldwide economic collapse.
Brzezinski said he was worried about it because of the prospect of
"millions and millions of unemployed people facing dire straits,"
people who have become aware "of this extraordinary wealth that was
transferred to a few individuals without historical precedent in America."
He reminded the listeners that, when there was a massive banking crisis in
1907, the great financier, J.P. Morgan, invited a group of wealthy financiers to
his home, locked them in his library, and wouldn't let them out until
they all kicked in money for a fund to stabilize the banks. Brzezinski said:
"Where is the monied class today? Why aren't they doing something: the
people who made billions?"
In the absence of their doing something on a voluntary basis, Brzezinski said,
"there's going to be growing conflict between the classes and if people
are unemployed and really hurting, hell, there could even be riots!"
Almost simultaneously, a European agency called LEAP/Europe that issues monthly
confidential Global Europe Anticipation Bulletins for its clients - politicians,
public servants, businessmen, and investors - devoted its February issue to
global geopolitical dislocation. The report did not paint a pretty picture. It
discussed the possibility of civil war in Europe, in the United States, and
Japan. It foresaw a "generalized stampede" that will lead to clashes,
semi-civil wars.
The experts have some advice: "If your country or region is a zone in
which there is a massive availability of guns, the best thing you can do...is to
leave the region, if that's possible." The only one of these countries
which meets the description of massively available guns is the United States.
The head of LEAP/Europe, Franck Biancheri, noted that "there are 200
million guns in circulation in the United States, and social violence is already
manifest via gangs." The experts who wrote the report asserted that there
is already an ongoing emigration of Americans
to Europe, because that is "where physical danger will remain
marginal."
If Brzezinski hopes for the emergence of another J.P. Morgan in the United
States to force sense upon the "monied" class, the LEAP/Europe report
sees a "last chance" in the April 2 London meeting of the G20,
provided the participants come forward with a "convincing and
audacious" plan.
These analyses are
not coming from left intellectuals or radical social
movements. They are the openly expressed fears of serious analysts who are part
of the existing Establishment in the United States and Europe. Verbal taboos are
broken only when such people are truly fearful. The point of breaking the taboos
is to try to bring about major rapid action - the equivalent of J.P. Morgan
locking the financiers in his home in 1907.
It was easier in 1907.
by Immanuel Wallerstein
[Copyright by Immanuel Wallerstein, distributed by Agence Global. For rights
and permissions, including translations and posting to non-commercial sites, and
contact: rights@agenceglobal.com, 1.336.686.9002 or 1.336.286.6606. Permission
is granted to download, forward electronically, or e-mail to others, provided
the essay remains intact and the copyright note is displayed. To contact author,
write: immanuel.wallerstein@yale.edu]
Why ask me, ask Immanuel Wallerstein of the Ivy League:
------
*Mar. 15, 2009, Commentary No. 253
"Civil War in the United States?"
We are getting accustomed to all sorts of breakdowns of taboos. The world press
is full of discussion about whether it would be a good idea to
"nationalize" banks. None other than Alan Greenspan, disciple of the
superlibertarian prophet of pure market capitalism, Ayn Rand, has recently said
that we have to nationalize banks once every hundred years, and this may be that
moment. Conservative Republican Senator Lindsay Graham agreed with him. Left
Keynesian Alan Blinder discussed the pros and cons of this idea. And while he
thinks the cons are a bit bigger than the pros, he was willing to spend public
intellectual energy writing about this in the /New York Times/.
Well, after hearing nationalization proposals by arch-conservative notables,
we
are now hearing serious discussions about the possibilities of civil war in the
United States. Zbigniew Brzezinski, apostle of anti-Communist ideology and
President Carter's National Security Advisor, appeared on a morning
television talk show on February 17, and was asked to discuss his previous
mention of the possibility of class conflict in the United States in the wake of
the worldwide economic collapse.
Brzezinski said he was worried about it because of the prospect of
"millions and millions of unemployed people facing dire straits,"
people who have become aware "of this extraordinary wealth that was
transferred to a few individuals without historical precedent in America."
