Arundhati ‘Pakistani’ and ‘Patriotic’ Right-wingers

anil:

Riaz sahib has provided an example of what I meant wrt rhetoric:

"Syed Ali Shah Geelani began his address with a recitation from the Qur'an. He then said what he has said before, on hundreds of occasions. The only way for the struggle to succeed, he said, was to turn to the Qur'an for guidance. He said Islam would guide the struggle and that it was a complete social and moral code that would govern the people of a free Kashmir. He said Pakistan had been created as the home of Islam, and that that goal should never be subverted. He said just as Pakistan belonged to Kashmir, Kashmir belonged to Pakistan. He said minority communities would have full rights and their places of worship would be safe. Each point he made was applauded.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani began his address with a recitation from the Qur'an. He then said what he has said before, on hundreds of occasions. The only way for the struggle to succeed, he said, was to turn to the Qur'an for guidance. He said Islam would guide the struggle and that it was a complete social and moral code that would govern the people of a free Kashmir. He said Pakistan had been created as the home of Islam, and that that goal should never be subverted. He said just as Pakistan belonged to Kashmir, Kashmir belonged to Pakistan. He said minority communities would have full rights and their places of worship would be safe. Each point he made was applauded.

I imagined myself standing in the heart of a Hindu nationalist rally being addressed by the Bharatiya Janata party's (BJP) LK Advani. Replace the word Islam with the word Hindutva, replace the word Pakistan with Hindustan, replace the green flags with saffron ones and we would have the BJP's nightmare vision of an ideal India."

Re: # 74

anil:

Quite enjoyable. Was with my daughter this time. Went all over the country. Thanks for asking.

Re: # 73

Dost sahib:

How was India? So very true summary of AR and PH.

anil#63:

The difference between Hoodbhoy and AR is the difference between substance and rhetoric: the former is strong in substance and weak in rhetoric while the latter is strong on rhetoric and weak on substance.

Good article Beena.

Sometimes my American friends ask me about the India-Pak issue and the cultural similarities/contrasts. I resort to saying that we WERE the same 60 years ago, but have grown apart phenomenally. The results of choosing a western style democracy and secularism vs a medieval theocratic culture are there to see. The people in both nations are essentially conservative and will resort to doing the same things, if given a chance, when it comes to treatment to daughters, crime, work ethics and corruption. The difference has been set in motion by what you correctly observe ....

"Another difference is that the family in Haryana who hanged their daughter and the man she eloped with (in their own home) will be charged, tried and probably punished. In Pakistan, the ostensibly Islamic Qisas and Diyat (retribution and blood money) laws imposed by a military dictator in the 1980s allow the murder victim’s family members to ‘forgive’ the perpetrators who are often their own relatives."

I am reminded of countless such murders and crimes that have resulted in conviction and punishment to the guilty in India in stark contrast to Pakistan. Social evils like dowry, harassment to dalits have been appropriately responded by framing laws. These laws over the years have a had a positive impact in these specific sectors. There in I think India is slowly making progress and striving for a better society. The fundamentalists of any shade know that and cannot resort to their ways without thinking of the legal consequences. It remains to be seen if the same laws providing for social justice and security to common people are applied with force against fundamentalists belonging to Maoists, Islamists etc too.

Adios

Let's trade!

We will give you Arundhati Roy!

You give us the Hoodbhoy and Beena Sarwar.

And remember, we won't allow any refunds or exchanges!

Re: # 69: "Would you then criticise Mr Hoodhboy for his moral inconsistency, because of his penetrating critique of Islamist influence in Pakistan, whilst shilling for Hindutva dogmatists in India? That is the inverted position that Arundhati Roy has spun for herself."

Charging Roy with moral inconsistency is absolutely baseless. Here is how she compares the Islamic fervor in Kashmir with Hindutva zeal in India:

"Syed Ali Shah Geelani began his address with a recitation from the Qur'an. He then said what he has said before, on hundreds of occasions. The only way for the struggle to succeed, he said, was to turn to the Qur'an for guidance. He said Islam would guide the struggle and that it was a complete social and moral code that would govern the people of a free Kashmir. He said Pakistan had been created as the home of Islam, and that that goal should never be subverted. He said just as Pakistan belonged to Kashmir, Kashmir belonged to Pakistan. He said minority communities would have full rights and their places of worship would be safe. Each point he made was applauded.

