Karachi Could Bleed To Pakistan's Death

#528

$100 billions were/are loans. they are being paid back.
As I understand it, the $10 billion GWB gave you wasn't a loan. Also, this tranche of billions are not loans. Pakistan has bad countless billions postponed or forgiven whenever it came to the verge of bankruptcy. That's just from the US. That's not counting other sugar daddies like China , Saudi & other FoP.

Also, the "excuse" 7:1 is always given here by Pakistanis to justify military defeats. So, by that logic, we should get 7 times PER CAPITA aid, to be commisurate to the aid package Pakistan gets.

Its one thing being optimistic; you have the "Polyanna syndrome".

Re: # 530 most of us on chowk are jobless wonders, waiting for the pay day every month. While you are a business man...dont you have a business to run.

Or are you interested in becoming the Ahmed Challabi of Pakistan. May be thatis the intent here

Re: # 530 most of us on chowk are jobless wonders, waiting for the pay day every month. While you are a business man...dont you have a business to run.

Or are you interested in becoming the Ahmed Challabi of Pakistan. May be thatis the intent here

Re: # 530 most of us on chowk are jobless wonders, waiting for the pay day every month. While you are a business man...dont you have a business to run.

Or are you interested in becoming the Ahmed Challabi of Pakistan. May be thatis the intent here

Re: # 529

The World Bank defines extreme poverty as living with less than $1.25 a day and poverty as living on less than $2 a day.
In India, there are 280m under $1 a day, 450m under $1.25 a day and 850m under $2 a day. This is worse than most of sub-Saharan Africa.

Maoists are driven by not just extreme poverty but the growing rich-poor gap in India, the worst in South Asia.


Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 527

Aslaam aleiukum, brother

The poverty rate in India is 28% (ie. 280M people). Where did you come up with 850M people?
The Maoists don't participate in elections. They are attacking India's strong points - democracy and elections. Nobody has yet succeeded in that strategy.

Re: # 523 "the bania gene ?"

Well, the banias are way of ahead of you in shaking down the West for money...they are still getting a lot more of it than Pakistanis but they do it quietly. They have already received over $100b in the last few decades and recently asked the World Bank alone at the G20 meeting to increase it $15b a year.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 521

Your comment is a strange mix of false pride and ignorance...but it shouldn't be surprising. It's ignorance that is usually at the root of false pride. As I lecture to Pakistanis to warn them against excessive pessimism and self-loathing, I should warn you Indians about your excessive pride. It definitely doesn't suit India with its 850m poor people and about half its children chronically hungry. If you don't mend your ways and soon, the Maoists and other insurgents will destroy the smug little middle class Indians boasting about Shining India.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

hamidm #523 so what if the money ends up in general's accounts? generals are people too.

hamidm #523 so what if the money ends up in general's accounts? generals are people too.

hamidm2,

that is not bania gene, it is Bhikhari gene and it is
definitely not come from Grandpa Gopinath.

......... the bania gene ?

... sometimes i wonder if this taliban drama is being perpetuated to scare the world into handing over billions of dollars ...... five billion here and seven billion there, pretty soon you are talking real money ......... it will be interesting to see how much of this money ends up in swiss banks and buying bmws for army generals .........

...... it is hard to kill grandpa gopinath's bania genes ..

Re: # 417

Salim Katue,

Please stop using the Chauhan vaise.

Honestly, I don't hear many Pakis lamenting Kargil thats cause you do not know the truth about it. We lament it as it was backstabbing of the highest order ordered by muhajir mian musharraf after Atal "the pompous windbag" Vajpai had gone the extra mile for so called peace with the katuas (when they do not let us live in peace in India how will they do the same in Pak) and it lead to the death of about 534 Indian soldiers of the pak loss we do not know and care but one 1 paki Young Officer's nana petitioned the Indian Supreme Court and had his body exhumed and sent for burial in Pak. The articles in time and newsweek you can google the same were full of praise of the Indian valour and paki cowardice in some cases see that inset box of Time SA edition where it alleged some pak oaficers paid money to escape service in Kargil. Also remember your PM ran to the white house to save your trapped troops and last but not least this war was televised in Indian tv and the death of our troops due to the backstabbing was too much thus the lament read the book lament of a lost generation at the British library written by the sister of a brit YO who lost his mind in 1921 due to the slaughter of Ypres, Somme and Flanders in general and the loss of every single classmate of his batch in the same next do not suggest the brits lost WW I.

48 and 65 were draws according to you. Theek hai let us see if your country can survive another such draw.

