Lessons From Another Lahore Tragedy

Re: # 208

NKG,

Most of the Indian Muslims are not alike Pakistani muslims and have no use for violent Jehad . They may pay lip service to ummah thing in order to look muslim, but are more interested in keeping their indianness instead of arabic identity.........

Re: # 206
laddu....
there are enough psssive vermins living inside India...I don't think, external threat is that much dangerous....Mind that, India is still a 3rd world country...

hamid...
I don't see any involvement of Indian armed forces in Afghanistan. That will be very stupid and even the BJP Govt. will not do that. In case, the 3rd front comes to power, they will definitely not do anything, which is like of assisting USA and NATO and creates animosity with musla leaders in India (including Deobandis)...India may face far more trouble from muslas living inside India than those are living outside....

...in any case, GoI have to wait for the approval from Iran...much of the activity from Indian side depends upon Iran's green signal...

Re: # 205

hamidm,

I would have thought about extending all help were it not your delusional thinking that the best way to get rid of these vermins is to push them across into India.........

now, if you stop thinking about pushing these vermins and talk about extending help to exterminate them inside Pakistan only we all all ears and willing to do all that is required..........

laddu, jayp, arjun and other horrible hindoos ......

............ i want you guys to put your money where your mouth is! ........ get your bania government to send a 100,000 troops to afghanistan to help exterminate the vermin that threaten the world ......... i would support the indian airforce carrying out targeted attacks on muridke, mansoora and other dens in pakistan but that wouold start a larger war with india which is counter productive ....... it is time for the civilized world (and horrible hindoos) to help us ....... if not, you will be fighting these barbarians in the streets of panipat and madras !

..... i am not ready to give up on on kashmir yet, but if you help us i am willing to consider it ...... omg! in the last twenty four hours they have struck chakwal and islamabad killing more than fifty people - that is too close to home! ........ don't listen to romair - he is a fool who will one day die of suffocation in a container trying to flee to iran like those poor fifty plus bas**ds who died in quetta yesterday ....

..... please help us instead of lecturing us ! ....... help!

Romair,

If, as you say, civil society & institutions are slowly getting stronger, now is the time for continuous marches. The situation looks extremely unstable.

Just from judging responses of Pakistani, those who live in Pakistan are just as divided. Even the generally optimistic Ejaz Haider has said "we are up sh*tcreek without a paddle!" He was so disgusted that he really didnt give a damn about swearing.

I'm wondering how long it will take us Indians to realize, that if Pakistan falls, there will be a war & the whole Indo-Gangetic plain will be a wasteland.

Re: # 202

So, you mean I should be shouting -

"Jehadi zindabad!!"

so, asking Pakistanis to hate Jehadis who are killing Shias is "hate mantra"??

Wow!!!

Re: # 201
"Come on Pakis repeat with me.......Jehadi-kuttey hai hai!!!"

Legitimate struggle (JIHAD) is prescribed in the Qur'an and was practised by all of God's prophets, why are you afraid Laddu?

Sons of female dogs needn't be feared though.

Don't ask people to repeat your hate mantra.

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I am not a fan of AH but if MQM has stood up and spoken against the Taliban and resolves to fight them, my vote is with him. Just came back from outside and the city is dotted with black flags and banners condemning the flogging in Swat. And you are right about Police Training Centre, Saeedabad: one can actually see into the compound from the streets. And half the police is out there to escort/guard the bloody VIPs. If any suicide monkey decides to wreak havoc in Karachi it will be one hell of a disaster though I don't see Talibanisation yet taking roots in the sense that people have no sympathy for these goons. The educated, multi-ethnic, money-based social strata of Karachi also ensures that we would not accept any brand of Shariah in the city.

Jehadi-kuttey and their handlers should go to hell!!

Vaitarani (river of Hell) for these Jehadi-kuttas who kill innocent people........

and the worst form of Jahannum for those who donate and financially support these Jehadi-kuttas and their organizations.......