I imagined myself standing in the heart of a Hindu nationalist rally being addressed by the Bharatiya Janata party's (BJP) LK Advani. Replace the word Islam with the word Hindutva, replace the word Pakistan with Hindustan, replace the green flags with saffron ones and we would have the BJP's nightmare vision of an ideal India."
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

On the murky question of Arundhati's tacit and sometimes unambivalent justification for Islamist extremists and terrorists as part of the AmeriKKKa - Zion Nazi narrative of the Chomsky school, you can contrast this moral failure with someone mentioned earlier in this thread, Pervez Hoodhboy.

Whilst Mr Hoodhboy offers a rounded critique of the ideology and dogmatic implementation of Islamic nationalism and violence in Pakistan's power structure, he does not write apologia for Hindu extremism in India as a counterpoint. And yet, Roy sups with Hamid Gul and the Islamists, romanticising and offering apologia for their explicit acts. How is that unity and solidarity with the Pakistani Left?

Imagine Mr Hoodhboy 'contextualising' the explicit acts of Hindutvadi ideological violence as part of a meta-narrative - how could such a person sit down with a Leftist in India who confronts and opposes that ideology at home?

Would you then criticise Mr Hoodhboy for his moral inconsistency, because of his penetrating critique of Islamist influence in Pakistan, whilst shilling for Hindutva dogmatists in India? That is the inverted position that Arundhati Roy has spun for herself.

Re: # 62

Anil, I still think Cohen sums up the Indian attitudes toward Pak well in the following words: "Indians do not know whether they want to play cricket and trade with Pakistan, or whether they want to destroy it."

I believe there is a great of internal tension and ambivalence about Pak in India.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 66: "Next time you organize a function of your group and invite good speakers please let me know."

Anil,
Sure. It'll be my pleasure to have you participate.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 64

Riaz:

Your statement is true, but at times people act and others react only for the sake of it or grabbing attention. AR has done that, Indian Taliban is trying to do it. The latter is more dangerous in India, than Pakistani Taliban in Pakistan.

Next time you organize a function of your group and invite good speakers please let me know. My email is anilkapuria@yahoo.com.

Anil,

Here's an example of how Roy challenges Indians to think about the real issues faced by the vast majority of Indians:

"On a day when the newspapers were full of moving obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and the staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said "Hungry, kya?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't that war. That one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic cities."
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 63
Anil,
It is not unusual to dismiss someone who you dislike because she challenges you to think differently from the conventional wisdom and media propaganda in India about Kashmir, Pakistan and terrorism. Many Pakistanis dismiss Hoodbhoy just as you are dismissing Roy.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 61

Riaz:

I have read Hoodbhoy, and am very impressed. AR on the other hand is no where near him. She is more of a rabble rouser. Please just look at the words you quoted. Hoodbhoy on the other hand has genuine issues that he has taken up.

Tahmed sahib and Riaz:

" tahmed: "what has 1000 years of servitude to muslims done to you hindus??"

Riaz: I think you've raised a good question..."

The above indicate that there is a strong lingering attitude among Pakistanis which reinforces the message in the above dialog between two knowledgeable Pakistanis(Americans).

Indian identity is precisely getting defined in the fashion (Tendulkar, Bollywood etc.) rather than "To or not to be anti-Pakistan". There is lingering nostalgia, ignorance and may even be a feeling of loss among grand children of the families that were affected by the partition.

Greater the distance from the border, lesser are the feelings, so that Winning Pakistani teams victory round can receive a standing ovation in Chennai.

Re: # 55

Anil,
As I said before, I see Roy as a Cassandra...you don't have to believe or agree with everything she says. But every society needs someone like her to confront realities that would otherwise be swept under the rug.

I think you should also read Pervez Hoodbhoy of Pakistan who I also regard as a Cassandra, not unlike Roy. I invited him for an alumni event in Silicon Valley in 2007 and many of my Indian friends were very surprised to hear and see someone from Pakistan who is so brutally honest and highly critical of Pakistan's government and society.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide