Lessons From Another Lahore Tragedy

tahmad #: "quit peeing in your pants every time the mullah issues a threat, you coward. The beating of this poor girl has touched a raw nerve in every Pakistani except the beghairats."

....that is quite a statement from someone who is, safely, sitting in the comforts of the usa......i am sitting right in the middle of where the battle is going on....

so between the two of us, who is the coward?

why not put your money where your mouth is, and get involved in this war.....what is the point of pushing other people into wars, when you yourself will never get involved......

people like you are parasites on any society, they adapt.....you pushed american kids into wars in iraq and afghanistan, but would never volunteer yourselves, or your kids.......now you want pakistanis to fight this war, but will never participate in it yourself......

during the past few weeks, there has been a suicide bombing across the street from where our family house is.....there has been one, in the area, where my family was visiting, right after they left....and if there will be two a week, then the city will empty out......

trust me, it is long distance keyboard warriors like you, who are the cowards.......

as for the flogging of the girl, it did touch a raw nerve......if it touched one in you, then why not come to pakistan and do something about it......

the more the usa bombs pakistan and the more pakistan stays involved in this gwot, the stronger the taliban will get....there will be more violence, and more people will migrate out to join you......

bulleya: address the chowkies who are here, you coward. I am here. harish_hyd is here. yeh hamidm kahaan yaad aa gyaa??

is it true as harish hyd implies, e.g., that if a burglar entered your house you would hold down the missus and tell him to have a go at her but not to hurt you?

hamidm mian #: is your family staying put in pakistan, or are you assisting them with their immigration process.....

As I've said before, Captain Clueless is the sort of person who, if an attacker entered his house and threatened to molest the inmates, would request him to take control of the house but not harm anyone inside.

With soldiers like him, is it any wonder the Paki military has never won a war, not even against a ragtag outfit that the Taliban is, what to talk of against a regular army.

....the ultimate downfall of a country doesn't come through wars, and famines etc......as long as there is someone left to rebuild the country, and there is a system under which they can work, it survives and even prospers.....japan and germany went through a lot worse in ww II, than pakistan is going through today.....but they survived.....

the ultimate downfall comes, when the educated professionals and intellegensia - the groups through which the country competes in the int'l arena - decide to migrate out.....once that happens, the downfall is immediate.....

this is the reason that pakistan has survived, despite being threatened heavily by india etc.....however, things are different now.....

the suicide bombings are taking a heavy toll....i go around offices in pakistan, and people who had survived through the worst economic and social crises in pakistan, but never thought of leaving, are starting to plan....

their main concern is their children......they feel their children will eventually get hit.....after than gwot, or afghanistan will have no meaning......

i can make a bet that hamidm mian, for all his cheering of pushing pakistanis to fight taliban, is, secretly planning and assisting his remaining family members' exit from pakistan.....i know him,and his priorities far too well.....he will want pakistanis to fight through suicide bombs, but just not him and his near family......

....a drone attack, followed by suicide bombs, followed by drone attacks, in a never ending war will have one affect.....all the pakistanis who can leave pakistan (including hamidm mian's brothers and sisters) will leave....

that is the only way the taliban can move into pakistan.....and it is on the verge of happening......

pakistan's first and foremost priority should be to ensure suicide attacks come down to zero......fighting taliban etc. is a second priority.....fighting in usa's gwot should not be a priority at all........unless, of course, there are americans who feel the pain, and shed tears, everytime a suicide bomb explodes in pakistan and someone dies......

bulleya #251 quit peeing in your pants every time the mullah issues a threat, you coward. The beating of this poor girl has touched a raw nerve in every Pakistani except the beghairats.

Following is a gist of the future pakistan has in front of it, if it continues being a frontline ally of the usa:

"A Taliban commander on Sunday claimed responsibility for the suicide attack on the FC camp in Islamabad and promised that they would carry out two suicide attacks per week.

“We claim responsibility for the Islamabad suicide attack. It was in retaliation for a drone attack in Orakzai,� Taliban commander Hakimullah, a close aide of feared Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud, said.

