The Gentle Power of the Sufi Tradition

Re #15 by Eklavya

[Given that sufi 'philosophy' remains rather childish and amateurish even today...]

For the middle-eastern mind, as well as for the Abrahamic mind - Sufi philosophy is quite sophisticated.

The essence of murad bhai's 'research' (as veeresh bhai so brilliantly put it) seems to be that

(1) alexander found sommething in Persia
(2) that thing wasn't in india

So persia influenced in India.


Somehow, in this process, Islam (which came MUCH later) took some credit for some 'spiritual core' quite indpendent of all this.

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What's all this? Could murad bhai fill in some gaps, please?

I am particularly interted in what, if anything, Murad bhai knows of Alexander's intereactions with Pakistani philosophers, indeed of Greek interactions with Pakistani/Indian philosophers before even Alexander, and then after alexander..

I just want to ask one question. Why Sufi influence in former, pre-partition India was limited to only the Muslim Majority states? In reality only two states Sindh and Punjab.
Sufi-ism flourished in Sindh and parts of Punjab because of the closeness to Iran and Afghanistan. Most of the Sufi is Sindh were from Iran and some were from Shia majority parts of Iraq.

There is no doubt that both Parsi(Zoroastrian)and Hindu religions are Aryan religions and share many traits.
I had posted lots of material on that already.

#19 Eklavya

[I am particularly interted in what, if anything, Murad bhai knows of Alexander's intereactions with Pakistani philosophers, indeed of Greek interactions with Pakistani/Indian philosophers before even Alexander, and then after alexander.. ]

The Pakistani/Indian philospher part was very funny.. :)

Re: # 15

Who said anything about Alexander in India?

Read The Land of the Great Sophy by Sir Roger Stephens about his time in Persia in the 4th century BC

HP saeen,

Why Sufi influence in former, pre-partition India was limited to only the Muslim Majority states?

Well Sind and Punjab were certainly the main sufi lands but certainly they had a fair amount of influence in Hindustani areas too. For eg Salim Chisti in Sikri (Agra), Nizamuddin Auliya (Delhi) and Moinuddin Chisti (Ajmer Sharif). Not very sure of Bengal or Deccan though.

Regards

Krishna,

.......no dhimmis or beheadings or raping slaves or keeping slaves in Sufism......

But I believe pederasty was rampant in Sufism. Maybe Kaal bhai can shed some light on this phenomenon.

Regards

majumdar dada

The basic methodology of this article seems to be: if there is nothing to explicitly contradict what I would like to say, I will state it as a fact.

In that spirit, sufism was the religion of pederasty. The cloak of sufism allowed gays to collect young boys in their homes and keep Islamic gaze away. That also neatly explains the constant sufi talk of erotic merging and the dandy device of whirling.

Why is that all that so true? because, that's at least a possibility and we lack sufficient evidence to fully contradict it.

In that spirit, sufism was the religion of pederasty

Do the residents of the NWFP etc, know this?

Re: # 25

eklavy saab,

when someone is a maulvi in our society saab he doesnot have to pretend saab

many of these "boys" meet this fate in ordinary masjids and madrassas by their maulvis saab and not by any sufis saab, although peon thinks sufis may be as laundey baaz as the ordinary maulvi in a madrassa saab

peon thinks you know very little about what you speak saab but wear the cloak of falsafa and difficult words that send people ghumman gairi which makes you look smart saab, lol

shoaib bhai and peon ji,

Be that as it may, the fastest way to bring peace to NWFP may indeed be establish sufism as the religion of pederasty.

Since whatever cannot be disproven is automatically true in Murad bhai's world, may be he write a few articles and help save many lives.

The Influence of Persia on India (and later Pakistan too) cannot be denied. Infact the word Hindu was originally a geographical term to describe Cyrus the Great's 19th province of the River Sindhu that Persians could not pronounce. Hence Sindhu became Hindu.

The Achemenid Empire was far more sophisticated in the 6th Century BC than any neighbour so Persians were the main purveyors of art, culture, music, architecture, irrigation, sciences and language to the rather crude Sultanate, Turk and Mughal rulers. There were more Persian Emirs in Aurangzeb's time than any others. They were Shia undoubtedly but most Mughal Emperors overlooked this as they were far too useful.

It is interesting that the early Persians described Pedarastry as a `Greek disease'. It was never a mark of faith but of decadance. However, the Sunni Mamluk slave kings were all pedarasts and believed that women were just for procreation and that true love could only be found in another man. We should not generalise.

Shoaib,

Do the residents of the NWFP etc, know this

Sufis were heavily into pederasty, but it does not imply the reverse- that all pederasts are sufis. You may want to search up on Sir Richard Burton's theory of the Sodatic Zone (SZ)ie regions were pederasty predominated. Many of the countries covered under the SZ were "Muslim lands" but equally many non Muslim lands -Mediterranean Europe, parts of China for eg were part of the SZ.

Regards

Re: # 28

eklavy saab every other man in nwfp is a laundey baaz saab

peon doesnot think they will take your advice saab :)

they think they want taliban now saab without knowing taliban may want to bad laundey baazi saab, lol

may be many in the taliban are laundey baaz too saab

Re: # 30

looks like majamidar saab has done research on laundey baaz of the world saab :)

maybe it is personal interest saab?