Death to those who spuport these Jehadi-kuttas!!:@:@:@:@

Interesting article from the Washington Post, on the legacy of the first Afghan war: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5339-2002Mar22?language=printer

Fro m U.S., the ABC's of Jihad
Violent Soviet-Era Textbooks Complicate Afghan Education Efforts

By Joe Stephens and David B. Ottaway
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 23, 2002; Page A01

In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation.

The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books, though the radical movement scratched out human faces in keeping with its strict fundamentalist code.

...What seemed like a good idea in the context of the Cold War is being criticized by humanitarian workers as a crude tool that steeped a generation in violence.

.....Published in the dominant Afghan languages of Dari and Pashtu, the textbooks were developed in the early 1980s under an AID grant to the University of Nebraska-Omaha and its Center for Afghanistan Studies. The agency spent $51 million on the university's education programs in Afghanistan from 1984 to 1994.

..... Children were taught to count with illustrations showing tanks, missiles and land mines, agency officials said. They acknowledged that at the time it also suited U.S. interests to stoke hatred of foreign invaders.

"I think we were perfectly happy to see these books trashing the Soviet Union," said Chris Brown, head of book revision for AID's Central Asia Task Force.

AID dropped funding of Afghan programs in 1994. But the textbooks continued to circulate in various versions, even after the Taliban seized power in 1996.

Officials said private humanitarian groups paid for continued reprintings during the Taliban years. Today, the books remain widely available in schools and shops, to the chagrin of international aid workers.

"The pictures [in] the texts are horrendous to school students, but the texts are even much worse," said Ahmad Fahim Hakim, an Afghan educator who is a program coordinator for Cooperation for Peace and Unity, a Pakistan-based nonprofit.

An aid worker in the region reviewed an unrevised 100-page book and counted 43 pages containing violent images or passages.

The military content was included to "stimulate resistance against invasion," explained Yaquib Roshan of Nebraska's Afghanistan center. "Even in January, the books were absolutely the same . . . pictures of bullets and Kalashnikovs and you name it." ......

Above the soldier is a verse from the Koran. Below is a Pashtu tribute to the mujaheddin, who are described as obedient to Allah. Such men will sacrifice their wealth and life itself to impose Islamic law on the government, the text says....."

tahmad #: "have a few choice words for the babus on Geo News commentators who ignore the fact that these drone attacks are taking out these animals."

...there is a resolution, a unanimous one, of the pakistan national assembly, against the drone attacks.......

....even the elected govt. of ppp - which is considered a strong us ally - and whose president is considered as much a usa man as musharraf, is unwilling to own the drone attacks......

......who exactly is this aryanna institute?.....a survey of an unknown institute, vs. a resolution of the complete elected body of the whole country.....

.....if there needs to be drone attacks anywhere, they should be done on pakistan's own terms, by the pakistan air force or army.......not by the usa.......

......these drone attacks kill a lot of innocent people also......there was one that killed 83 or so students......another attack killed a group of army soldiers........would be interested in your views on that......

.......a ttp leader just said recently, he will target islamabad, if drone attacks occur........a drone occurred yesterday, and, immediately, a suicide bombing in islamabad's central market (not to mention the one in miranshah)......

this maybe the kind of pakistan expats want, but i don't think this is what pakistanis living in pakistan want......drone attacks by the usa one day and suicide attacks by the ttp, the next......both entities hated by normal pakistanis, yet both killing pakistanis......


had there been 160 suicide attack in washington dc, i am sure the us voters would have put pressure on the govt. and the america would have been out of this gwot a long time ago......

the drone attacks will continue, as long as pakistan doesn't take action, the subsequent suicide bombings will continue, as will the related rise of ttp........and it will go on forever.......as there is no logical end in sight of this war.....and it will all continue to spill into pakistan.......

if these suicide attacks get worse, isb and lhr will empty out......all the professionals holding up paksitan's economy will migrate out.....after that, no amount of drone attacks will solve anything........