He reminded the listeners that, when there was a massive banking crisis in
1907, the great financier, J.P. Morgan, invited a group of wealthy financiers to
his home, locked them in his library, and wouldn't let them out until
they all kicked in money for a fund to stabilize the banks. Brzezinski said:
"Where is the monied class today? Why aren't they doing something: the
people who made billions?"
In the absence of their doing something on a voluntary basis, Brzezinski said,
"there's going to be growing conflict between the classes and if people
are unemployed and really hurting, hell, there could even be riots!"
Almost simultaneously, a European agency called LEAP/Europe that issues monthly
confidential Global Europe Anticipation Bulletins for its clients - politicians,
public servants, businessmen, and investors - devoted its February issue to
global geopolitical dislocation. The report did not paint a pretty picture. It
discussed the possibility of civil war in Europe, in the United States, and
Japan. It foresaw a "generalized stampede" that will lead to clashes,
semi-civil wars.
The experts have some advice: "If your country or region is a zone in
which there is a massive availability of guns, the best thing you can do...is to
leave the region, if that's possible." The only one of these countries
which meets the description of massively available guns is the United States.
The head of LEAP/Europe, Franck Biancheri, noted that "there are 200
million guns in circulation in the United States, and social violence is already
manifest via gangs." The experts who wrote the report asserted that there
is already an ongoing emigration of Americans
to Europe, because that is "where physical danger will remain
marginal."
If Brzezinski hopes for the emergence of another J.P. Morgan in the United
States to force sense upon the "monied" class, the LEAP/Europe report
sees a "last chance" in the April 2 London meeting of the G20,
provided the participants come forward with a "convincing and
audacious" plan.
These analyses are
not coming from left intellectuals or radical social
movements. They are the openly expressed fears of serious analysts who are part
of the existing Establishment in the United States and Europe. Verbal taboos are
broken only when such people are truly fearful. The point of breaking the taboos
is to try to bring about major rapid action - the equivalent of J.P. Morgan
locking the financiers in his home in 1907.
It was easier in 1907.
by Immanuel Wallerstein
[Copyright by Immanuel Wallerstein, distributed by Agence Global. For rights
and permissions, including translations and posting to non-commercial sites, and
contact: rights@agenceglobal.com, 1.336.686.9002 or 1.336.286.6606. Permission
is granted to download, forward electronically, or e-mail to others, provided
the essay remains intact and the copyright note is displayed. To contact author,
write: immanuel.wallerstein@yale.edu]
#181 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 9:40:46 am
hamidm: ...and for financing the nazi two seater etc. you could use your 101K!!
#180 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 9:33:27 am
#178 hamidm: I am not talking about the out-of-reach-grapes being sour or sweet. I am merely directing your attention to the grapes you already have. otoh, if you really feel you are missing out on something, why dont you have just go ahead and buy yourself a nazi two-seater, have an affair, tool around RC or wherever it is they tool around in the rust belt, and get it over with?
PS: I am starting my own "Rehab Center for Guys Undergoing Mid-Life Crisis".
PS: I am starting my own "Rehab Center for Guys Undergoing Mid-Life Crisis".
#179 Posted by hamidm2 on March 23, 2009 9:18:47 am
Re: # 177
sattar mian,
:) ...... you are right, as usual
sattar mian,
:) ...... you are right, as usual
#178 Posted by hamidm2 on March 23, 2009 9:17:12 am
Re: # 176
tahmed mian,
...... i don't think the grapes are sour - i just can't get to them!
tahmed mian,
...... i don't think the grapes are sour - i just can't get to them!