“We have shown enough restraint,� he said. “Previously, we were striking once in three months, but from now onward we will go for at least two suicide attacks a week.� Hakimullah warned the government of more attacks if missile strikes by US drones continued in the tribal region. “In Islamabad we have been successful to hit our target and we will launch more attacks in retaliation for drone attacks,� he said." (www.jang.com.pk)

....pakistan will be bombed by us drones one day and then there will be suicide bombings....in both these cases, many innocent pakistanis will get killed.....and in both these cases, by entities, which are at war with each other (usa and taliban), but with whom pakistan does not want war....

......i have not met anyone in pakistan who is gung-ho about pakistan's actions against the taliban.....pakistanis realize that any sane nation would have gotten out of this fight, after the first suicide bombing (much like spain did).....

if the usa, itself, had two suicide bombings a week in new york, or detroit etc., it would have gotten out of afghanistan, long ago.....there would have been too much public pressure.....

......while the hatred against taliban is high, the hatred against the usa, in pakistan, is now sky high.....everyone from the liberals to the conservatives, are openly hateful of the usa.......

the feel the usa is not allowing pakistan to get out of this war....the usa will keep carrying out drone attacks, which will result in further suicide bombs......

i doubt anyone in the usa is concerned about pakistanis getting killed.....i am amazed how concerned the pakistani govt. is regarding saving a single american life.....

......i think at some point something is bound to give.....either the public pressure on the govt. will be so high that they will have to dump the usa.......or the suicide bombings will take such a toll, that all the educated professionals in pakistan, who can run banks, telcos, IT etc. will migrate out......

the later will leave behind a gap, which will, then be easily filled by the taliban.......

the usa policy of putting pressure on pakistan to destroy itself, by, "doing more" is, obviously counterproductive......it is making everyone very anti-usa....and will destablize pakistan further......

unless, of course, the ultimate aim of the usa is to destabilize pakistan....in which case it is working as planned......

.......interestingly, people have a respect-hate relationship with the taliban now.....the respect them for taking on the usa (which is hated even more than the taliban), and hate them for the suicide bombings, floggings etc......

another strange consensus emerging is that baitullah is sponsored by the americans (which is why, people think usa never goes after him) and is financed by india....

in any case, the pakistan govts' job should be to protect pakistanis.....not to protect americans.....unfortunately, no political leader, other than imran khan, has the guts to state this publicly......

#249 Posted by ahmedmadani on April 5, 2009 10:17:22 pm

now prophetboy will be along condemning altaf..

the ISI and the paki security establishment supporting the jihadis? he's fine with that...

THere only one quaid E Awam who is living, SES (Sher E Sindh) and that is honorable Altaf Hussainbhai who wants action not cheap words. Let Bha Sahib live 1000 years to save and serve people. Kindly read.
"demands public hanging of culprits




Monday, April 06, 2009
MQM observes black day against flogging of Swat girl; ‘we oppose Talibanisation not Pukhtoons’

By Fasahat Mohiuddin

KARACHI: Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) Quaid Altaf Hussain on Sunday demanded of President Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Interior Adviser Rehman Malik to publicly hang those who had flogged a young girl in Swat. He also demanded that they should be hanged.

He made this demand while delivering a telephonic address on Sunday at a massively-attended MQM women wing’s rally at the mausoleum of Quaid-i-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah. The Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) observed a peaceful black day all over the country, including Karachi, on Sunday, vehemently condemning the flogging of the young girl in Swat. The rally was the culminating event.

Protests were also held in other parts of the country, including Mirpurkhas, Hyderabad, Umerkot in Sindh and parts of the Punjab. Protests were also registered by MQM in parts of England and some states of the USA.

Lashing out at Ulema who had issued statements in support of flogging, Altaf said as per the Quranic verses, the girl could only be punished if four pious eyewitnesses, who prayed five times a day, were produced. He added if these people failed to produce such witnesses, then the people who had flogged the girl should be whipped publicly 80 times.

Altaf also lashed out at the Taliban and said they were defaming Islam. The MQM chief made it clear that he was not against the Pakhtuns but opposing the Talibanisation of the society, adding he did not accept the Shariah of the Taliban.

He referred to a report prepared by the MQM Rabita Committee, and disclosed that the incident had taken place after the federal and the NWFP governments entered into a ‘peace deal’ with the Taliban, adding the provincial government was denying this fact.

He said according to investigative reports, the marriage of the girl and the boy was forcibly solemnised and now the boy was under immense mental pressure. One of the brothers of the girl works in Saudi Arabia and the victim had done intermediate from a college in Mingora, he said.