Sanatani

Re: # 344

And Riaz Mian the Brahmins invented Sansrit, Sanskriti, Algebra, Trignometry, Geometry, they made the first important discoveries in Science, Medicine, Metallurgy, Astronomy and Philosophy the only area they did not do well was Engineering. Yes Brahminical pride has been occassionally harmful to India but are you muslai not the same about all these things and much worse egoisitc, narcisstic, egoistic and full of hate for all non muslai. What is Shikwa and Jawab-e-Shikwa all about. What is the koran but a manual of hate, rapine, murder and plunder of towards Pagans.

Abe apne gireban mein jhank aur tab baat kar.

Sanatani

Re: # 295

Guru Shreshtha Shri Guru Ravidass (who was by birth a charmakar) gave Deeksha to Mirabai (the daughter of the Rathores and Daughter-in-law of the Sisodias the Sun of the Hindus [does not transalte as well as Hinduon ke Surya]).

Guru Shiromani Shri 1007 Guru Nanak Dev ji also visited him and was influenced by him.

Bhagwan Shri Ram ate bers given by Sharbari.

WTF are you talking about???????

Also your countrymen use the term Shoodar, Choorha and Chamar frequently and among the many Hindu women whom the Muslim married all were from so called High castes and Maharani Durgavati who married into a Gond family a so called Scheduled Tribe is revered as an avtar of a Devi by the same people.

Go figure

Sanatani

Re: # 487

Masadi:

You like to trash almost everything you write about.

Why can you not accept that each society has dynamics between its “legally� armed (= military), and legally “unarmed� (=civilian) parts. A symbiotic relationship must develop across this boundary that separates the two.

History shows us that when and wherever the relationship is transactional (give and take), it is has a way of finding equilibrium for peace which results in prosperity.

The equilibrium cannot be attained if either institution in legally armed or legally unarmed part is weaker. When legally armed part is weaker then the nation-state can face existential threats from within or from outside. While weak legally unarmed part threatens because fear can be instilled in nation’s thinking that legally armed people are superior, and hence can rule unarmed parts of the society.

India developed equilibrium out different exigencies than Pakistan. Dominance in India would have destroyed the fabric of patched together legally unarmed diverse society.

Pakistan had no such exigency in Pakistan. First religion and after break of Bangladesh other factors, like 70% Punjabi civilians ensured a critical mass. Even today in India, its however defective democracy has moved to toward attaining the same patched together civilian society, but within democratic institutions.

Temptations are the same even today in Pakistan, for at least one outside observer to see. There is a sense to dominate to bring equilibrium, than to compromise and bring the equilibrium.

Arrival of Taliban is no different than arrival of army to dominate and attain equilibrium. Until there is a Punjabi Taliban, just there is Punjabi Army, the equilibrium cannot be achieved unless Taliban and Army cooperate, of civilian part shows strength based on outsiders support. It is also possible if, as in Iran, there is support among Taliban and civilian that too can force equilibrium.

Therefore, blaming outsiders is as foolish as burying head in the sand. Masadi as a state of mind commits both mistakes. An outsider can dominate this state of mind, only if there is a failure to recognize that this points to weakness in me also. This state of mind ignores it, because almost it is programmed in the genetic code, there is always something outside, which today can be from the U.S. to Army, tomorrow Taliban, or “extreme bigotry� of the outsider.

All of the above comes from the basic problem which is the imposition of belief system. This imposition simply divides. Unquestionable belief in redemption of people through social value of the belief system is so strong. Such beliefs always put “others� as outsiders by default.

There is no inclusivity. Instead there must be submission for it to work. There indeed are examples of functioning and stability through submission. There is very limited room for pluralism – whatever lip service if any there may be. This forces exclusions at all levels of society and nation-state. In Pakistan, Army, Lawyers, Mullahs, Lal Masjids etc. etc. and etc. are for exclusion of others. Even judiciary looks exclusive, executive behaves independent, and legislative is confused.

Again it is very different from India. In India, its defective democracy is for inclusion to build coalition now, and not exclusion, exclusion in India means disintegration. In many ways, Pakistan’s constant threat and noises on Kashmir have done a reactionary job to creating uniting power to avoid disintegration, and hence exclusion is unacceptable.

Here is an example, that however defective democracy in action to keep the country united and moving on with its disparity, dogmas and biases.

These situations are very different from S. Korea, post war Japan, Taiwan they were all ravaged and rebuilt. China, like India, is a different story altogether.