#177 Posted by sattar2 on March 23, 2009 8:52:52 am
anil dude,
… let’s be honest about community colleges … attending one is like dating a floozy when you’ve fallen on hard times … you are down on luck and she happens to be around … there’s nothing wrong with it … just make sure you know when to bail out or she’ll ruin you forever … and when you do, don’t look back … and if asked, lie with a straight face and deny ever knowing her … sorry, but that’s just the way it is …
… and I wouldn’t take shit from hamidm over california finances. At least we have jesicca simpson to show for it and she didn’t need any bailout money … which is more than what detroit can say. And even if she did claim 1040 deductions for her breast implants, it was tax payer’s money well spent … I say she beats a ford f-150 hands down and we are proud of our accomplishments …
… besides, filing for bankruptcy is hip these days … it comes with an air of cool desperation (emphasis on cool) … there’s something to be said about having your shrink, your divorce lawyer, and now your creditor … all telling you, you are fucked. It gives you a lot to talk about at parties once you are adequately drunk … even as you try to figure out how the hell you’re gonne get home …
.. say hello to the floozy …
#176 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 8:39:23 am
#173 so, by your definition, you are a failure. stuck with the ole missus, rather than dashing around the Renaissance Center with a high school dropout trophy wife who was born when you were already well into your midlife crisis. That explains why you are so crabby. Read my inspirational thought for the day below which was meant for Mr. Masadi but could make you happier too.
#175 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 8:39:22 am
#173 so, by your definition, you are a failure. stuck with the ole missus, rather than dashing around the Renaissance Center with a high school dropout trophy wife who was born when you were already well into your midlife crisis. That explains why you are so crabby. Read my inspirational thought for the day below which was meant for Mr. Masadi but could make you happier too.
#173 Posted by hamidm2 on March 23, 2009 8:26:33 am
Re: # 171
tahmed,
...... you really are clueless ..... by definition a trophy wife is the third or fourth or fifth ...... and most successful people have trophy wives, or at least a mistress or two ...... the prophet (pbuhahc), jack welch and shahbaz sharif prove my point ...... i am envious! ......
tahmed,
...... you really are clueless ..... by definition a trophy wife is the third or fourth or fifth ...... and most successful people have trophy wives, or at least a mistress or two ...... the prophet (pbuhahc), jack welch and shahbaz sharif prove my point ...... i am envious! ......
#172 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 8:13:48 am
#171 hamidm: in other words, it is OK to be inspired by people in the west (if you dont want to be inspired by great Pakistanis like those who stood up to dictatorship, i.e.).
But at least be inspired by those who are a success in some meaningful way. As opposed to this fake Wall Street type success (and I am not saying that this "paindoo mindset" does not exist if you are a descendant of George Washington himself). The latter is a road to nowhere.
But at least be inspired by those who are a success in some meaningful way. As opposed to this fake Wall Street type success (and I am not saying that this "paindoo mindset" does not exist if you are a descendant of George Washington himself). The latter is a road to nowhere.
#171 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2009 8:07:38 am
hamidm #170 at least you agree that happiness has nothing to do with "success". That is a start.
Now how about that other component of "success", i.e. productivity? i.e. defined as leaving the world a little (even if a teeny-weeny bit) better, rather than merely leaving it with the most houses and boats and bank accounts and other toys to your name??? Is Madoff (as in "I Madoff with your pension") a success? At a business school reunion a couple of years ago in Ann Arbor I met another definition of succes - man came in an expensive car and trophy wife and told us about his connections to the governor. Turned out the trophy wife was his third one. And who really cares about his connections to the governor??? On the other hand another man was a college teacher in someplace I never heard off - but he probably has done more good than this Wall Street type "success".
Now how about that other component of "success", i.e. productivity? i.e. defined as leaving the world a little (even if a teeny-weeny bit) better, rather than merely leaving it with the most houses and boats and bank accounts and other toys to your name??? Is Madoff (as in "I Madoff with your pension") a success? At a business school reunion a couple of years ago in Ann Arbor I met another definition of succes - man came in an expensive car and trophy wife and told us about his connections to the governor. Turned out the trophy wife was his third one. And who really cares about his connections to the governor??? On the other hand another man was a college teacher in someplace I never heard off - but he probably has done more good than this Wall Street type "success".
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