Altaf disclosed the Taliban had been chasing both the boy and the girl. He demanded of the authorities concerned to save them from these elements. In a emotional tone, Altaf said this act of the Taliban had brought shame to the entire nation. He demanded that those responsible for this act be publicly flogged to death.

He further said he had been repeatedly cautioned about the danger posed by the Talibanisation in Pakistan, including Karachi, but the authorities had turned deaf ears to his warnings and they themselves saw how the girl was flogged.

Earlier, the MQM workers hoisted black flags, banners and posters all over the city, particularly in Saddar, Mazar-i-Quaid, MA Jinnah Road and at the party’s headquarters, Nine-Zero in Azizabad. A majority of the town administrations had also made special arrangements to observe the black day peacefully.

The banners read: “The whole nation is ashamed of the flogging of the nation’s daughter in the name of so-called Islam being spread by the Taliban and this heinous crime should not go unpunished.� Others asked how long “Eve’s daughters� will be tortured.

Youngsters belonging to the MQM tied black flags to motorcycles and wore armbands while riding around the city. The MQM workers, including women, kept visiting the party headquarters to condemn the flogging of the girl.

They chanted slogans against the Talibanisation and cursed the so-called custodians of Islam for committing this shameful act which, they said, was totally against the Shariah and the law of the land.

The MQM women’s wing also staged a demonstration at the Mazar of Quaid-i-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah and chanted slogans against the spread of the Talibanisation in the country.

They urged the chief justice of Pakistan, President Asif Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to provide speedy justice to the young girl. Women protesters also urged parliament to hold detailed deliberations on this issue so that incidents of subjecting women to torture and suppression in the name of Islam or Karo-Kari should be stopped once for all.

They demanded that the culprits who had flogged the girl be awarded exemplary punishment. The rally was also joined by various trade organisations and NGOs, as well as members of the general public. The protesters later released black balloons in the air."
"Long live MQM Supremo"

quick prophetboy....close your eyes....find a hole to bury your head in..reality ahead

‘Mehsud has pals in high places’

LAHORE: Baitullah Mehsud, the brazen Taliban chief based in Waziristan, has been able to escape several attempts to kill and capture him because he has friends in Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, according to a Newsweek report. An “increasingly-emboldened� Mehsud has claimed credit for several attacks in Pakistan and also threatening to attack the US. "Soon we will launch an attack in Washington that will amaze everyone in the world," he told the Associated Press last week. An unnamed Pakistani official told Newsweek that senior US officials had even shared with their counterparts in Islamabad “some intelligence indicating that renegade ISI elements helped Mehsud's group train for the December 2007 assassination of Pakistan's former prime minister Benazir Bhutto�. But despite that and Pakistan's purported knowledge of his whereabouts, “it's a puzzle why they're ignoring and avoiding any strike against him,� one tribal elder in the region told the magazine. “On several occasions over the past couple of years, security forces in Pakistan have launched operations to kill or capture him, and each time he has vanished without incident,� the magazine writes citing unnamed officials in Islamabad and Washington. “Mehsud's contacts, the theory goes, are tipping him off before Pakistani troops can pounce.� "Baitullah is very much mixed up in Afghanistan and with Al Qaeda," said one Afghan Taliban commander, adding that Mehsud was capable of shipping foreign fighters into Afghanistan "and even [farther] west". Washington does not take the threats seriously, according to the Newsweek, but also does not rule out Mehsud could be cooperating with Al Qaeda. daily times monitor

Mohammad enters his classroom


- What is your name? asked the teacher.

- Mohammad, answered the kid.

- Here we are in France , there is no Mohammad,from now on your name will be Jean-Francois, replied the teacher

In the evening, Mohamed returned home.

- The day went well, Mohammad? asked his mother.

- My name is not Mohammad,i am in France and my name is Jean-Francois

- Ah, are you ashamed with your name, are you trying to disown your Parents????? your heritage ????? Shame on you .......and ##$%$# she beats him


Then she called the father and %$%#$%^he beats him very hard



the next day Mohamed returned to school



When the teacher saw him with all the bruises she asked:


- What happened my little Jean-Francois.



-Well Miss , 2hours after becoming French I was attacked by two Arabs.

Oh look prophetboy....the new york times is in on the pndit hatred too...they're besmirching the reputation of the land of the pure as wind driven snow..