#195 Posted by bulleya on April 4, 2009 9:32:53 pm


tell the usa to stop drone attacks, and shoot them down if needed


yeah...go ahead...why dontcha?

fuzair #: "Very interesting survey: seems as if Pathans in FATA approve of the drone attacks and want the TTP out."

...one need not carry out a survey to figure out that people don't want ttp.....it is quite obvious they don't....take a look at the last election results in the region.....nwfp and sind, invariably, elect the most secular parties - ppp and anp in nwfp and ppp and mqm in sind......

......the only exception was musharraf's election......when mma won......

......this point isn't even debatable, that religious parties don't have electable power in pakistan......a party like the bjp could never be mainstream in pakistan........

ttp isn't even a normal religious party like mma.....infact it isn't even a party......it is a small movement to fight americans in afghanistan, which has spilled over in pakistan.......they could not win an election.......

however, they have one weapon, which is unbeatable....and that is the suicide bomber.......they, apparently, have an army of them....this is something no other political party has......

.......obviously the people in fata want the ttp out......and they want the writ of the govt. of pakistan to be established......as do the people of swat......but it will be impossible to do so, if pakistan is trying to support the usa's gwot and fighting the ttp at the same time......

.......as long as there are even 48% people who oppose drone attacks and as long as there are a fraction who are getting killed by them, organizations like the ttp will have a strong supply of militants and suicide bombers available to them......and there will be at least x% of pakistanis who will support their cause......

.......i don't think the ttp is more than 25,000 people.....barely enough to win one assembly seat.....but they are violent enough to create havoc......

........pakistan civil society has to take them on......however, i don't see how this can be done, if pakistan's actions against them are seen in alliance with the usa's action.......there are areas of the pakistan society, which hate the usa more than they hate ttp......

so what pakistan needs to do is to first: get out of gwot.......it is a lost cause......cut off all the logistical lines.......cut off all the bases......tell cia to get out of pakistan.....etc......tell the usa to stop drone attacks, and shoot them down if needed (if drones are needed then pakistan air force should launch them on its own terms; not usa)......

.....this will take away the oxygen on which ttp type organization survive.....i.e. hatred for the usa...after that, the ttp attacks in pakistan are bound to go down or disappear......and their support base will reduce......

at that time, any action by the ttp will be seen solely against pakistan......that is when pakistan will be able to isolate ttp......

otherwise, as long as it has even 10% support, it will survive.....what to talk of 48%.......

shankar #: "if he supported the US, the US would ensure that Pakistan becomes a very prosperous country. Musharraf made the right choice (both morally and politically), in my opinion.}}"

...i still think musharraf did the correct think....i am, totally, against the taliban.....i am, even more against what they did in afghanistan....and the fact that they were created by pakistan and imposed on afghanistan by pakistan, will always be one of the darkest moral chapters in the history of pakistan....

in a sense, one can say, pakistan is paying for its sins, now, of creating the taliban and imposing them on afghanistan.....

....i don't agree with the tactics the usa used in afghanisan.....i tink it could have gotten obl, without bombing a complete country into the stone age.....

i also don't support what pakistan has done since gwot started.....musharraf should have supported the usa upto a limit......he should have dumped the taliban, and should have allowed air space rights to the usa.......if the war was short, perhaps logistical rights......that is about it....

.....he should not have kept this going for seven years, when it was clear that usa did not know what it was doing.....and was losing the war......he should not have sent in the army like he did in fata, which was done around two years ago......he should not have picked up people and shipped them off to the usa, without a trial in pakistan.....

i still think the usa has done the correct thing in removing the taliban in afghanistan......i still think pakistan did the correct thing in dumping the taliban......what i don't agree with is what the usa (and pakistan) have done since.......

what to talk of supporting the usa action.......i supported musharraf, fully, when he carried out the coup......as did most of pakistan......

i supporte obama, today, fully, today.......if five years from now, he turns into hitler, then i will not support him......