April 6, 2009
News Analysis
Time Is Short as U.S. Presses Pakistan, a Reluctant Ally

By JANE PERLEZ

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — President Obama’s strategy of offering Pakistan a partnership to defeat the insurgency here calls for a virtual remaking of this nation’s institutions and even of the national psyche, an ambitious agenda that Pakistan’s politicians and people appear unprepared to take up.

Even before the insurgency has been fully engaged, however, many Pakistanis have concluded that reaching an accommodation with the militants is preferable to fighting them. Some, including mid-ranking soldiers, choose to see the militants not as the enemy, but as fellow Muslims who are deserving of greater sympathy than are the American aims.

The distrust has been heightened by charges from American officials, including General Petraeus and Mr. Holbrooke, that Pakistan’s spy agency is still supporting the Islamic militants who pour over the border to fight American troops in Afghanistan.

The lack of trust was evident, military analysts said, in the American refusal to consider a request from the Pakistani military that it operate the remotely piloted aircraft the C.I.A. has been using to hit the militants in the tribal areas.

The Americans have been stingy on even the more basic tools for guerrilla warfare, like helicopter gunships and night-vision goggles, which Pakistan has requested for the past three years, Pakistani military officials say. There are still doubts that Washington will deliver such equipment speedily, they say.

Then there is India. Its growing presence in Afghanistan — the building of roads; the opening since 2001 of two consulates in two cities close to Pakistan — makes Pakistan believe it is being encircled, said Ishaq Khan Khakwani, a former senator from the Pakistan Muslim League-Q party.

The deep questioning about why the Pakistani Army should fight the Taliban reaches well down into the ranks of the soldiers and their families. Dissent on that goal has become increasingly prevalent among rank-and-file soldiers, and even in the officer corps, said Riffat Hussain, a professor of international relations at Quaid-i-Azam University here who also lectures to soldiers at the National Defense University.

There have been at least a half-dozen reported courts-martial of soldiers who refused to fight, and the real number was probably larger, Professor Hussain said.

In Jhelum, a town 100 miles south of Islamabad and a place with a proud military history, one village had shown in the boldest terms the anger about the military fighting Muslims on Pakistani soil, said Enver Baig, a former senator with the Pakistan Peoples Party, who considers himself a pro-American politician.

When the body of a soldier killed in the tribal areas was taken home to his family last year, the father refused to accept his son’s coffin, Mr. Baig said.

Instead, the father took off his shoe and used it to slap the army officer who had escorted the body.

A month later, when another soldier’s body was delivered to the same village, the army left the body on the village outskirts, Mr. Baig said.

Re: # 243 nkg:

- How did you arrive at the $300bn figure. There is no such proposal floated from any of the parties having interest in Kashmir.

- "muslas living in UP and Bihar? They are far worse than Pakistani muslas.....". I am no fan of UP/Bihar walas, but at least appreciate that nowadays they do indulge in frequent riots as in 70s and 80s. They are much quiter nowadays.

#241 Posted by major on April 5, 2009 7:51:15 pm



india isn't a factor in the paki civil war.. ok..I guess iran is then...after all, strategic depth, the strategy that led the paki state to create the jihadi monster, was aimed at iran...even now, the paki army isn't wholeheartedly taking on the talipakis because they want to use them against iran...

The ability of the paki mind to delude itself boggles..

Re: # 237
Pardesi...
India is doing that. The problem is, large number of Pakistani population supports jihadi militancy in J & K. So, the best solution from Pakistani establishment should be to convince India to hand over Kashmir to Pakistan. I would have advocated that (for some 300bn US$ sponsored by Saudis)- a win win for both India and Pakistan....but somehow, the way they started supporting Kashmiri jihadi movement (not much different from Talibs of Afghanistan) Islam/Korun-Public Donation Box-Mosque/Madressa based terrorist training Centres-Gulf money...this setup will not vanish overnight...demand may not stop at Kashmir alone...and what will you do with muslas living in UP and Bihar? They are far worse than Pakistani muslas.....

Re: # 222
devrandom...
Indian leaders (specialy that from Congress) were far worse than Paki leaders. At least Paki leaders were polished and wise. I don't see any Nehru like figure, who has destroyed a country for 3 generations and once people got rid of them, the country started prospering little bit....Pakistani political establishment got very less opportunity to administer Pakistan....